Going to Church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going into a garage makes you a car

[pathfinder7]

I knew when i posted this that i would be judged as being too critical of others and not looking at myself.

I have looked at myself until i am blue in the face. Knowing myself (and none of us ever really, totally knows ourselves except God)… is not the issue. I am talkign about what to make of people in my life who… don’t walk the talk. All i am saying is that i don’t GET it… That’s it… don’t read more into this than is actually there.

Maybe if one sees hypocracy in others’ posts… it is because they see hypocracy in themselves??? I don’t know. It’s just a thought.

OK… now you can pounce on me…

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

wow… this is strange to me. You don’t like going to Church? going to mass is the highlight of my day… I’ve been told that all the angels and saints participate in the mass and i believe that…

I am just wondering waht your spiritual background is? That may help me to understand better where you are at… thanks…

I don’t like church either. I feel so vacant when the priest starts talking, but when I’m in there, ignoring the crying children, ignoring my fellow teens texting, and ignoring my brother making weird noises, I feel at peace… which is strange because I feel that way 24/7…

I guess I see no point to church if it’s only the priest doing the talking. Church is suppose to be about talking and communicating to one another about God and our Catholic faith, not sitting, standing, kneeling, and nodding.

 

[Eucharisted]

I don’t like church either. I feel so vacant when the priest starts talking, but when I’m in there, ignoring the crying children, ignoring my fellow teens texting, and ignoring my brother making weird noises, I feel at peace… which is strange because I feel that way 24/7…

I guess I see no point to church if it’s only the priest doing the talking. Church is suppose to be about talking and communicating to one another about God and our Catholic faith, not sitting, standing, kneeling, and nodding.

Church is about celebrating the sacraments, actually. The different positions of prayer (siting, standing, etc.) are meant to orient you, body and soul, to the Lord.

 

[Joysong]

Pathfinder7:

I have looked at myself until i am blue in the face. Knowing myself (and none of us ever really, totally knows ourselves except God)… is not the issue.
I am talking about what to make of people in my life who… don’t walk the talk.

I don’t know who you directed this to, but it is worth considering what others have been able to discern in you that you cannot see by looking at yourself. This often calls for trust in someone who is professionally trained to pick up your vibes and give you feedback that you cannot see. You cannot even see how others such as myself have picked up your user names. Each of us is very unique and have personalities and traits that others can spot quickly. This is why I have confidence that you can be guided by someone if you will humbly accept their direction. There is no shame in admitting we have weak spots that someone else can make whole.

As for the second sentence in the above quote, we are never able to change others, only ourselves, and you have no control over why one does or does not “walk the talk.” I offer you the serenity prayer as a starting point.

 

[pathfinder7]

I don’t like church either. I feel so vacant when the priest starts talking, but when I’m in there, ignoring the crying children, ignoring my fellow teens texting, and ignoring my brother making weird noises, I feel at peace… which is strange because I feel that way 24/7…

I guess I see no point to church if it’s only the priest doing the talking. Church is suppose to be about talking and communicating to one another about God and our Catholic faith, not sitting, standing, kneeling, and nodding.

Well… i don’t know waht to say (But since when did that stop me? )

I guess i can kinda relate because years ago, when i was 1st starting to come back to Jesus and the church… i felt kind of uncomfortable myself, for various reasons… the ritual kind of got to me but then i started reading up on why this or that ritual is done. there is a reason for every move that is made at Mass. I still don’t know all about that kind of thing but anyway, the Real Presence of Christ is there… and all the angels and saints.

Sometimes when i am caught up in my “life in the world” i don’t feel like going to Mass either, espeically if i am tired or wahtever. But once i am there, i am always glad i went to the trouble. (As you probably know, one doesn’t have a choice on Sunday because to miss Sun mass is a grave sin). anyway, it is easy to get caught up in the world otuside the Church and the two worlds are so drastically different (Jesus doesn’t like the world, the flesh and the devil), that it is sometimes a big thing to tear oneself away from (whatever).

so i guess i can relate to a certain extent. but i only feel this way on rare occasions.

also: I guess it goes without saying that I am far more enthused when i am on my way to a Church where the priest is orthodox Cahtolic…

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Church is about celebrating the sacraments, actually. The different positions of prayer (siting, standing, etc.) are meant to orient you, body and soul, to the Lord.

