Going to hell if we can't join the church?

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One caveat–while divorce may be necessary to protect the rights of children, or to ensure safety in situations of abuse, it is still a grave wrong under canon law. It is preferable, except in the very specific cases above which relate to rights or safety, that there be a separation only and not a divorce. So one does not have a ‘right’ per se to civil divorce; it is only to be pursued as a ‘last resort’ under the criteria above. However, in those cases you are correct; you may still be in full communion with the church so long as you neither remarry without a decree of nullity or otherwise remain without grave sin. (IOW, no ‘shacking up’ and excusing it with ‘well, I didn’t remarry!’)
 
I’m not sure if this matters, but my husband’s previous wife was also an alcoholic – she starting drinking heavily AFTER he married her. She was driving drunk regularly w/ my stepkids in her car, and at one point attempted suicide (and on another occasion my husband wrestled a gun out of her hands), and was arrested and forced into rehab. She in fact left him for her FEMALE AA sponsor. Despite all of this, he had attempted to reconcile the marriage and she was unwilling to do so – saying in fact that she had NEVER loved him in the first place – and he finally filed for divorce when he thought the lives of the children were in danger and she refused to come back home. I just don’t know why this has to be so hard to sort out. sigh 😦 However, I’m glad all of you don’t think we are headed for hell.
 
Please talk to a priest right away. Your husband would seem to have have grounds to petition for an annulment. Also, since no one has mentioned this (that I saw) were both your husband and his ex-wife validly baptized prior to or during their marriage? If one party was not baptized before or during the course of marriage, there would be grounds for Pauline Privilege. This is sort of the same as annulment in its outcome, but not quite the same in process. Pauline Privelege is where the marriage is dissolved, and it is much easier to pursue than an annulment. (I did this myself and it was very easily done).

Annulments can be time consuming and frustrating. Personally, I believe his chances are very good for an annulment, however, that is just a lay person’s opinion. If his ex-wife deceived him about her same sex attraction, at the time they were married, then I would say (personal opinion) that he did not enter the marriage with full knowledge. Since the alcoholism occured after the marriage took place, I do not believe it would be a consideration…but again, that is a personal opinion. Pre-existing conditions are the key.

Oh, by the way, you expressed a concern about going to hell. I would second the opinion to trust in God’s Mercy. However, I am not going to minimize the importance of the Sacrament of Penance, it is very, very important. Since you cannot presently receive this Sacrament, be sure to try to say a Perfect Act of Contrition every day. Also, I would try to do a penitential act for your sins–say some Our Fathers or Hail Mary’s or a Rosary, for example. A priest can better advise you on things you can do right now, before entering the Church, that can help you repent of your sins. Although well-intentioned, I believe any advice that says “all you need to do is believe in Christ” to be saved is misleading. The Bible and the Church both say we must “repent” in addition to believing. A Perfect Act of Contrition is a way to do that until you can receive the Sacrament of Penance.

:blessyou:
 
dawninohio said:
Hi,

I’m really confused here. My husband and I recently left our protestant church after a HORRIBLE experience, and were seriously considering joining the RC church. However, it appears that my husband and I couldn’t even join the church because my husband was previously married. His 1st marriage ended in divorce by no fault of his own (his 1st wife left him for a homosexual relationship), but it was a marriage that he entered into willingly, so I don’t think there are any real grounds for a catholic annulment according to all of my research.

The logical conclusion would be that not being able to join the church = being denied the sacraments = no grace from God = dying in our mortal sins = hell for the two of us. If our faith in Christ isn’t enough to save our souls, and we need to receive sacraments via the one true church as our source of God’s grace, it appears that we can’t receive them. Apparently, we can’t even go to confession, much less join the RC church! Am I misunderstanding something? :confused:

Dawn
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Yes you are “misunderstanding something”. Nothing is impossible. First you can’t judge his prior Marriage, the Church Tribunal needs to do that. Second Dying with un-repented Mortal sins is a free trip to Hell. It sounds to me like your conscience is leading you towards Christ. Speak with your local Catholic Church Pastor.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Yes you are “misunderstanding something”. Nothing is impossible. First you can’t judge his prior Marriage, the Church Tribunal needs to do that. Second Dying with un-repented Mortal sins is a free trip to Hell. It sounds to me like your conscience is leading you towards Christ. Speak with your local Catholic Church Pastor.
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Brother Rich:

As someone cannot judge his prior marriage, you cannot judge which sins are mortal. We can have a general idea of what is mortal or not, but we cannot assume that someone’s particular sin is mortal or not.
 
dawninohio said:
Hi,

I’m really confused here. My husband and I recently left our protestant church after a HORRIBLE experience, and were seriously considering joining the RC church. However, it appears that my husband and I couldn’t even join the church because my husband was previously married. His 1st marriage ended in divorce by no fault of his own (his 1st wife left him for a homosexual relationship), but it was a marriage that he entered into willingly, so I don’t think there are any real grounds for a catholic annulment according to all of my research.

