Going to JW Meeting: Their Religion Is Almost All New!

[estesbob]

There is no denying that Jesus was in fact born. So what difference does it make what day his birth is celebrated? For me a bunch of hoopla for nothing.

Agreed. I believe that JWs don’t celebrate any holidays. I recall having a JW employee years ago who was concerned about our office Christmas Lunch and whether she could accept a Christmas Bonus. I changed the lunch to an employee appreciation Lunch and called the bonus a year end bonus. everyone was happy then.

 

[Logically]

I think what is happening to the JWs is wonderful. I am sorry that some on here are using language that comes across as an attack on you.

As for me and my family, all this started last summer when we decided to look back at our religious background …

Sorry if you are suspicious about this. I am actually applauding what you people are doing in admitting your mistakes and changing for the better. It is an example which should all follow. You are very brave for being such a people,

Oh very good.
I figured your extensive opinions would have required alot more investigation than a single meeting!

I am fascinated at what people believe, and especially why they believe it.

To me - it is logical there is only one truth. I think we all need to examine what we believe and why to make sure we are on the right track.

If we don’t hear from you - enjoy your vacation!

 

[benhur]

I was never baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses but I did grow up in the religion. I recently had contact with them and decided to visit among them after some 30 years of being away from a Kingdom Hall. What I learned from this weekend’s Watchtower study and comments from current Witnesses has helped me to see that the Jehovah’s Witnesses no longer practice or believe in the same things they did prior to the year 2000. And it appears greater changes are on their way. Here are two points of change that shocked me off my feet:

**Point No. 1: **Soliciting Begins, Even Though Governing Body Claims Their Requests Do Not Count as “Soliciting”

Quote from Watchtower books about their official doctrine before this month of May…

“Jehovah’s people will never beg for money.”—God’s Kingdom Rules!, page 194.

“Although the costs of supporting our evangelizing work are high, we do not solicit money…we believe we have Jehovah as our backer and that we ‘will never beg nor petition men for support.’”—Who Are Doing Jehovah’s Will Today, Lesson 24.

This month a member of their Governing Body changed all that when on their televangelist Roku he spent a significant amount of time asking Witnesses to dig deeper into their pockets due to a significant need for financial support.

This fundraising appeal is new for the Witnesses because all other similar appeals by other churches were ridiculed and judged as evil by the JW religion for over a century. While many are happy to do what they can (one person actually said that they would buy less groceries for their family in order to give their organization everything it asks), there were just as many I heard from who were shocked by the whole thing.

**Point No. 2: **Watchtower Ends Reading Prophecies Into Old Testament Narratives

Each Sunday they review and discuss an article from their indoctrination journal (or magazine), The Watchtower, which usually publishes their unique take on the Bible, rotating subject matter to discuss their doctrines and keep these fresh in the minds of adherents. It is like sitting in a Sunday school meeting where everyone is discussing the answers to a test they took the night before because all you have is someone standing in front of the audience directing the “class,” another man reading each paragraph, and people answering the pre-printed question for each paragraph of the article to review what was just read. It is a very efficient system.

This weekend they reviewed an article which looked into a matter announced at a special meeting held by the Governing Body not too long ago. The JW religion, which reads most every narrative in the Old Testament as a prophetic type for the “last days,” has now officially abandoned its most fundamental hermeneutic approach to their eschatology. In other words, the building blocks for claiming end-time dates and events as they have for the past 100+ years had been discarded like trash.

While the article discussed did not mention it, many had the same question afterwards as they discussed the ramifications of this change in their religion: the validity of their famous 1914 date. Their belief that they were chosen as the one true religion relies heavily on reading not only Old Testament narratives as types to be fulfilled in the last days, but they also read many parables of Jesus as prophetic types too. The article showed how even reading Jesus’ illustrations this way was no longer to be done.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have taught that a narrative in Daniel chapter 4 regarding Nebuchadnezzar was a prophetic message providing hidden numerical data to enable them to calculate that the end of days and Christ’s Parousia would begin in 1914. Add to this a parable by Jesus at Matthew 24.45-51 has been viewed as foretelling that Jehovah would use their current Governing Body as the sole channel of truth after 1914 onward. Now that the rules have changed and the Governing Body has directed that no narrative or parable will be considered prophetic unless the Bible specifically says so, many are now expecting the Governing Body to ditch the 1914 doctrine very soon as well.

Many changes have occurred that would never have been allowed before the year 2000, many of which changing the view on time prophecies the Witnesses have used to claim that they were the sole channel of truth. Now that the formula for these is gone people are wondering what is coming next.

