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kage_ar
Guest
Unless all of the people I work with are liars, and I am a liar - well then your brother’s hospital is very different than my first hand experience.
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Rico_S
Guest
Perhaps Cat’s a liar, and my brother is a liar. Where does that leave us?
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kage_ar
Guest
As I said, your brother’s hospital sounds like a very different kind of place than the hospitals I interact with. Perhaps his could be a model for other hospitals?
Is there any chance that he does not see what goes on in the collections department when they turn the uninsured over for collections? Is there a chance he is not there when the guy is sent home as soon as the staples are out with an RX and no way to fill it? Maybe a chance that as a director he is far removed from what happens to the uninsured?
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Rico_S
Guest
Sure, it is possible he is just wrong and not lying.
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mommamia
Guest
I believe the care that the uninsured receive varies state to state. Here in OH I know for a fact it varies widely hospital to hospital. So its possible that no one is lying, just speaking from different experiences.
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tapiocapudding
Guest
Longingforlight, I’m so sorry to hear that you’re stuck in this terrible situation. I will pray that your family will be in a better situation very soon.
The unemployment rate in my area is also dismal. DH lost his job in January and we were very worried. But the government offers grants for laid off workers to go back to school so now DH is taking a college course, fully funded. The living allowance is not quite enough for us to get by so either DH or I need to find a job ASAP or we are going to have some big troubles. But those troubles will not prevent me from getting excellent maternity care or us being able to take our baby to be seen for an ear infection without going broke. I thank God often for my health care which so many take for granted.
I can see from your posts that you have carefully considered your options and I think it is very sad some would accuse you of not trying hard enough to make things work. I can’t believe that some would blame laid off workers or the poor for their troubles. Doesn’t God love the poor after all?
I really hope you don’t need to put your groceries on credit. Don’t be ashamed to ask for help if you need it in this hard time. It’s there precisely for families in situations such as yours!
Off topic, I had a cousin in New York who had a very sick baby. He got pneumonia, a lung collapsed and he nearly died. Fortunately, he recovered and is now a healthy (if slightly asthmatic) 5 year old. But my cousin declared bankrupcy over the $100 000 bill, (she and her husband were both self employed and could not afford the insurance) she and her husband lost the house and they ended up divorced after she moved home with her parents. How can there not be a better way?
The unemployment rate in my area is also dismal. DH lost his job in January and we were very worried. But the government offers grants for laid off workers to go back to school so now DH is taking a college course, fully funded. The living allowance is not quite enough for us to get by so either DH or I need to find a job ASAP or we are going to have some big troubles. But those troubles will not prevent me from getting excellent maternity care or us being able to take our baby to be seen for an ear infection without going broke. I thank God often for my health care which so many take for granted.
I can see from your posts that you have carefully considered your options and I think it is very sad some would accuse you of not trying hard enough to make things work. I can’t believe that some would blame laid off workers or the poor for their troubles. Doesn’t God love the poor after all?
I really hope you don’t need to put your groceries on credit. Don’t be ashamed to ask for help if you need it in this hard time. It’s there precisely for families in situations such as yours!
Off topic, I had a cousin in New York who had a very sick baby. He got pneumonia, a lung collapsed and he nearly died. Fortunately, he recovered and is now a healthy (if slightly asthmatic) 5 year old. But my cousin declared bankrupcy over the $100 000 bill, (she and her husband were both self employed and could not afford the insurance) she and her husband lost the house and they ended up divorced after she moved home with her parents. How can there not be a better way?
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Cat
Guest
This is absolutely not true. I don’t know what kind of town you live in or what hospitals and free clinics you work with. The hospital I work at has an ED that provides top-notch care to EVERYONE who walks in the door. No way would someone with a crushed leg be sent home to a wheelchair. Absolutely no way.
I can’t speak about the billing, but if someone can’t pay, they can’t pay. We have a very large homeless population, and since our hospital is in the inner city, we’re the E.D who gets these patients. They can’t pay and we know it. We take care of them anyway.
And our free clinic is absolutely amazing. Beautiful buildings and campus, and a top-notch staff of great doctors, nurses, and other staff. The clinic is associated with our hospital’s health system, and it is excellent. Like I said, I would go there in a minute. Waiting lists? No, not here.
Gosh, I guess I’m pretty lucky to live here.
