Going to hell for leaving the Catholic church

[distracted]

Yes, I do believe that fudging the truth is the appropriate answer at times. If someone asks you how they look do you say “very nice” or do you say “well, for someone 15 pounds overweight with large bags under their eyes you look just okay”? Truth definitely has a purpose and a point, but there are times when chosing your words carefully has just as much importance.

I disagree with this. If someone is already have doubts about the truthfulness or fullness of the church then bringing up the arguement of hell is, in my mind, similar to bringing up the arguement of Nazis. Once it’s been brought up the conversation comes to a stop. If the only reason one should be Catholic is to not go to hell, well, that’s not a very loving image. Don’t be Catholic because of the sacraments, don’t be Catholic because of obtaining a closer relationship with God. Nope, only be Catholic so you don’t go to hell.

Frogs!

Why couldn’t they be Catholic and then be confused? In reading the forums it seems that those that are steadfast in their belief, almost to a fanatical view, are those that were once another religion and then have converted to become Catholic. Why can’t cradle Catholics doubt, explore other religions, and then come home? Would they only be considered true Catholics once they came back? Or are they not allowed to have doubts and explore other religions as they started from Catholicism? Don’t we want Catholics to have a fully committed understanding of what ‘to be’ Catholic means? If we don’t allow Catholics to question and then come home aren’t we doing our cradle Catholics a disservice by saying that others can explore and come to the church on their own merit, but since you were born into the church you don’t get a choice you must stay or you were never a Catholic in the first place? At what point do you blindly follow the faith because if you have doubts you’re told you’re not a real Catholic and are going to hell for questioning?

you didn’t u/stand my post… never said anything about doubts…

just saying that if someone know the faith and knows or strongly suspects its the “right one” and leaves… thats some seroius stuff… they probably just want to leave for their own selfish reasons… want to rationalize some sin or something…

 

[Valley_Lily]

Could you tell me how you accepted the savior into your life please, and when did this happen. Thanks, in Christian love, Ralph

So I have always wondered; what about the kids who were raised in devoutly Christian homes and were raised to love and know Christ as your savior? Do they still have to do the whole thing? As in, yeah, God, you know I’ve loved you and accepted you for longer than I can ever remember, but I still have to go ahead and tell you straight out now.

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

It depends on whether those who leave fall for Protestant propaganda like the quote above despite knowing the Catholic arguments (the truth) against them.

Well, for one thing I am pretty sure Martin Luther is in hell.

The most important conclusion to draw from all this is heaven is a difficult place to enter, hell quite easily.

Again, it depends on whether they know of those Catholic arguments (truths) reputing Protestant propaganda.

As for motivation, that is not important as long as the Catholic practices his faith, avoids mortal sin and receives the sacraments.

Other people on the hell list other than apostates are those who persecute the Church and Catholics, engage in anti-Catholicism, die in a state of mortal sin and those who belong to Satanic groups and ideologies.

I was a Catholic for many years, so I know all of your “Catholic arguments reputing Protestant progagnda”. I found the Catholic arguments to be totally unconvincing…

Just a reminder – one does not need the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Salvation is through Christ. John 14:6 says this: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on salvation. To suggest otherwise would be “Catholic propaganda”.

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

I don’t see the point of seperating the two, one has to accept Christ as their saviour in order to be a Roman Catholic.

But one can accept Christ as Savior without being a Catholic. The Catholic Church is not necessary for salvation. Christ is.

 

[Valley_Lily]

But one can accept Christ as Savior without being a Catholic. The Catholic Church is not necessary for salvation. Christ is.

I’m not Kc, so I can’t speak for him, but when I think of Christ in the Catholic church like this discussion, I think of it more in context of those who say, like, Catholics don’t believe in Jesus or aren’t Christian and all that. I believe all Christians accept Jesus as Lord, or else they wouldn’t be Christians, ya know? this is like one of those discussions that can go a couple ways. I believe Christ is necessary for salvation, for eeeveryone, not just Catholics, but this just makes me think of those who believe the RCC, in turn, does not have Christ.

