Going to the Tabernacle -- Cleric/Lay?

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Why is it that so many people on these forums believe that it is somehow wrong for a layperson (an EMHC) to go to the tabernacle and bring/return the ciborium? Am I missing something? Yes I think it would be great if almost ALL liturgical functions were handled by ordained men, but is there any instruction from Church that forbids a layperson from accessing the tabernacle during the Mass?
 
A layperson must not to touch the tabernacle or Sacred vessels without a very good reason. Doing it in Mass under the instruction of the priest qualifies.
 
I’ve read references on the tabernacle:
Vatican II - Sacred Liturgy. Nos. 52-56
Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed.) - Nos. 1183,1379
Dictionary of the Liturgy - Tabernacle, Pg. 607

They don’t mention anything about who can touch the Blessed Sacrament or the vessels that contain it. Unless it’s mentioned in some other reference that I missed or the ones I said above. Otherwise it sounds like people are inserting their own personal opinions or tastes into accepted and legal Catholic Church teachings. Oh, originally the tabernacle came into being as a place to hold the Eucharist so, that the sick could receive communion, consercrated from Mass they could not attend. End of story!!
 
Boy, I guess we humans are the most dirteist, sinful, unworthy, irreverant creations that God has made. We can’t touch, say or do anything. So, why did God make us?
 
PatrickJT914 said:
I’ve read references on the tabernacle:
Vatican II - Sacred Liturgy. Nos. 52-56
Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed.) - Nos. 1183,1379
Dictionary of the Liturgy - Tabernacle, Pg. 607

They don’t mention anything about who can touch the Blessed Sacrament or the vessels that contain it. Unless it’s mentioned in some other reference that I missed or the ones I said above. Otherwise it sounds like people are inserting their own personal opinions or tastes into accepted and legal Catholic Church teachings. Oh, originally the tabernacle came into being as a place to hold the Eucharist so, that the sick could receive communion, consercrated from Mass they could not attend. End of story!!
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The rules, issued by the Vatican on July 28, say that lay people:
  • may not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion;
  • may not place consecrated hosts into containers, known as “sacred vessels”;
  • must receive the sacred vessels from the priest, rather than removing them from the tabernacle or picking them up from the altar themselves;
  • may not assist in the cleansing of the sacred vessels after Mass;
  • may not consume leftover consecrated wine after Communion unless the priest administers it to them.
    Sounds unlike myth or opinion to me. Looks like solid liturgical law. Now you try going into our tabernacle or touching any one of the sacred vessels in our parish…No lay person is even allowed into the Sanctuary at my church unless they wear a cassock- even the Sacristan must wear gloves to shield his hands from the sacred vessels he handles.
Ken
 
kleary said:
The rules, issued by the Vatican on July 28, say that lay people:
  • may not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion;
  • may not place consecrated hosts into containers, known as “sacred vessels”;
  • must receive the sacred vessels from the priest, rather than removing them from the tabernacle or picking them up from the altar themselves;
  • may not assist in the cleansing of the sacred vessels after Mass;
  • may not consume leftover consecrated wine after Communion unless the priest administers it to them.
    Sounds unlike myth or opinion to me. Looks like solid liturgical law. Now you try going into our tabernacle or touching any one of the sacred vessels in our parish…No lay person is even allowed into the Sanctuary at my church unless they wear a cassock- even the Sacristan must wear gloves to shield his hands from the sacred vessels he handles.
Ken
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Ken,

Actually, the bishops asked about the latter and Rome replied that it is only common sense that an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion may consume any remaining Precious Blood from the chalice that they administer as it has already been given to them by the priest!

It is also true that a lay person may, if the circumstances warrant, go to the tabernacle. During Mass this should be done by a priest or deacon but if they are impeded, a lay person may do so.

Deacon Ed
 
Traditionally, many tabernacles were shaped like the Ark of the Covenant.

“It is recorded in the Old Testament that Moses and the Israelites built the Ark of the Covenant to house the tablets of the Decalogue (Ex. 25:8-16). The Lord instructed His People to also place manna that He had given them in the desert on the Ark (Ex.16:32-35). Centuries later, when King Solomon built the Temple of Jerusalem, the priests brought the Ark of the Covenant to the Temple and placed it inside the Holy of Holies (3 Kgs. 8:3-7) (cf. Heb. 9:1-5).”