I know, I know, not everyone can move. But the fact is, if you live in a less-than-ideal city or state and can’t get a job and can’t find good health care and pay a fortune for even a small home–well, maybe it’s time to pray really hard about moving. My daughter lives in California while she’s in school, and she pays eight hundred a month for a 400-sq. feet apt. My husband and I pay less for a three-bedroom ranch home. No way would I ever live in such an expensive place.
OTOH, our city has very few “technical” companies, which means that we have a very small percentage of people living here with college degrees. That makes it hard to attract companies to locate here, which means that we have a high unemployment in the city–around 20%. However, with Chicago so near, about 25% of the people commute there for work.
So there are drawbacks everywhere. The point is, moving might be a good solution for a family that just can’t seem to get back on their feet again. That’s something that I suggested earlier for the OP.
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shannyk
Guest
Wow. No wonder things are this way in this country. No one has a clue how health care and insurance even works or how much their care ACTUALLY costs.
Costs in health care do not have the benefit of the price regulation of the free market. This drives costs up for everyone. If you are insured you have no real tangible appreciation of that because the cost to you is only what your premiums and co-pays are.
Employer based insurance is the problem.
Imagine if your employer bought your groceries for you. You’d pay a premium and go get what you needed for food every month with a small co-pay per visit. You never had to consider the actual cost of the food you’re buying and the stores would have no motivation to keep costs low and competitive because of that. Problem is the people who don’t have food coverage would be shopping at the same stores and have the pay the same non-competitive inflated prices. Buying food would become unattainable for many people.
What would we do, tell them all to go to the food bank? Can you imagine how overtaxed the food bank would become? Where would all the food come from and who would pay for it?
The problem is employer based health care. It started during the depression and it’s time has come and gone. Insurance structured as it is drives costs UP for everyone. Just be glad if you are part of the everyone who has recourse to insurance.
Costs in health care do not have the benefit of the price regulation of the free market. This drives costs up for everyone. If you are insured you have no real tangible appreciation of that because the cost to you is only what your premiums and co-pays are.
Employer based insurance is the problem.
Imagine if your employer bought your groceries for you. You’d pay a premium and go get what you needed for food every month with a small co-pay per visit. You never had to consider the actual cost of the food you’re buying and the stores would have no motivation to keep costs low and competitive because of that. Problem is the people who don’t have food coverage would be shopping at the same stores and have the pay the same non-competitive inflated prices. Buying food would become unattainable for many people.
What would we do, tell them all to go to the food bank? Can you imagine how overtaxed the food bank would become? Where would all the food come from and who would pay for it?
The problem is employer based health care. It started during the depression and it’s time has come and gone. Insurance structured as it is drives costs UP for everyone. Just be glad if you are part of the everyone who has recourse to insurance.
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Bluegoat
Guest
My step-father is a GP. He had a patient who got sick on a visit to the US and came home with an $18,000 bill. The same procedures here would cost the system about $2000. Health care costs in the US are not reflective of the real costs of delivering the services. There are inflated by many factors, including insurance profits (both on the patient side and the liability side) that just do not exist in other places. And often, medical decisions are actually being made by bean counters at those insurance companies - people with no public accountability or interest in medical best practice. Why else are doctors and hospitals not allowing women to have VBACs, even though that is the safest for moms and babies?
To the OP - if you can’t afford to actually use the insurance, I don’t see any point in having it. I guess the problem would be if something really catastrophic happened.
I find the whole private insurance model really hard to wrap my head around. If I need to go to the doctor I go; if I need hospital care I get it. The only bill I ever had was for up-grading to a private room when I had my babies.
To the OP - if you can’t afford to actually use the insurance, I don’t see any point in having it. I guess the problem would be if something really catastrophic happened.
I find the whole private insurance model really hard to wrap my head around. If I need to go to the doctor I go; if I need hospital care I get it. The only bill I ever had was for up-grading to a private room when I had my babies.
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LongingForLight
Guest
Thanks for this suggetion, Cat. If moving were an option, I would take it. However, with the 30% drop in our house value since we bought it, we’re upside-down right now and can’t sell, to the best of my knowledge.