I’m sorry, I’m not making any sense. I had a point, but I don’t quite think I’m making it.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I was a Catholic for many years, so I know all of your “Catholic arguments reputing Protestant progagnda”. I found the Catholic arguments to be totally unconvincing…

Just a reminder – one does not need the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Salvation is through Christ. John 14:6 says this: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on salvation. To suggest otherwise would be “Catholic propaganda”.

Then somebody needs to tell some of the Protestant’s in my life. They think that because I go to the Catholic Church that I am not “saved”. They pretty much think I’m going to hell for GOING to the Catholic Church.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Then somebody needs to tell some of the Protestant’s in my life. They think that because I go to the Catholic Church that I am not “saved”. They pretty much think I’m going to hell for GOING to the Catholic Church.

Yes I find it strange the call that it does not matter what church you attend on Sunday… unless that Church is Catholic. Then it matters great deal. I am not saying that Ann has this mind set. For all I know she may be very consistent in her belief that what church you attend doesn’t matter. But I have had countless discussions with other Christians about how it doesn’t matter what church you go to and then, almost in the same breath, how terrible it is that I go to a Catholic Church. *Have one’s cake and eat it too *

That is a different thread though, one which would be entitled ‘Going to hell for being Catholic’

God bless

 

[CMatt25]

Then they’d had their chance, so I wouldn’t be optimistic about where they are going after they pass away, to put it lightly.

KC, can you please provide a Church statement saying fully knowledgable practicing Catholics who later come to a different belief are going to hell. You mentioned you are pretty sure Luther is in hell. And you suggest any Catholic who does not remain fully practicing faces the same fate. I posted a quote from Lumen Gentium, “Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.” But poster Roman Catholic says it only applies if someone knows or STILL knows but refuses to enter or remain. If someone no longer still believes, how does “could not be saved” apply to them?

 

[shondrea]

Yes I find it strange the call that it does not matter what church you attend on Sunday… unless that Church is Catholic. Then it matters great deal. I am not saying that Ann has this mind set. For all I know she may be very consistent in her belief that what church you attend doesn’t matter. But I have had countless discussions with other Christians about how it doesn’t matter what church you go to and then, almost in the same breath, how terrible it is that I go to a Catholic Church. *Have one’s cake and eat it too *

That is a different thread though, one which would be entitled 'Going to hell for being Catholic’

God bless

They mean, any CHRISTIAN church. Some protestants don’t believe Catholics are Christian. Have you ever read Born Fundementalist Born Again Catholic? The author’s opening story is about how when he was a little boy and JFK was shot, his classmates cried because the president was dead. He cried because he knew JFK was in hell for being Catholic.

 

[shondrea]

KC, can you please provide a Church statement saying fully knowledgable practicing Catholics who later come to a different belief are going to hell. You mentioned you are pretty sure Luther is in hell. And you suggest any Catholic who does not remain fully practicing faces the same fate. I posted a quote from Lumen Gentium, “Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.” But poster Roman Catholic says it only applies if someone knows or STILL knows but refuses to enter or remain. If someone no longer still believes, how does “could not be saved” apply to them?

I love the story Jimmy Akin told on this, referencing a patient and a doctor.

The patient is very ill, and needs medicine to make him better. There are many that will help him, some more than others. If his doctor says, you need Pill A, the patient will put his full trust in the doctor, hopefully after a good questioning and take the pill. If the patient still dies, can you blame the patient? He was doing what he believed to be best for his body, under guidance he trusted. If he honestly believed this pill would be the cure, but it wasn’t, could you blame him?

So if a person, be they atheist, Catholic, Jewish, whatever, were to believe whole heartedly and with all they have that Methodism or Lutheranism was the right and true way, I doubt fully God would damn them.

I don’t know enough about Luther. Maybe he was a power hungry mad man. Maybe he truly believed what he was doing was serving God. If it was the latter, and he fully believed he was doing Gods work, then…who can say where he is?