“The Israelites had a great reverential fear for the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Only the priests were allowed to touch it. The Lord struck down Oza for touching the Ark when the Israelites were moving it to Jerusalem (2 Kings 6:6-7).”

Of course, now that many tabernacles look more like bird feeders, it probably doesn’t matter anymore. 🤷
 
PatrickJT914 said:
Boy, I guess we humans are the most dirteist, sinful, unworthy, irreverant creations that God has made. We can’t touch, say or do anything. So, why did God make us?
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The reality is that we are certainly sinful, but that is not really why the Church has traditionally, and as was explained below still does, prohibited the laity from touching the Sacred vessels, the tabernacle, and other sacred items. If it were, then no laymen could ever touch these items, for they would always carry the burden of sin.

Consider Original Sin. As you may well be aware, the Catholic doctrine of original sin - as opposed to most Protestant doctrines of it - does not refer to the actual personal guilt of a newborn infant as though he or she deserves punishment. Rather, it means that newborn infants are born altogether natural - without any provision of Grace. A newborn is not deserving of punishment - surely not, for it has done no crime! - but it is not capable of Heavenly beatitude either, for it posesses no Grace.

Imagine taking the chalice from Mass, and using it for some beer during a football game. Certainly, you would recognize the problem with that, as would most anyone. The chalice is a sacred item, and the football game and beer - while not evil - are normal, everyday things. They have no holiness to them at all. It would be entirely inappropriate to profane the chalice by using it in such a manner. Now even the angels, in and of themselves, would profane the Lord by being in His presence infinitely more than the presence of the football and beer profanes the chalice. It is thanks to the Lord’s gift of Grace to the angels that they themselves are holy, and so may rightly be in His presence.

As human beings, we are not dirty, vile, terrible things. However, we do not begin to approach the infinite holiness of God. Thus, we do not touch sacred items without cause. Priests hands are annointed when they are ordained, so that their hands may be made holy. It is thus that they may freely touch the Sacred items. God lifts them far above what they are by nature so that they may serve at His altar. Laypeople have not been thus annointed. We are not terrible, vile worms, but we are not infinitely holy, either. Thus, it is not intrinsically wrong for us to touch the Sacred vessels, and with good reason and in the proper context we may do so. However, it is most fitting that we do not approach these items ourselves, for our hands have not been annointed in a special way for the purpose of doing so.

I hope that helps,

Peace and God bless!
 
kleary said:
The rules, issued by the Vatican on July 28, say that lay people:
  • may not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion;
  • may not place consecrated hosts into containers, known as “sacred vessels”;
  • must receive the sacred vessels from the priest, rather than removing them from the tabernacle or picking them up from the altar themselves;
  • may not assist in the cleansing of the sacred vessels after Mass;
  • may not consume leftover consecrated wine after Communion unless the priest administers it to them.
    Sounds unlike myth or opinion to me. Looks like solid liturgical law. Now you try going into our tabernacle or touching any one of the sacred vessels in our parish…No lay person is even allowed into the Sanctuary at my church unless they wear a cassock- even the Sacristan must wear gloves to shield his hands from the sacred vessels he handles.
Ken
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DO you happen to have a reference please? Thanks…
 
Lazerlike42 said:
This is all in the GIRM as issued in 2000 and the following editions, as well as the 2002 USCCB Norms for the Distribution of Holy Communion Under Both Kinds.

For example:

GIRM #160 - “The faithful are not permitted to take the consecrated bread or sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them from one to another.”
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Many thanks…

I never saw a prohibition against going to the tabernacle by a layperson in the GIRM. Do you happen to have the paragraph? Thanks again…
 
Spiller said:
Many thanks…

I never saw a prohibition against going to the tabernacle by a layperson in the GIRM. Do you happen to have the paragraph? Thanks again…
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Well, I was basing that more off of just my knowledge of the traditional understanding in the Church. This has traditionally been considered very grievous.

However, the prievious poster did quote from a news report on the new GIRM which indicates that that Extraordinary ministers may not take the sacred vessels from the tabernacle. The news story may be found here.