Oh really? I thought it was a work-out.

I know that it’s about celebrating the sacraments, but that only five to ten minutes out of the entire our, depending on how long the song lasts during the Eucharist.

 

[Joysong]

Pathfinder7:

sorry if speaking my mind annoys or angers you but i feel that i could say the same hting to you: could you be in danger of losing your lampstand through judging ME… by 1) saying that i judge 54% of Catholics who voted for Barack…

Dear P,
All we have to do is read your posts in the Politics forum and know for certain that you are indeed judging them, and this is the cause of losing your joy, as you yourself admitted. I hope you don’t want me to publicly pull those posts, do you? Realize that I did NOT judge you, but simply asked this in question form, using the word “Could you be in danger?” I expected that you would judge your own heart.

 

[KingAlfred]

wow… this is strange to me. You don’t like going to Church? going to mass is the highlight of my day… I’ve been told that all the angels and saints participate in the mass and i believe that…

I am just wondering waht your spiritual background is? That may help me to understand better where you are at… thanks…

Cradle Catholic. Catholic my entire life. Deeply committed to Jesus.

I get impatient with Mass. I like a quick Mass, and would go every day if I could find one. Long, drawn out ceremonies simply get under my skin. I hated marching in parades in the military. I hated all pomp and circumstance. I want it quick. I admit that part of my spirituality isn’t completely Catholic. For example, I don’t give the sacraments the same degree of importance the Church expects. I consider living the faith much more critical. Anyone can undergo a ritual. Anyone can get married, or ask for a priest on his deathbed. The crux of the Christian proposition and challenge is whether or not one can live the life, on a daily basis, moment-by-moment, in a world full of insanity, cruelty and blind destruction.

 

[Strategery]

I have looked at myself until i am blue in the face. Knowing myself (and none of us ever really, totally knows ourselves except God)… is not the issue. I am talkign about what to make of people in my life who… don’t walk the talk. All i am saying is that i don’t GET it… That’s it… don’t read more into this than is actually there.

A few things to remember.

Spirituality is a continuous process, and each individual is on a different timeline. Many, many people stay in spiritual infancy for a long time before things take hold. There is a million mile difference between the head and heart. Lots of people have conceptual knowledge of God, but won’t commit to obedience in one way or another.

It isn’t until one truly submits to God’s authority that they even see the need for obedience. Until then, it’s just a list of good things to live by. Once one submits to God’s authority, the light shines on the self, and you are able to see yourself (to the extent possible for a human) through God’s eyes. Once that happens, the necessity of obedience becomes obvious, and the desire for obedience begins to grow.

Instead of focusing energy on why people behave that way (answer: sinful beings in a fallen world), I think it’s more productive to focus on what I as an individual can do to help them. Remember, Christ told the Pharisees that he came to save the sinners, not the righteous. He came to find what has been lost.

It’s fine to be aware of the situation, but what is it that you want to do? Help? Looks like you’ve already demonstrated to yourself that complaining about it just makes you upset.

Have you thought of making a personal commitment to an individual? Spend time with him (or her), determine “where he’s at” spiritually, and minister to him on that level. Let Christ’s light shine through you, rather than covering up that light with anger.

 

[reen12]

quote: reen12

I thought that the idea was, in Christianity, to be living, breathing
re-presenters of Jesus. To live in such a way that people might
say “He/she looks joyful. I wonder why?”

“Blessed are those who mourn now for they shall be comforted.”

It is difficult to be joyful in a world that votes for $ over life… in a world where you are dirt if you aren’t beautiful and/or wealthy and/or successful and/or young, etc… a world that tells you it is better to commit murder than to be “punsihed with a child”…

where people are celebrating weddings by spending $2 million dollars on partying and 2000 miles away, people are lying in the streets dying of malnutrition…

Need i go on???

No, no need to go on, pathfinder7.

Those who accept Jesus as God are likely to have heard his words:
“Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall have their fill.”

We each hunger and thirst for such righteousness, when we are repelled by the behavior of others which brings wounding to the innocent. Partial birth abortion is particularly a horror.

Jesus knew what we would see and hear in our lifetimes.
He understood the pain of heart and soul and mind that
we would experience, watching some of our fellow human
beings, as they violate others, in myriad ways.
Not ‘self-righteousness,’ rather yearning for the righteousness
of God to be present.

