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notredame_999
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Is it a sin to go on a trip with my girlfriend and get a hotel room with her if we sleep in seperate beds? I guess I could be giving the perception of a sin so that would be sin.
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Bookcat
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Frankr409
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Sounds like a near occasion of sin. I always ask myself the question “Is it worth going to hell for …” I usually have my answer pretty quickly thereafter.
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MarianD
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I fail to see how this is sinful so long as you aren’t throwing yourself into temptation. I doubt you are. You probably just want her to tag alone for the fun, and the fact that you’re getting different rooms just shows you aren’t subconsciously thinking about doing something wrong. I say go ahead.
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Bookcat
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Do not go there…
Not the way for a Christian to travel.
Not the way for a Christian to travel.
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Rascalking
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What about different rooms? Have you thought about that?
(I’m just throwing it out there, I’m not saying anything about it.)
(I’m just throwing it out there, I’m not saying anything about it.)
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notredame_999
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its not an occasion of sin. we are both traditional catholics who believe in the sacrament of marriage and want to live a life in accordance with the church teachings. The only problem I have with it is that people may assume we are having sex and that would give a false impression. Like if my little brother found out, he may think his older brother condones pre-marital sex (which I don’t). Other than that, I would like to do it.
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m_crane
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You putting yourself and your girlfriend in a near occasion of sin and and possibly creating scandal for others
Try to find cheaper lodgings and get seperate rooms.
Save sleeping in the same room as part of your gift to your future spouse.
God bless.
Try to find cheaper lodgings and get seperate rooms.
Save sleeping in the same room as part of your gift to your future spouse.
God bless.
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Rascalking
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You can’t control what people assume. Why bother worrying about it?
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Frankr409
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Sounds like you have made up your mind about what you want to do. Sorry that other traditional Catholics do not see it the same way, but that’s how it goes.
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notredame_999
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alright how do you feel about getting adjacent rooms next door to eachother?
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Frankr409
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Seperate rooms for an un-married couple sounds like the right way to go my friend. I’m not trying to bust your chops, but like you said, what message does it send if you are sharing a room with your g/f?
Bless you for asking the question in the first place, it sounds like you have had the right plan all along.
By the way, are you from Notre Dame U? You are just down the road from me by about 3 miles if you are… just curious.
Bless you for asking the question in the first place, it sounds like you have had the right plan all along.
By the way, are you from Notre Dame U? You are just down the road from me by about 3 miles if you are… just curious.
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MarianD
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Since when does the sin lie in other’s perception? If you aren’t deliberately putting yourself or your girlfriend in a state of temptation and if you’re just bringing her along so you two can have good, clean fun on your trip, then there is no sin. What others THINK is happening doesn’t matter because you, your girlfriend, and God KNOW what’s happening.
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Rascalking
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VonDerTann
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This exact same question was asked a few weeks ago. I ill give the same answer now that I gave then:
Don’t go. Not separate rooms. Certainly not separate beds in the same room.
Why not?
Don’t go. Not separate rooms. Certainly not separate beds in the same room.
Why not?
- Because you’re playing married. IMHO the first time you should ever take an overnight trip alone with a member of the opposite sex is, and should be, your honeymoon. Period.
- “It’s no occasion of sin, because we’re both conservative Catholics?” But you clearly like her – a lot. Take a guy and a girl. They like each other a lot. Put them in a vacation setting where their guard gets let down and they no real time constraints. They have a fun day out…which becomes a fun evening…and someone gets wine…and you put a movie on in one of the 2 rooms…and you have wine…and watch a movie…and drink more wine…and guess what can happen. It’s happened to stronger people than you, OP. WILL it happen? Who knows? Can it happen? Absolutely. Why tempt it?
- It gives scandal, even in minor ways, and leads to a general perception of lack of morality in our world. If I see a guy and a girl in a hotel elevator, and they get off at the floor before me and walk down the corridor holding hands – and they’re not wearing wedding rings – I will assume certain behavior. Worse, you send the tacit signal that you don’t care about how your actions are perceived…and you should care, about your reputation and hers as well, b/c once those are gone they are VERY hard to recover.
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MarianD
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By that logic, college is immoral (with co-ed dorms) and school trips are immoral. I guess I sinned by going to Brown University for 3 days with a team of 10 guys and girls from my school this weekend.
How weak-willed do you think the OP is? All humans have self-control, and that’s not even including the extra “boost” that prayer gives you to control yourself.
And a lot of things CAN happen whenever we walk out of the door. I CAN decide to commit fornication with a girl who likes me at school. I CAN get angry enough to fight someone when they cut me in line at the supermarket. I CAN steal something from the mall because I want it and can’t pay for it. But I DON’T because I have self-control. And just because the opportunity and the slight temptation is there whenever I leave my house doesn’t mean I should just place myself under house arrest.
