Golden Calf, Icons & sacramentals

[ryanoneil]

Sorry, but don’t have the link handy, but Scott Hahn’s website, the St. Paul Center for Biblica Theology, has a Bible study that addresses this exact issue.

I think this is the one you are refering to.

The calf is an image of Apis, the Egyptian fertility God and Israel’s worship of it is a parody of the covenant at Sinai. As Moses did, they build an altar, rise early to offer sacrifices, eat and drink a ritual meal. They also, the Scripture says, “rose up to revel,” which is a polite way of saying that they engaged in orgies associated with the cult of Apis (see Exodus 32:1-6).

salvationhistory.com/onli…_lesson4_2.cfm

Peace,

Ryan

 

[epostle]

The Scripture is very specific about what constitutes an idol. It is the image of a creature (bird or animal) that is worshipped as a god. One has to look at when the Law was given to the people to find the clue as to God’s original meaning. The Hebrew had been rescued from Egypt by God.

If you look closely at the ten plagues for instance you can see that each plague represented the destruction of the gods of Egypt. By bringing the plagues upon Egypt God was showing that He was mightier than any human understanding of a god. The Hebrew had been affected by these gods in Egypt and in their hearts they wanted to continue to follow these gods.

The history of Israel is full of examples of the apostasy of Israel as it fell into this form of idol worship and was punished for doing so. The Golden Calf incident was an attempt by the Hebrew to worship the false gods that they had left behind in Egypt. Before the Golden Calf incident the Hebrew did not have to offer animal sacrifices, yet after that incident they had to do so. Why? Because God wanted to make sure that the Israelites were forced to renounce animal worship.

The false idols that we have today are not the statues of Jesus and Mary that one sees in a Church. For starters, Mary was truly a human person and the early Christians depicted both Mary and Jesus in their human image, as they saw them. The idols of paganism, on the other hand were idols that come from the imagination of the human mind.

What we are confronted with today are the images of pop stars, movie stars, consumerism, materialism, flag worship, of sport stars, worship of the body. Where is God in any of these images? These are the false gods of today. It is the false god called “ego” that is in conflict with the real image of God.

 

[foundthelight]

Just another reason to not use the NAB as a resource!

 

[jcrichton]

Also read the passages about the illness that befell the Isrealites during the exodus … Moses was commanded to make imases of serpents [snakes] and place them on poles before the Tabernacle of the Lord and to have the people gaze upon it. Thise that did were cured thise that did not - died.

It was not the image of the snakes that savved the people it was the grace of God that cure them. They did not worship the snakes by gazing upon them nor were they worshiping the Snake God. The people were doing as God instructed…

As an aside and not to derail the thread: I have often found the snake image interesting here. You know in the Garden of Eden the serpent was not the mediator of grace but sin. I find this curious, especially as this occurs early in the writings within the Pentatuch…but during the Exodus, the image of the snake was the vehicle through which God poured forth his healing upon the Isrealites…

***Hi, YADA!

…though I’ve never been bitten by one, I can imagine the poison burning through the body… some people may die within a few minutes others may take hours; some might even survive… my personal view is that the Israelites would have developed an enormous hatred and fear of the serpents that were attacking them and Yahweh use the image of that which they hated and feared to save them in order to show them that it is Yahweh who saves Israel–they only need to obey His Commandment and they live! (I am the Lord your God; you cannot have any other god but Me!–paraphrased)

Maran atha!

Angel ***

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi, YADA!.. my personal view is that the Israelites would have developed an enormous hatred and fear of the serpents that were attacking them and Yahweh use the image of that which they hated and feared to save them in order to show them that it is Yahweh who saves Israel–they only need to obey His Commandment and they live! …

Hmmm…

Very interesting.

And to think that this Serpent pre-figured Jesus on the Cross.

But to further you analogy, the hatred that the Israelites held for the serpents would have been comparable to the hatred that the Jews had for the Cross. It was an abominable means of execution and it was used on all people that rebelled against Rome’s authority, hence it was a sign to the Jews of what happens to those that resist Rome.

So what you’ve just done is add a parallel on top of this Typology! Wonderful!!!

 

[Volodymyr_988]

Hello forum!

I have a question for y’all.

[Note: I am Catholic. Please forgive me if it seems I’m playing devil’s advocate here…I just want to get my question across clearly!