 

[CMatt25]

I love the story Jimmy Akin told on this, referencing a patient and a doctor.

The patient is very ill, and needs medicine to make him better. There are many that will help him, some more than others. If his doctor says, you need Pill A, the patient will put his full trust in the doctor, hopefully after a good questioning and take the pill. If the patient still dies, can you blame the patient? He was doing what he believed to be best for his body, under guidance he trusted. If he honestly believed this pill would be the cure, but it wasn’t, could you blame him?

So if a person, be they atheist, Catholic, Jewish, whatever, were to believe whole heartedly and with all they have that Methodism or Lutheranism was the right and true way, I doubt fully God would damn them.

I don’t know enough about Luther. Maybe he was a power hungry mad man. Maybe he truly believed what he was doing was serving God. If it was the latter, and he fully believed he was doing Gods work, then…who can say where he is?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

They mean, any CHRISTIAN church. Some protestants don’t believe Catholics are Christian. Have you ever read Born Fundementalist Born Again Catholic? The author’s opening story is about how when he was a little boy and JFK was shot, his classmates cried because the president was dead. He cried because he knew JFK was in hell for being Catholic.

Yep I have read it. Currie’s sentiment was exactly what I was referring to.

God bless

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This almost reminds me of how the witnesses couldn’t agree in Scripture at Jesus’ trial. We hear 28,000 then 32, 000, then 50,000 then actually down to 15,000.

Honestly, to be fair, most of these are of the same denomination and truthfully…where are these numbers coming from?

The last count which was only a while back, it was 35,271. At the rate the number has proliferated to such staggering quantum that you quoted, it would be really hard to keep track of how many they are.

 

[steve_b]

I was a Catholic for many years, so I know all of your “Catholic arguments reputing Protestant progagnda”. I found the Catholic arguments to be totally unconvincing…

how do you argue against the following passage in this letter to the Church of Rome?

(empjasis mine)

:

Rm 16:
17* I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create divisions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, * and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19* For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20* then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

Is there really an argument here?

Taking the points from that passage Paul says those who leave the Church

• are NOT serving our Lord.
• they serve their own selfish appetites instead
• they deceive the simple-minded
• are disobedient to the faith
• are to be avoided by the Church
• are foolish (opposite of wise)
• are committing evil

That’s not an apologetic, it’s apostolic teaching. Is Paul unconvincing?

Protestants broke from the Church of Rome in the 16th century and then proceeded to spin into serial division ever since. Do you think Paul’s letter didn’t apply in the 16th century to all those who revolted? Or today?.. this teaching applies forever.
PA:

Just a reminder – one does not need the Catholic Church in order to be saved. Salvation is through Christ. John 14:6 says this: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Here’s another passage to consider.

: (emphasis mine)

Gal 5:
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God

If those who dissent/divide and remain so, don’t inherit the kingdom of God when they die, where do you think they go? BTW, It doesn’t say these people cease to be Christian.

• Jesus, the way the truth and the life, established His Church and all the sacraments.
• Jesus never said you don’t need the Church He established.
• Jesus never said the Church wasn’t necessary for salvation.
• Jesus DID say to Peter, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind and loose here on earth will be done so in heaven.

If the Catholic Church Jesus established is not necessary for salvation, why is the penalty of loss of heaven put there in scripture, if one leaves/divides from His Church?

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

how do you argue against the following passage in this letter to the Church of Rome?

(empjasis mine)

Is there really an argument here?

Taking the points from that passage Paul says those who leave the Church

• are NOT serving our Lord.
• they serve their own selfish appetites instead
• they deceive the simple-minded
• are disobedient to the faith
• are to be avoided by the Church
• are foolish (opposite of wise)
• are committing evil

That’s not an apologetic, it’s apostolic teaching. Is Paul unconvincing?

Protestants broke from the Church of Rome in the 16th century and then proceeded to spin into serial division ever since. Do you think Paul’s letter didn’t apply in the 16th century to all those who revolted? Or today?.. this teaching applies forever.