I’ll check the GIRM for this again, but I believe that this refers to #160 as I quoted below. Note that it does not say where the faithful may not take the sacred vessels from, only that they may not. This would apply to the altar as well as the tabernacle.

Peace and God bless
 
Lazerlike42 said:
Well, I was basing that more off of just my knowledge of the traditional understanding in the Church. This has traditionally been considered very grievous.

However, the prievious poster did quote from a news report on the new GIRM which indicates that that Extraordinary ministers may not take the sacred vessels from the tabernacle. The news story may be found here.

I’ll check the GIRM for this again, but I believe that this refers to #160 as I quoted below. Note that it does not say where the faithful may not take the sacred vessels from, only that they may not. This would apply to the altar as well as the tabernacle.

Peace and God bless
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Thanks again.

I definitely see how it is wrong for a layperson to grab a sacred vessel full of hosts of the Precious Blood from the altar.

Would it also be wrong for a EMHC to receive a full ciborium from the hands of a priest and repose it in the tabernacle?
 
Spiller said:
Thanks again.

I definitely see how it is wrong for a layperson to grab a sacred vessel full of hosts of the Precious Blood from the altar.

Would it also be wrong for a EMHC to receive a full ciborium from the hands of a priest and repose it in the tabernacle?
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Well, I would say so, because there’s just not any need for it. The principle of laypersons touching the sacred vessels at all has always been based on need. It is not intrinsically immoral by any means, but it is most fitting and proper that one who has been consecrated for that purpose specifically do it, just like it’s not intrinsically evil for the Mass to be offered on an unconsecrated altar, but it is most fitting and proper for it to be so it is only permitted to be otherwise in circumstances of absolute necessity.

So I would say yes, because I can’t think of any circumstances which would make this neccessary. There will never be a Mass where the number of ciborium are greatly disproportionate to the number of priests. 99.99999% of the time, you will have maybe 4 ciborium and one priest, or that sort of thing. On some odd and rare occassion, you may have more - such as in a papal Mass - but in such a case I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t have a bunch of priests around.

That being said, I don’t know if it is expressly forbiden anywhere. So, that’s my two cents.
 
I know this is an old post and I’m realy not trying to dredge, but I did a search of CAF and this thread came up.

I was in line for confession before mass (all priests were in the confessionals) last night and a lady brought the sacred vessel up and placed it in the tabernacle. I’ve seen this before on other occasions. I was wondering about this myself. I’m still not clear on it, though. :confused:

In answer to us being, “…the most dirteist, sinful, unworthy, irreverant creations…”, yes we are (IMO). Try to remember, we are handling the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. If lay people are allowed to handle the vessels in the way I saw it, fine. If not, we need to stop.

We need to get over ourslves.
 
CatholicFireman said:
I was in line for confession before mass (all priests were in the confessionals) last night and a lady brought the sacred vessel up and placed it in the tabernacle. I’ve seen this before on other occasions. I was wondering about this myself. I’m still not clear on it, though. :confused:

.
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Why would someone put a ciborium in the tabernacle before mass?
 
Joannm said:
Why would someone put a ciborium in the tabernacle before mass?
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Some parishes have a second tabernacle that is in a more secure location, or perhaps a smaller chapel what celebrates daily Mass. Some of the Hosts are kept there and then moved to the tabernacle in the main church when Mass is going to be celebrated there.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Some parishes have a second tabernacle that is in a more secure location, or perhaps a smaller chapel what celebrates daily Mass. Some of the Hosts are kept there and then moved to the tabernacle in the main church when Mass is going to be celebrated there.
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Thanks. 🙂 I think this is the case. I think there is a secure place in the Sacristy. Either that or maybe it was empty until the mass?

Ciborium…that’s the word. Thanks Joannm. 🙂
 
CatholicFireman said:
Thanks. 🙂 I think this is the case. I think there is a secure place in the Sacristy. Either that or maybe it was empty until the mass?

Ciborium…that’s the word. Thanks Joannm. 🙂
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Also, if its a larger parish, there’s the possibility that there are a lot of Hosts that could have been left over from a previous Mass that was kept inside a second tabernacle. There’s just a number of reasons why this would be done and they are good reasons. Of course there are also bad reasons, but let us not bother with it 😉
 
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