If anyone knows of a way to sell a house while badly upside-down, though, I would be interested. We could easily find a house to live in comfortably at lower cost in the area, and only bought this house because we were SOOO confident about the stability of my job, and knew we’d never every have to move again no matter how large our family got if we bought it (unless we had problems with the payments . . . sigh). My husband tends to suffer depression for 6 to 9 months everytime we move, and we haven’t been able to find anyone who seems to be able to help him with this yet.
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dulcissima
Guest
Your options would be to do a short sale or a deed in lieu of foreclosure. Your mortgage company can explain those options to you. They do have a negative impact on your credit, but less so than a foreclosure.
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sharmin
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LongingForLight
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Yes, that’s what I thought . . . we are so not there yet. Two weeks behind is a LONG way from needing a short sale, especially when we should be back to paying on time this January, if we can just make it until I get my longevity bonus (my company’s alternative to vacation pay - one week’s income as a bonus).
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Cat
Guest
Of course I realize that. I believe that in my post, I said that moving is not always an option. I understand family obligations, climate problems (allergies, arthritis, etc.), lack of funds, children’s schooling and activities, etc.
But I think that if moving IS an option, it’s one that people ought to seriously consider if they are down on their luck financially. There are so many wonderful places to live in the U.S., and no one will stop you from moving. You don’t have to have a VISA or a green card to move to a different state.
MANY people have opted to move away from Chicago and the suburbs to the towns further west in Illinois, because they can buy a huge castle here for the same price that they pay for a fifty-year-old two bedroom flat with no garage in the city.
My husband and I wish that we had done just the opposite and moved into the West Suburbs when our kids were small because of the abundance of opportunities in figure skating in the suburbs compared to our city. We spent an awful lot of money and time commuting into Chicago for seven years so that my daughters could skate with a good synchronized skating team (our rink didn’t have competitive teams).
Perhaps this is why I keep offering the “move” advice–it’s one of the few regrets that my husband and I have about raising our daughters. I think our quality of life would have been drastically improved, and we still would have been close enough to our older relatives to see them on a regular basis.
One place that a lot of my friends have moved is Las Vegas. Cheap, cheap homes and lotsa jobs! Good weather, too (if you like heat, which I don’t).
Back in the early 1980s, my husband and I moved away from Northern Illinois to Raleigh, North Carolina. For the next eight years, we watched the nightly news and cringed to see that our city in Illinois was suffering through 25% unemployment (tied with Flint, Michigan). Meanwhile, Raleigh’s unemployment rate at that time was less than one percent. Everyone was working. The Research Triangle Park was booming to the sky, and jobs were easy to be had in Raleigh back then.
My brother-in-law and his wife moved out to California at the height of the dot.com industries, and made a pile of money. Then when the dot.com industries went belly-up, his company went bust, and he was out of a job. But he had plenty of money, so he went back to school and earned a law degree on top of his engineering Ph.D. Now he’s moved back to Chicago, is working for a law firm, and they’re living in one of those castles in the suburbs.
My point is–there is usually somewhere in the U.S. that the recession is ignoring. If you can do it, move to that place, even if you have to take a loss on a house. It’s sometimes nice to just start all over.
Oh, BTW, for those who are wishing that my husband and I would suffer a job loss, it’s very likely in the near future. My husband’s contract will end next summer, and he has no idea what his company will do (or not do) with him. He’s at that age (early 50s) where the company starts nudging people out the door because they want younger people so that they pay less of salary. Nowadays, too, so much work in computers is being outsourced to India.
One possibility for us is a move to India. We probably won’t take that route. I’m hot today and have all my windows open, even though it’s in the mid-50s here!
Another possibility is a move to New York. Any move would be tough right now, because our parents are getting older and more frail. We hate to think of leaving them. But if that’s what it takes, we’ll move.
He could leave the company and look for another job. It’s a scary thought, but it’s definitely a possibility.
What we’re hoping for is that the company will find remote work for him that he can do from home. When he works from home, we only need one car. And he has more free time, since he doesn’t have a long commute to the office.
We’ll see. In case you’re all wondering, due to skating expenses over the years, and very expensive private schools and colleges for our daughters, we have virtually NOTHING in savings, and absolutely zilch in a retirement package.
So retirement is not an option.Living on streets is a possibility–all our health care would be provided in our city, and we could sleep at the rescue mission or the Red Cross shelter (and eat there, too). And we could spend our days sitting in the transients’ room at the library reading. (I’m not kidding–there really is a Transients’ Room at our downtown library, and many homeless people spend their entire day there reading.)