The opinions of others doesn’t matter, and “perception” of a sin doesn’t mean that something is a sin.
As far as I’m concerned, the Church has never said that the criteria for a sin involves that others think it’s a sin or that a sin can result from the situation. The possibility of temptation shouldn’t prevent the OP from bringing his girlfriend along. There’s a possibility of temptation whenever I go to school. Does that mean I should just ditch school or apply for an (overpriced) all-boys school? The Church tells us to avoid the near-occasion of sin, and unless the OP is a male nymphomaniac, then, by just being with his girlfriend, he won’t be in one of those near-occasions.
I wonder how you guys’ dating lives were. Did you ever take your wives/husbands (at the time girlfriends/boyfriends) on one-on-one dates/fun trips and experiences at all? If not, that was probably a very boring experience.
To the OP: Just go on your trip and bring your girlfriend. Separate beds is good enough, but separate rooms is better. Don’t let a couple of people with some extreme views on dating get in the way of you taking your girlfriend out to have a great time. She deserves it, and it’s healthy for your relationship.
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VonDerTann
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MarianD:
The OP’s gf “deserves” an overnight trip? What planet are you on? Would you like to give them the wine and condoms, while you’re at it?
You write:
“By that logic, college is immoral (with co-ed dorms) and school trips are immoral. I guess I sinned by going to Brown University for 3 days with a team of 10 guys and girls from my school this weekend.”
–Don’t make up strawmen, and don’t mix apples and oranges either. You and I both know there is a huge difference between living in proximity to the opposite gender, and taking an overnight trip with one person with whom you are in a committed relationship.
“How weak-willed do you think the OP is? All humans have self-control, and that’s not even including the extra “boost” that prayer gives you to control yourself.”
–And just how strong-willed do you think the average young person is, these days, surrounded by bombardments of sex in the media, freely-available booze and drugs, and the "anything goes/“if-it-feels-goodp-do-it” mantra pounded at yog people today? Given the exploding percentages of divorce, teen suicide, etc., compared to 20-40 years ago, I’d say not very.
–All humans have self-control…which is remarkably effective when you’re not in the same bedroom with your girlfriend late at night. Is his prayer really, REALLY going to give him a great boost when she surprises him with a nice red negligee? Come on, pal, there’s prayer, and there’s willful blindness to the temptations that “overnight/same bed” can lead to.
–If you read this board, it is FILLED with lots of well-intentioned Catholics…all of whom struggle with temptation, and often fail at their struggles (I know I do. We all do). What I found rather noteworthy was the utterly cavalier response of “we’re good Catholics so we’d never be tempted!” Pride goes before the fall.
“The opinions of others doesn’t matter, and “perception” of a sin doesn’t mean that something is a sin.”
–Yes, opinions of others should and do matter, to the extent we are all role models for everyone else we ever meet in life. Perception that I am sinning impairs my ability to serve as that.
“I wonder how you guys’ dating lives were. Did you ever take your wives/husbands (at the time girlfriends/boyfriends) on one-on-one dates/fun trips and experiences at all? If not, that was probably a very boring experience.”
–Insulting me does not make you an authority on anything…but by response, I’d say my ten years of happy marriage (which included no overnight trips before our honeymoon) more than trumps your insults. Grow up, kid.
–One on one dates and “overnight in the same bedroom” are 1000% different, and you darn well know it.
TO THE OP: MarianD is absolutely no authority as to his claptrap of “go and have fun.” You asked if your plan was a sin. I respond that it is, and is also utterly foolish.
The OP’s gf “deserves” an overnight trip? What planet are you on? Would you like to give them the wine and condoms, while you’re at it?
You write:
“By that logic, college is immoral (with co-ed dorms) and school trips are immoral. I guess I sinned by going to Brown University for 3 days with a team of 10 guys and girls from my school this weekend.”
–Don’t make up strawmen, and don’t mix apples and oranges either. You and I both know there is a huge difference between living in proximity to the opposite gender, and taking an overnight trip with one person with whom you are in a committed relationship.
“How weak-willed do you think the OP is? All humans have self-control, and that’s not even including the extra “boost” that prayer gives you to control yourself.”
–And just how strong-willed do you think the average young person is, these days, surrounded by bombardments of sex in the media, freely-available booze and drugs, and the "anything goes/“if-it-feels-goodp-do-it” mantra pounded at yog people today? Given the exploding percentages of divorce, teen suicide, etc., compared to 20-40 years ago, I’d say not very.
–All humans have self-control…which is remarkably effective when you’re not in the same bedroom with your girlfriend late at night. Is his prayer really, REALLY going to give him a great boost when she surprises him with a nice red negligee? Come on, pal, there’s prayer, and there’s willful blindness to the temptations that “overnight/same bed” can lead to.