“I give you a peace that the world cannot give,” Jesus said.
“Fear not. I have overcome the world.”

Joy may be present even in the midst of profound suffering.
And it does bring suffering - to see what man is capable of doing
to his/her fellow humans.

When a Christian keenly feels the suffering of others,
that may be the time to sit at the foot of his cross, leaning against it.

“Blessed are those who mourn now for they shall be comforted.”

One doesn’t have to tell Jesus why one is feeling so down,
sitting there, leaning against his cross. He knows why.
That’s what he’s doing there, to begin with. Taking the sin of the world upon himself. And hanging there, he comforts our hearts,
because he understands.
That’s what Christian theology teaches.

As to joy, I think of “I know that my redeemer lives.”

Christians hold Jesus as redeemer. “Fear not, I have
overcome the world.”

To me, God is One, not triune in nature. Yet Christians hold
Jesus to be the savior, and he has told his followers that
those who hunger for righteousness shall have their fill.
I take this to be a reference to the eventual coming of
the kingdom of God on earth, beyond the kingdom being
present in one’s heart.

“Be not afraid, little flock…” Luke 12

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Perhaps a Christian might consider the words on the bookmark
of Teresa of Avila.

Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, All things pass away, God never changes…

reen12 :tiphat:

 

[KingAlfred]

I also think it’s potentially unwise to become addicted to going to church. Consider the nature of the communications involved – a one-way ‘download’ of information, from the pulpit to the congregant. It’s important to critically think about something as important as religion for oneself. The documentaries comemorating the recent, 30th anniversary of the Jonestown massacre really shocked me, and served as a reminder of the need to cling to one’s capacity for critical thought.

No…I’m certainly not comparing the Catholic Church to Jones’ ‘People’s Temple’. No way. I’m just insisting now, more than ever, on being able to use my own brain when it comes to religious belief. I won’t follow anyone or anything blindly.

For example, I’ve never liked the preaching of Father Corapi. Whenever I’ve stated as much online, I’ve been attacked by fellow Catholics. None of those assaults, however, have changed my mind. I refuse to listen to him, no matter what anyone says. To the best of my ability, I’ll always try to control what I choose to believe.

 

[drforjc]

Oh really? I thought it was a work-out.

I know that it’s about celebrating the sacraments, but that only five to ten minutes out of the entire our, depending on how long the song lasts during the Eucharist.

The entire Mass is a participation in the heavenly liturgy described in the book of Revelation. It is also a participation in the entire Paschal mystery- the Incarnation, life, Passion, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We enter in a sacramental sense into the company of the angels and saints who continually worship before the heavenly throne. We know this by faith even though all we see is the physical action taking place before our eyes.
Try picking up a book by Scott Hahn entitled “the Lamb’s Supper.” It may help explain this better than I can.

Mass is really like the proverbial iceberg: there is much more happening that we cannot see than what we can see.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

pathfinder7;

I knew when i posted this that i would be judged as being too critical of others and not looking at myself.

Well, maybe you should go back and read your original post and pray over it. Perhaps you’ll see how it came across as judgmental.

Its difficult if not impossible, to criticize people, and then try to say you’re not being judgmental.

Jim

 

[beckycmarie]

Pathfinder, we receive tremendous grace from the Eucharist. We are all transformed by attending Mass and taking Communion. That transformation may be slower for some than for others, but you are wrong in asserting that attending Mass has no effect.

Some words from our Pope on this topic (bolding mine):

I would like to add a word about the Eucharist. In order to grow in our Christian life, we need to be nourished by the Body and Blood of Christ. In fact, we are baptized and confirmed with a view to the Eucharist (cf. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1322; Sacramentum Caritatis, 17). “Source and summit” of the Church’s life, the Eucharist is a “perpetual Pentecost” since every time we celebrate Mass we receive the Holy Spirit who unites us more deeply with Christ and transforms us into Him. My dear young friends, if you take part frequently in the eucharistic celebration, if you dedicate some of your time to adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, the Source of love which is the Eucharist, you will acquire that joyful determination to dedicate your lives to following the Gospel. At the same time it will be your experience that whenever our strength is not enough, it is the Holy Spirit who transforms us, filling us with his strength and making us witnesses suffused by the missionary fervour of the risen Christ.

Source: Vatican website