This doesn’t sound like such a bad life, does it?!
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LongingForLight
Guest
If the market improves, we probably wouldn’t sell. We’d refinance, and then our payments would be within our income. If we could sell, we could refinance for enough of a difference to be doing fine.
I think DH was just shocked because I’d never mentioned getting rid of health insurance before that point. Since I handle the finances, he really doesn’t understand how the credit cards we’ve used during emergencies in the past (no one working, needing a roof replacement) have made our current situation so much harder by adding yet another payment to our list of bills. And the idea of uninsured children has been a very emotional topic used as a weapon during the health care debates, so the idea of our children becoming part of that group - even if only just “until they can get onto government health care” - really hit him hard.
And I still don’t feel right taking groceries when our situation really isn’t that bad. I don’t see health insurance as being a necessity for most people, and everyone in our family is in good health.
I’ve used the ER while uninsured before. Trust me, it’s not free. It’s actually more expensive without the special discounts that insurance companies wrangle. Take a look at your ER bills that you’ve received. Note the insurance company discount. Uninsured people don’t get that. I’ve seen as much as 3/4ths of my insurance-covered bills just poof! removed by the simple fact that I have insurance, even when I was paying out of pocket due to my deductible. Uninsured people actually help pay for insured people’s care, so they can get that discount.
You are probably thinking of homeless or very poor people who can’t really be sued and have nothing to lose if the hospital takes action against them or trashes their credit. That’s not our situation. The ER is going to bill us, trust me. And they will come after us if we don’t pay.
Hm, I’ll look into this. It would be good to know where to get those things if we do actually need them.
If we can just make it until the baby is born . . . then I can look for a higher-paying job, and since my particular field in IT wasn’t flooded, I can probably find one. I mean, I HAD one just 10 months ago. I should be able to make at least 90% of that income again. But getting it while 6 months pregnant just isn’t going to happen.
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LongingForLight
Guest
This seems out of place on a thread where the OP has stated that she CAN’T sell her house, not even at a loss. Not, that is, unless I want to put my family into a worse financial situation - and the bank, too. Also, I already have a job, and it’s not really a bad one. I make more than most people I know - just not nearly as much as I used to. It’s pretty questionable if I could make this same income anywhere else, especially since my skills and experience are a perfect fit for the major employer here and the many companies that have grown up around them - but not such a great fit for anyone else. Putting my job at risk by moving, plus DH’s, isn’t really a good move.
But if it’s an option for a family, they should use it. I have a sister moving to Kansas for this reason. Hastened by her DH being laid off, sadly
I’m very sorry to hear that your husband’s job is at risk! I truly, truly hope you have less problems than we have. If you think there is age-related discrimination, please persue it legally. Ageism is becoming a recognized issue, and he shouldn’t be laid off just because he is getting older. Can he get more training and education so he can compete with the younger people?
If he’s in IT and not in tech support, our part of the country (Seattle area) is still pretty good for many techies. I can do some research if you can tell me exactly what your DH does. If he can shift a little, Microsoft is still hiring testers and devs, albeit mostly through contracts for testers - but you don’t want to be here as a PM or tech support.
I wouldn’t recommend trying India. There is a reason they all want to come here to work if they can! If the cost of living / income ratio were more favorable there, they wouldn’t be coming to Redmond instead whenever they can get a visa.
It’s good to know we have that safety net if we need it, in this country. But there’s also the violence on the streets, the shame and stigma, and the mental health risks, even with all the government does do to make it less cruel. Still, from what you’ve said, it sounds like you have lots of other options to try first. And you sound very resourceful, so I’m sure you’ll find a better way to support yourselves.Living on streets is a possibility–all our health care would be provided in our city, and we could sleep at the rescue mission or the Red Cross shelter (and eat there, too). And we could spend our days sitting in the transients’ room at the library reading. (I’m not kidding–there really is a Transients’ Room at our downtown library, and many homeless people spend their entire day there reading.)
This doesn’t sound like such a bad life, does it?!
Can your children help at all? I know we’d take in our parents in a jiffy if something like that came up.