Here’s another passage to consider.

If those who dissent/divide and remain so, don’t inherit the kingdom of God when they die, where do you think they go? BTW, It doesn’t say these people cease to be Christian.

• Jesus, the way the truth and the life, established His Church and all the sacraments.
• Jesus never said you don’t need the Church He established.
• Jesus never said the Church wasn’t necessary for salvation.
• Jesus DID say to Peter, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind and loose here on earth will be done so in heaven.

If the Catholic Church Jesus established is not necessary for salvation, why is the penalty of loss of heaven put there in scripture, if one leaves/divides from His Church?

None of this has anything to do with leaving the Catholic Church. You have simply given the typical Catholic rhetoric. The Catholic Church is never mentioned in scripture; and in fact, you will not find a sacramental system or papal infallibility in scripture. In short, the Catholic Church does not resemble the New Testament Church. Apparently you have been well indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

None of this has anything to do with leaving the Catholic Church. You have simply given the typical Catholic rhetoric. The Catholic Church is never mentioned in scripture; and in fact, you will not find a sacramental system or papal infallibility in scripture. In short, the Catholic Church does not resemble the New Testament Church. Apparently you have been well indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

Wait, just what is your position here Ann? Are you saying that someone will not go to hell for leaving the Catholic Church because it doesn’t matter which Christian Church you attend or are you saying that someone will not go to hell for leaving the Catholic Church because it is not a Christian Church in the first place?

God bless

 

[Orleans_Attny]

I was raised Catholic, am now in my early 20’s, and have recently made the decision to leave the Catholic church. I was curious about what the Catholic church itself would say about me leaving, and according to the Catechism, someone who has full knowledge of the church’s mission, beliefs etc, and then leaves the Catholic church, will not achieve salvation. It sounds like I’m going to hell.

This seems kind of weird. I suppose I can understand how the Catholic church got so big if it has a “you go to hell if you leave” clause in the Catechism.

Thoughts?

It’s not the Catechism that you should be most concerned about. Look at Scripture.

In Hebrews 6:4-8 the Holy Spirit said,

For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

Why have you decided to leave the Church?

I hope that you will reconsider your decision and your faith.

Pax,
OA

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Wait, just what is your position here Ann? Are you saying that someone will not go to hell for leaving the Catholic Church because it doesn’t matter which Christian Church you attend or are you saying that someone will not go to hell for leaving the Catholic Church because it is not a Christian Church in the first place?

God bless

No one is saved because of the church they belong to. One is saved because of Christ.

**Romans 10:9-11:

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, '“anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”**

Trust in the Lord. He is sufficient!

God Bless!

 

[Reuben_J]

This almost reminds me of how the witnesses couldn’t agree in Scripture at Jesus’ trial. We hear 28,000 then 32, 000, then 50,000 then actually down to 15,000.

Honestly, to be fair, most of these are of the same denomination and truthfully…where are these numbers coming from?

I hate to be sarcastic to fellow Catholics because most of the time I agree with them.

I just thought we need to give some crediblity to the Protestants and not saying thing if it is not there. I could be wrong, but even a consevative figure like 20 - 30 thousands are way too many; and they will tell us the figure is derived by the method we categorize them. Then they can say that there are even many ‘denominations’ in Catholicism if one applies the same method of counting.

There is no need to mentioned figure like 20 or 30 thousands denoms in Protestantism as this is not honestly true. But we are right if we want to demonstrate divisions - they are there. Even if they are 10 denominations, they are still ways too many. Didn’t the Lord says we are one and there is only One True Church?

And no, I did not get any figure other than a way of speaking.

 

[Reuben_J]

And for all the English teachers – please forgive the grammars. They are caused by typo and my mind either lags or too fast than my fingers. I used to edit some posts when there is time. It is caused by something like grey matter deterioration, short term memory loss (STML) and perhaps like getting over to the other side. I am too young to be like that but one cannot discount the possibility of premature senility.