The logical conclusion would be that not being able to join the church = being denied the sacraments = no grace from God = dying in our mortal sins = hell for the two of us. If our faith in Christ isn’t enough to save our souls, and we need to receive sacraments via the one true church as our source of God’s grace, it appears that we can’t receive them. Apparently, we can’t even go to confession, much less join the RC church! Am I misunderstanding something? :confused:

Dawn
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I think you really need to study about the move that you are going to make. If you match up scripture to Catholic doctrine, you will find some very serious discrepancies. I would be glad to share with you some things that you would be quite concerned with. Let me know. I was Catholic and almost reverted…my studies have taken me about 3-4 years and I have come to the conclusion that there are some very serious issues. I write this in love.

God Bless You.
 
There are so many vairables here on the annulment issue that it would be hard to discuss and you really should talk to a priest…was your husband baptized in his church at the same time… was he married by a minister of that church or by a judge…was it the norm of his religion and culture to marry with a judge, etc. It might be that the annulment would be a “Simple declaration of nullity for lack of form” (If his tradition in his other chuch dictated marriage by a minister and instead it was a judge this could qualify for lack of form) which can sometimes be as fast as two weeks…or it might have to be annuled for a defect in consent on one or both parties parts…which can take months to as much as 2 years…and longer if the exwife appeals…which I find highly unlikely. I’m not on a tribunal, but I think the grounds for annulment exist in what you’ve said. Become Catholic and work the process.
 
OneForTruth said:
I think you really need to study about the move that you are going to make. If you match up scripture to Catholic doctrine, you will find some very serious discrepancies. I would be glad to share with you some things that you would be quite concerned with. Let me know. I was Catholic and almost reverted…my studies have taken me about 3-4 years and I have come to the conclusion that there are some very serious issues. I write this in love.

God Bless You.
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I concur that serious study should always take place in joining the Church. Perhaps you could start a thread, if you haven’t already, about your specific concerns. Scripture, when understood in its proper context, does not contradict any of the teachings of Catholic doctrine. However, private interpretation of scripture can definitely lead one to believe there are “serious issues” . I have also been studying the faith for years and have seen many issues brought up–the Bible is the sole authority, the bread and wine are symbolic, once saved always saved, Jesus had brothers, there is no need to confess sins–and each of those notions have been repeatedly and thoroughly refuted.

I, too, write this in love.
 
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the encouragement. I’m happy to hear all of your opinions – even if you are protestant and want to try to convince me NOT to be Catholic! I’m finding out that my husband isn’t taking the news well. He’s getting cold feet because he sees this as legalism and lack of grace and now is starting to wonder if we are doing the right thing, since it doesn’t seem a sure thing to even be able to join. So, your prayers are appreciated. I’m fairly sure that I want to be Catholic, but I’m not willing to destroy my marriage, either, and do the “brother/sister” thing. I have a hard time believing God would want that, either, since we did make wedding vows before Him. sigh
 
One partner with homosexual inclinations entering marriage may certainly provide grounds for annulment, but each marriage situation is unique, and only after a due investigation of all the variables and testimony of witnesses can there be a determination. The best tack is to visit your local Catholic pastor and let you husband talk to him and lay the facts of the marriage before him. What happened after the wedding is not ground for annulment, but may very well shed light on the circumstances that existed at the time of the marriage: intent, consent, capacity etc.

There is also nothing to stop you from attending the RCIA or confirmation classes and learning more about what the Church actually does teach, even though you won’t be able to receive the sacraments until the validity of your marriage is established.

Yes it is possible (no guarantees) for anyone to be saved even if they are not in full communion with the Catholic Church, but everyone who is saved is saved through the merits of Jesus Christ, even those who do not even know Christ. The merits of Jesus Christ are mediated on earth through the Church he established within the sacramental economy he gave us.
 