Prayers for you guys, hopefully this is just a worry and doesn’t actually happen. Or perhaps God has a plan for your husband to be working somewhere where his experience will be appreciated!
If you really do need to look at moving, I can help you guys look at moving to this area. Most of my contacts are on the “Microsoft” side of tech, but I do know some people on the Google / Linux side as well, and some people who are truly technology agnostic. I also know some recruiters, and my DH has a lot more contacts due to his own job search, who I bet would JUMP to hire someone with as much experience as your DH. Whether the recession is here really depends on if you are the right sort of tech and how much experience you have - and that you are current and have been working recently. I know a number of age 50+ people contracting, many by choice as it pays more than full-time for them (but the benefits aren’t as good).
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dulcissima
Guest
Cat, I don’t think anyone here was wishing you would suffer a job loss. I have a job with very good benefits, and I hate to think how quickly things could turn upside down. I would hate for such a thing to happen to anyone, but unfortunately it is happening to plenty of hardworking people.
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LongingForLight
Guest
Cat- I reread your post about moving a little more closely, and I see where you are coming from and why you posted it. My apologies for my overly hasty comment earlier about not understanding why it was on this thread.
I do agree that moving is a great option when it is available. I guess I’m partly just frustrated in return because it would make our lives so much simpler if we could just “move out” of this situation, instead of having to stick it out and make the best of it. Even though I logically know foreclosure would be even more stressful than this, and even though I know I’ll be glad to have the house still once the temporary crisis we’re in is over, I still sometimes just wish we could short-sale or foreclose and be done with this.
We’re actually in the best part of the country for our combined fields, since I have a far greater earning potential. Moving for DH’s job wouldn’t make sense even if we didn’t have an upside-down mortgage weighing on us, because the places that are “outside of the recession” for him are not the same as the places where I would earn the most - that’s actually right here, or in California (which has outrageous costs of living, though).
The only reasons I’m making so little are that I had to get an “emergency job” after losing my last job and couldn’t negotiate for the income I deserve, and I haven’t been able to go hunt for a better job while pregnant - plus I could use a good letter of recommendation after the sour ending for the last position I held. While DH’s part of tech is in a recession, mine isn’t, and once I’m no longer pregnant, my opportunities will be much greater. I really wish I could just take some time at home with the baby, but you gotta do what you gotta do. At least I should be able to WFH right after the birth, so I can hopefully initiate breastfeeding.
I guess I can see why you are so frustrated with me and my situation, if you are facing a similar situation and will be having to move yourselves if the worst happens - and while you have family that really wants your presence, no less.
I do agree that moving is a great option when it is available. I guess I’m partly just frustrated in return because it would make our lives so much simpler if we could just “move out” of this situation, instead of having to stick it out and make the best of it. Even though I logically know foreclosure would be even more stressful than this, and even though I know I’ll be glad to have the house still once the temporary crisis we’re in is over, I still sometimes just wish we could short-sale or foreclose and be done with this.
We’re actually in the best part of the country for our combined fields, since I have a far greater earning potential. Moving for DH’s job wouldn’t make sense even if we didn’t have an upside-down mortgage weighing on us, because the places that are “outside of the recession” for him are not the same as the places where I would earn the most - that’s actually right here, or in California (which has outrageous costs of living, though).
The only reasons I’m making so little are that I had to get an “emergency job” after losing my last job and couldn’t negotiate for the income I deserve, and I haven’t been able to go hunt for a better job while pregnant - plus I could use a good letter of recommendation after the sour ending for the last position I held. While DH’s part of tech is in a recession, mine isn’t, and once I’m no longer pregnant, my opportunities will be much greater. I really wish I could just take some time at home with the baby, but you gotta do what you gotta do. At least I should be able to WFH right after the birth, so I can hopefully initiate breastfeeding.
I guess I can see why you are so frustrated with me and my situation, if you are facing a similar situation and will be having to move yourselves if the worst happens - and while you have family that really wants your presence, no less.
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Brenda_V
Guest
I’ve been thinking of the OP’s concerns all day and then it dawned on me - how much would it cost if you could find “catastrophic health care” insurance and went to self pay for everything else?
Could this lower your costs for insurance to a point where you could afford regular healthcare?
Just a thought.
Brenda V.
Could this lower your costs for insurance to a point where you could afford regular healthcare?
Just a thought.
Brenda V.
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