–If you read this board, it is FILLED with lots of well-intentioned Catholics…all of whom struggle with temptation, and often fail at their struggles (I know I do. We all do). What I found rather noteworthy was the utterly cavalier response of “we’re good Catholics so we’d never be tempted!” Pride goes before the fall.
“The opinions of others doesn’t matter, and “perception” of a sin doesn’t mean that something is a sin.”
–Yes, opinions of others should and do matter, to the extent we are all role models for everyone else we ever meet in life. Perception that I am sinning impairs my ability to serve as that.
“I wonder how you guys’ dating lives were. Did you ever take your wives/husbands (at the time girlfriends/boyfriends) on one-on-one dates/fun trips and experiences at all? If not, that was probably a very boring experience.”
–Insulting me does not make you an authority on anything…but by response, I’d say my ten years of happy marriage (which included no overnight trips before our honeymoon) more than trumps your insults. Grow up, kid.
–One on one dates and “overnight in the same bedroom” are 1000% different, and you darn well know it.
TO THE OP: MarianD is absolutely no authority as to his claptrap of “go and have fun.” You asked if your plan was a sin. I respond that it is, and is also utterly foolish.
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mjs1987
Guest
How about having problems with future wife/husband? I know if a girl told me that she spent a night alone in a hotel room, I would assume she had sex with the guy. Maybe that is a reason why the OP shouldnt share the same room. It can make a future spouse feel bad if it comes out that the other wasnt truthful about their past. Trust me, this type of thing will come out eventually.
In the bigger picture, the message you send to people further hardens their hearts to Christ. It furthers their belief that religious people are hypocrites. Most non-religious will assume there is sex going on. If it becomes commonplace for Catholics to share rooms with the opposite sex while unmarried, people will start to think Catholics are even bigger hypocrites than they originally thought. Even if I knew that I wouldnt have sex, it sends off a message that you are having sex.
It also shows a casual attitude towards temptation. It is almost like daring the devil to do something. It is also a mask. It gives you every reason to have sex. You can have sex but still claim to everyone that nothing happened.
In the bigger picture, the message you send to people further hardens their hearts to Christ. It furthers their belief that religious people are hypocrites. Most non-religious will assume there is sex going on. If it becomes commonplace for Catholics to share rooms with the opposite sex while unmarried, people will start to think Catholics are even bigger hypocrites than they originally thought. Even if I knew that I wouldnt have sex, it sends off a message that you are having sex.
It also shows a casual attitude towards temptation. It is almost like daring the devil to do something. It is also a mask. It gives you every reason to have sex. You can have sex but still claim to everyone that nothing happened.
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MarianD
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What? His girlfriend’s deserving to have fun on a trip with her boyfriend means illicit sex? How did we get to that conclusion?
Actually, not at all. Someone of the opposite gender whom you’re attracted to would give the same amount of temptation as a girlfriend/boyfriend would. Are you trying to imply that a girlfriend is the only female a man is attracted to?
And how is this a strawman again? How is this comparing apples to oranges? Both are clear examples of what you’re saying applied to different situations.
You’re kidding me if you’re really thinking his girlfriend will try to force sex on him. She respects herself and him, and she is Catholic as well. She won’t do anything of the sort.
Who said he’ll never be tempted? I simply said that taking her on a trip won’t cause any more temptation than what is already there. So why should she be excluded from a fun trip when the temptation will always be there? Even if he ISN’T in a relationship, the temptation will still be there. So, like I said before, the only way one can not be tempted is to live in a padded room, and God doesn’t want that.
Because everyone looks up to a 20-something year old man as a spiritual role model, and if that 20-something year old, God-forbid, is laughing with his girlfriend, then he must be sinning and whoever takes him as his/her role model will do the same.
There’s a hole somewhere in that logic.
It’s interesting to see how defensive you got at that “insult”. Getting insulted at a mere question really brings up questions of how certain you are. But that’s not the point.
And that’s why the OP suggested different rooms.
Because your authority is more than mine? If I’m not mistaken, you’re neither a priest nor a Bishop nor the Pope. Having fun is not a sin, nor is the OP’s plan to bring his girlfriend on a trip. The only unwise thing about it would be in the cost, unless his girlfriend plans to pay for most of her expenses.
Again, to the OP, having fun is not a sin. And “fun” doesn’t mean wanton sex, not sure how we came to that conclusion. “Fun” means bringing your girlfriend on a trip and having a good time with her. Laughing, taking her places, buying her things, talking with her, etc. It’s basically one long date, and don’t be discouraged because people are saying you’e sinning by somehow opening up the possibility to sin (that alone makes no sense). It’s not like your attraction to your girlfriend suddenly reaches uncontrollable levels when you leave your town with her.
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Reservoir_Dog
Guest
Did the OP say how old he was?
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