You are not going to hell for not joining the church.

You’re not going to hell for not believing in Jesus.

How do I know this?

God is not an egotist. (Edited by Moderator)

There is not a loving God who would burn someone in infinite pain for all eternity for making a mistake.

I am not infinitely loving by any means, but I would not send any person who has ever lived on Earth to eternal torture.

We can safely say that God is significantly nicer than me, besides which, he is infinitely merciful.

Even if it were possible to do something which merits infinite torture (it’s not), God’s infinite mercy would necessarily dictate that he not give you the full punishment so you would not be tortured for eternity.

Seriously. How could a loving being torture someone forever? Especially good people like you in your situation?

I mean come on. God is not stupid.
 
IanBoyd57 said:
God is not an egotist(Edited by Moderator).
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Though I know you meant well by your comments, I must ask that you refrain from such language here. Your point was made well without the inclusion of the profanity. Thank you and God bless!

Kelly
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
Please talk to a priest right away.
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I agree, and would add that the validity of marriage vows speaks to a persons ability as well as intention to make and keep promises. i.e…you husband and his former spouse could have both meant every word they promised but, for some reason, not have had the ability to really make and keep those promises. Your pastor can help you figure out what to do. The nullity petition process is long but worth it, IMO.
 
nkmeck said:
Perhaps someone can help me with this. If OP’s husband was not married in the church, therefore the marrige is not recognized by the church (yes???), would an annulment even be necessary?

Thanks and God Bless Yins!
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If her husband was baptized Catholic at the time of his marriage, then you’re right, the marriage would be invalid. But if her husband was not baptized Catholic, the marriage is presumed valid.

I’ve heard that a spouse leaving another spouse for a homosexual relationship could be grounds for annulment, since it could imply that the homosexual spouse was incapable of fulfilling the requirements of marriage. But I’m not a canon lawyer, and since I’ve never been married, I’ve never sought an annulment.
 
dawninohio said:
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the encouragement. I’m happy to hear all of your opinions – even if you are protestant and want to try to convince me NOT to be Catholic! I’m finding out that my husband isn’t taking the news well. He’s getting cold feet because he sees this as legalism and lack of grace and now is starting to wonder if we are doing the right thing, since it doesn’t seem a sure thing to even be able to join. So, your prayers are appreciated. I’m fairly sure that I want to be Catholic, but I’m not willing to destroy my marriage, either, and do the “brother/sister” thing. I have a hard time believing God would want that, either, since we did make wedding vows before Him. sigh
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God bless you both! My husband went through much the same thing. I promise that this cross you are currently bearing will show itself as a true blessing someday. Through struggle we are all called to a deeper relationship with Christ. One of the things I have discovered is that one of the earmarks of a cross given to us by Christ is that it is never EVER something we would have signed up for willingly.

If someone had told me in my fornicating, contracepting, “angry at the Church” years that someday I would be called to the life I have, I would have laaaaaaughed! I would have been willing to bet everything I had that any abstinence in marriage (or abstinence period for that matter) was a bad thing.

May you and your husband grow in holiness during this difficult time to not fear hell for retribution, but instead to desire heaven in a perfect love of God. God bless you! You’re in my prayers.
 
IanBoyd57 said:
You are not going to hell for not joining the church.

You’re not going to hell for not believing in Jesus.

How do I know this?

God is not an egotist. (Edited by Moderator)

There is not a loving God who would burn someone in infinite pain for all eternity for making a mistake.

I am not infinitely loving by any means, but I would not send any person who has ever lived on Earth to eternal torture.

We can safely say that God is significantly nicer than me, besides which, he is infinitely merciful.

Even if it were possible to do something which merits infinite torture (it’s not), God’s infinite mercy would necessarily dictate that he not give you the full punishment so you would not be tortured for eternity.

Seriously. How could a loving being torture someone forever? Especially good people like you in your situation?

I mean come on. God is not stupid.
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God is, indeed infinitely merciful – but he is also infinitely just and infinitely wise. If one lives a life that rejects God and does not desire to reconcile with him, one deserves God’s justice – not God’s mercy.

Peace,
Dante
 
Re: “legalism”

Canon law on marriage is complicated because marriage situations are complicated. It’s slow because the Church wants to do justice and give all parties their rights. Don’t get discouraged.
 
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