Also: JWs to Begin a Greater Emphasis on Jesus Than Before

The current tide of information suggests that this summer the Governing Body is preparing to do two things: center their people on being Witnesses of Jesus more than ever have in their past history and taking an active interest in seeking out and engaging in active outreach programs to those that have either left their religion or been excommunicated in the religion’s past. This latter effort would include a major change to their doctrine which up till now has excluded such outreach and viewed expelled ones as marked for death at the outbreak of Armageddon.

While these changes are actually something I welcome, I notice that a lot of long-time Witnesses are confused. These changes are making their religion more and more identical with mainstream Protestantism by adopting views, practices, and doctrines that were considered anathema just 15 years ago. I guess they are taking a page out of the LDS handbook and realized it is time to make themselves appear like they are just as Christian as anyone else, except in this case the JWs are actually adopting more traditional Christian beliefs than the LDS has.

interesting.Thanks

 

[spedteacherita]

Harsh criticism. But fair if it is true.

But can you show me a single scripture that says Jesus is part of a Trinity? The word “Trinity” is not in the Bible. The doctrine developed gradually and wasn’t widely believed until hundreds of years after Jesus death. (partly because the Catholic Church hunted down anyone who questioned it as "heretics"after they merged with the Roman Empire who had been the ones persecuting Christians before that)

The Bible teaches something quite different to the Trinity. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28 contradicts it a dozen times- Paul sure didn’t believe Jesus was part of a Trinity)
That is part of the reason why hundreds of thousands in Mexico have quit the Catholic Church and become JW’s. They are seeing things in their own Bibles and realising it is contrary to what their Church teaches.
What are they supposed to do when that happens?

If the JW’s are teaching falsehoods - yes, “a plague.”
But if they are teaching the truth … Then perhaps they are the world wide preaching work Jesus prophesied would happen before the end in Matthew 24:14.

Blessings to you, Logically in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

While the word “Trinity” is not used in the Bible there are many verses that speak to the doctrine of the Trinity. I guess my question to you is, “Do you believe that Scriptures teach that there is One God?” If you do here are a couple of verses that speak to the 3 in 1 doctrine:

Matt. 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,”
2 Cor. 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”

Genesis 1:26, Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” Who is the US written there?

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.…

Here is something you may already have read but it goes into a bit more detail about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit being the one person.

biblehub.com/john/1-1.htm

John 10:30, I and the Father are one.

My favorite verse John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

Here is a simple interesting article discussing the Trinity as well. I hope our scholars in exegesis can help with the discussion of the Trinity as we simply can’t take Scripture out of concept but we use Scripture to interpret Scripture.

God bless, Logically!

Rita

 

[spedteacherita]

Agreed. I believe that JWs don’t celebrate any holidays. I recall having a JW employee years ago who was concerned about our office Christmas Lunch and whether she could accept a Christmas Bonus. I changed the lunch to an employee appreciation Lunch and called the bonus a year end bonus. everyone was happy then.

What a great way to support all of your employees and being sensitive to their particular beliefs!

God bless!!

Rita

 

[ShanPO]

To me - it is logical there is only one truth. I think we all need to examine what we believe and why to make sure we are on the right track.

If it is logical that there is only one truth, how is it that the truth of the Jehovah’s Witnesses continually changes?

 

[Waynec]

Agreed. I believe that JWs don’t celebrate any holidays. I recall having a JW employee years ago who was concerned about our office Christmas Lunch and whether she could accept a Christmas Bonus. I changed the lunch to an employee appreciation Lunch and called the bonus a year end bonus. everyone was happy then.

It seems to me that the Christians are always the ones to make the concessions
Frankly, I am tired of it…

 

[casey_cates]

While the word Trinity is not in the Bible, Jesus does command that Christians baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Really, do they have any choice but to do an Orwellian (1984) revision of their beliefs?

FAILED WBTS Prophecies:

1886: Messiah to “take domination of the earth and to overthrow the oppressors and corrupters of the earth” in 1886 (Watchtower 1-15, 1886)

1897: “Kingdom is due to begin exercising power” (Studies in the Scriptures II [The Time is at Hand] 1887, p. 101

1914: 1914 “…will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men” (Studies in the Scriptures II [The Time is at Hand] 1907 edition, pp. 76-78

1915: 1915 will see the “…complete overthrow of the earth’s present rulership” Studies in the Scriptures II [The Time is at Hand] 1886 edition, p. 101

1918: 1918 God will destroy “the Churches wholesale and the church members by the million” any who escape will come to Pastor Russell’s works to be taught. Studies in the Scriptures VII [The Finished Mystery] 1917 p. 485

1920: “Not one vestige of it shall survive the ravages of world-wide all-embracing anarchy in the fall of 1920” Studies in the Scriptures VII [The Finished Mystery] 1917 p. 542

1925: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones will be resurrected in 1925 and visibly seen, they will be the new representatives on earth (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1921, pp. 88-90)

1942: “Let everyone who really loves the Lord…make the few remaining months the greatest witness yet given or possible” (The Watchtower, July 15, 1941 p.222)

1975: 1975 marks “the end of 6,000 years of rebellion of men and demons against God” (Awake, January 8, 1968, p. 19)

2000: “For the year 2000, I visualize a world transformed into a beautiful paradise!” (Awake, November 8, 1986, p. 8)

“`And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.” Deuteronomy 18: 21-22, New World Translation

 

[CeelosDeznos]

Looks like the conversation did indeed get rolling while I was away.

New information to add: the Governing Body has officially removed all connection between the 1914 date and the “generation” that would witness the Parousia in a revision to their Biblical encyclopedia and reference work, “Insight on the Scriptures.”

For about a century the JWs have taught that we the “generation” that will witness the end of the world is tied to the date 1914, and recently by claiming that “overlapping generations” composed of contemporaries whose lifespans have crossed that of those who witnessed the world events of the year 1914.

The updated doctrinal refinements as explained in “Insight” under the subject “generation” has removed all previous mentions of the year 1914 as well as abandoned the recent “update” that a Biblical generation can be interpreted as a set of “overlapping generations.”

While the recent August Watchtower magazine makes mention that older JWs have been acting “faithful” to the belief that the last days began in 1914, there is no mention that this date any longer has a connection to the “generation” of Matthew 24.34. I have already heard from one married JW couple who are officially leaving because of the failure of this “sign” of the 1914 generation as presented by the Watchtower over the past century. There is also still ongoing debate and anger regarding the previous report of Governing Body member Brother Lett who broke the 100+ year practice of “never” needing to ask for money (because Jehovah will always provide) who spent almost an hour doing that very thing in their international monthly televangelist Roku program.

And don’t worry. I will not be visiting any Kingdom Halls ever again. I got this information from the people who were my connection to the JWs, and now that they themselves are giving up and leaving there is no proverbial “wing” to be under even if I wanted there to be. Some of my closest friends from the past in that religion have severed all ties with the JWs.

 

[Crusader13]

Looks like the conversation did indeed get rolling while I was away.

New information to add: the Governing Body has officially removed all connection between the 1914 date and the “generation” that would witness the Parousia in a revision to their Biblical encyclopedia and reference work, “Insight on the Scriptures.”

For about a century the JWs have taught that we the “generation” that will witness the end of the world is tied to the date 1914, and recently by claiming that “overlapping generations” composed of contemporaries whose lifespans have crossed that of those who witnessed the world events of the year 1914.

The updated doctrinal refinements as explained in “Insight” under the subject “generation” has removed all previous mentions of the year 1914 as well as abandoned the recent “update” that a Biblical generation can be interpreted as a set of “overlapping generations.”

While the recent August Watchtower magazine makes mention that older JWs have been acting “faithful” to the belief that the last days began in 1914, there is no mention that this date any longer has a connection to the “generation” of Matthew 24.34. I have already heard from one married JW couple who are officially leaving because of the failure of this “sign” of the 1914 generation as presented by the Watchtower over the past century. There is also still ongoing debate and anger regarding the previous report of Governing Body member Brother Lett who broke the 100+ year practice of “never” needing to ask for money (because Jehovah will always provide) who spent almost an hour doing that very thing in their international monthly televangelist Roku program.

And don’t worry. I will not be visiting any Kingdom Halls ever again. I got this information from the people who were my connection to the JWs, and now that they themselves are giving up and leaving there is no proverbial “wing” to be under even if I wanted there to be. Some of my closest friends from the past in that religion have severed all ties with the JWs.

This is very good info. My in-laws are devout JW’s and have invited my wife and I to attend their assembly this July. I’m curious as to what will take place at such an event, but I have been reading up on it and I think I may have a general idea. However, I wanted to ask you if there was any information you could provide or perhaps literature I should bring to help me better understand the changes that have been taking place within their organization?

I’ve encountered many comments from different people over the years, that refer to the JW’s in very derogatory terms. Insisting that they be avoided like the plague, but as with members of any religion, you will find both good and bad examples. I know my in laws sincerely want for my wife and I to come to know the truth, as they understand it, about the scriptures and salvation. So I’ve found it far more beneficial to look into and study the teaching of the JW’s direct from the Watchtower and Tract society itself and not to rely solely on books and tracts that are meant to disprove JW doctrines.

As a Catholic, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked with people who based their understanding of the Catholic faith entirely on anti catholic literature and yet will adamantly refuse to even look into what the Catholic Church actually says on the matter.

So any help or information you can give will be greatly appreciated.

 

[adf417]

I’ve encountered many comments from different people over the years, that refer to the JW’s in very derogatory terms. Insisting that they be avoided like the plague, but as with members of any religion, you will find both good and bad examples. I know my in laws sincerely want for my wife and I to come to know the truth, as they understand it, about the scriptures and salvation. **So I’ve found it far more beneficial to look into and study the teaching of the JW’s direct from the Watchtower and Tract society itself and not to rely solely on books and tracts that are meant to disprove JW doctrines. **

The above bolded is wise but be cautious when JWs cannot reciprocate this act. For them to consider outside information disproving their own teaching would be apostate. All religions do this to a large degree but the difference here is the JW belief structure is based on what other religions teach as wrong as opposed to what they believe only. IOW if the Catholic Church taught that to be a full member of the Catholic Church you must believe “JWs believe Jesus is Elijah” and the Catholic came to understand better that this is untrue, you would find yourself no longer in good standing with the church. Fortunately this will never be the case with Catholics. The Catholic Church does not base its beliefs or teachings on what other religions teach and do not rely on the teachings, or mis-teachings of other religions to prove their belief structure.

On the other hand, the Watchtower cannot afford to present there teachings under this paradigm. If they did then they would have to realize that their teachings as to what Catholics actually worship is untrue and this would be devastating to their whole belief structure.

As a Catholic, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked with people who based their understanding of the Catholic faith entirely on anti catholic literature and yet will adamantly refuse to even look into what the Catholic Church actually says on the matter.

This IS very frustrating. Especially when you read in their own (JW) documents that “only God knows true worship” then they insist on telling me, and others, what it is I worship.

Peace!!!

 

[estesbob]

Are the JWs the one that do not believe Jesus was crucified on the cross but rather nailed to a stake?

 

[adf417]

Are the JWs the one that do not believe Jesus was crucified on the cross but rather nailed to a stake?

Correct.

 

[opulumpu]

The JW was a cult started by Charles Russell. I had contact with them a couple of times. If you ask them whether thay are Christians, they are evasive and will respond that they are Jehovah Witnesses. Debating them will be a whole lot easier going forward, thanks to the internet that has allowed easy access to their failed “prophesies” and revised or abandoned dogmas. Next time around, I will just provide them the list and let them explain the changes. Either Jehovah flip flops or their belief system is wrong. It is one or the other; it cannot be both.

John 14:6-7 “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me.”

Anybody who has had Jesus preached to him or her but does not accept Jesus, cannot get to the Father. You may be a Muslim praying ten times per hour to Allah, or one of the 144,000 JW but do not go through Jesus, you cannot get to Allah or Jehovah.

 

[CeelosDeznos]

I am sure the JWs won’t be adopting the cross or the Trinity anytime soon.

And all the above words of caution are well-worth considering. Please beware. They are not purposefully malicious, but many have succumbed to their proselytizing efforts.

What I can add is that it looks like the Governing Body is (and hold onto your hats if you are a JW or know about the religion) finally doing away with the teaching on 1914.

Their recent convention that spoke about Jesus released a new publication about the life of Jesus Christ and touched upon the “generation” issue. Like its updated “Insight” book, this publication made an attempt to be silent on any connection with the generation of Matthew 24:34 and the year 1914. In the past the year 1914 was always mentioned with this generation, but now the “year of Jesus’ return” is being mentioned less and less.

A recent Watchtower talking about people who have been faithful since 1914 also fails to connect the date any longer with the generation of Matthew 24, and some JWs are connecting this to the recent update of their New World Translation Bible where it has a set of important Bible dates (Section B1) which states that Satan the Devil was thrown to the earth “about” the year 1914, no longer directly on that year.

Removed from the Awake! magazine introduction before the year 2000, the 1914 year will, some believe, just be spoken less and less of until people forget about it. It is alleged that the Governing Body has decided to let the issue of the 1914 date slowly fade away instead of suddenly removing it. The reasoning is that less people will be stumbled by the change, some new ones that get converted will ever realize it was a teaching in the first place, and people like you or me won’t be able to bring up the subject of how they failed with the date since it will become irrelevant due to disuse.

While we have to wait and see, I was reminded that the Governing Body never does anything without a purpose. Even the smallest detail of their teaching means something. So the fact that the 1914 date is not tied to this “generation” in the latest literature has to be of some significance. I can’t imagine this being an oversight. It has to be on purpose.

 

[mark_a]

Some observations:

After telling a JW I am Catholic, she said “Y’all sure are in The Watchtower a lot!”

Since i’m getting older, I find the anti-birthday stance among JW’s pretty appealing.

They are the most well mannered evangelizers that have been to my house.

In my neighborhood, the white JW’s always stay in the car while the Blacks do all the evangelizing.

They always look, sound, and smell nice!