I’ve been studying a lot of biblical apologetics lately, and I’ve stumbled upon something that’s been bugging me. The text in question is Exodus 32:4-6 --the Golden Calf. What my studies have led me to, to quote the footnote in the NAB, “…it is clear that the golden calf was intended as an image, not of a false god, but of the Lord himself, his strength being symbolized by the strength of a young bull. The Israelites, however, had been forbidden to represent the Lord under any visible form.”

So, it seems that they didn’t try to make their own god to worship (which is how I’d always understood the GC story), but rather wanted to worship God *through

this idol.
If this is correct, then how am I to understand praying to God through an intercessor? Like, say, the Blessed Mother…? The saints? They of course are people, but do we make them idols when we use them in our worship this way?

Also, statues, icons, holy pictures, etc: they are representations of things in heaven, so praying with them…couldn’t that be seen as dangerous territory?
(I know that icons are most integral to the Eastern Orthodox, but it’s a part of the Catholic faith, too.)

Personally, I’ve always seen religious statues and pictures, etc. more as reminders of things I love. When I look at the little St. Claire figure that’s right here on my computer, I don’t imagine that I’m communing with St. Claire, any more than I think the picture of my grandma on the fridge actually puts me in touch with my grandma. I just like to look at it, because I love her! The sacramental view of all of creation is one of the things I love the most about the Church.

In any case…When it comes to graven images, where exactly is the line and do we catholics ever cross it?

You have to remember that the Lord commanded Moses to make graven images in the 25th Chapter of Exodus:

And thou shalt put in the ark the testimony which I will give thee. Thou shalt make also a propitiatory of the purest gold: the length thereof shall be two cubits and a half, and the breadth a cubit and a half. Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered.
In which thou shalt put the testimony that I will give thee. Thence will I give orders, and will speak to thee over the propitiatory, and from the midst of the two cherubims, which shall be upon the ark of the testimony, all things which I will command the children of Israel by thee.

Then, only 7 Chapters later, He gets angry because they made graven images for themselves?

No, He was justly angered that they fell into the idolatry of the Egyptians that He had just delivered them from in Chapters 11-14. The Children of Israel had reverted into idolatry, adultery and fornication. That was what the Lord was angry about in the scenes at Mt. Sinai.

Here is the Catholic Encyclopedia on the Veneration of Images:

newadvent.org/cathen/07664a.htm

Here are the pertinent Sections from the Seventh Ecumenical Council, Nicaea II.

Anathemas concerning holy images

1. If anyone does not confess that Christ our God can be represented in his humanity, let him be anathema.
2. If anyone does not accept representation in art of evangelical scenes, let him be anathema.
3. If anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord and his saints, let him be anathema.
4. If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema.

geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/8920/churchcouncils/Ecum07.htm

 

[jcrichton]

Hmmm…

Very interesting.

And to think that this Serpent pre-figured Jesus on the Cross.

But to further you analogy, the hatred that the Israelites held for the serpents would have been comparable to the hatred that the Jews had for the Cross. It was an abominable means of execution and it was used on all people that rebelled against Rome’s authority, hence it was a sign to the Jews of what happens to those that resist Rome.

So what you’ve just done is add a parallel on top of this Typology! Wonderful!!!

***Hi, NotWorthy!

I am not clear on your comment… are you agreeing with me or dismissing my post?

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[NotWorthy]

***Hi, NotWorthy!

I am not clear on your comment… are you agreeing with me or dismissing my post?

Maran atha!

Angel***

No, I’m whole heartedly agreeing. Not only is there the typical typology between the serpent and Jesus’ Crucifixion, but you’ve just added the similarities in the Israelites/Jews revulsion to the normal attitude towards these things.

Again, very good work! And sorry about being ambiguous. I think sometimes I like to pick so much, that people are always trying to look for the sarcasm in my posts.

Mea Culpa!

 

[Werman]

Hello forum!

I have a question for y’all.

In any case…When it comes to graven images, where exactly is the line and do we Catholics ever cross it?

I would like to add this to my previous post of November 27, 2007 # 11.

From; newadvent.org/cathen/06628b.htm

Most writers have accepted the view of Philo and the early Fathers, who regarded the worship of the golden calves as borrowed from the Egyptians, and in favour of this opinion is the fact that both Aaron and Jeroboam had sojourned in Egypt shortly before constructing their respective idols; this view, however, has its difficulties, among which is the improbability of an Egyptian deity being set up as the god “who brought Israel out of the land of Egypt”. Hence, some recent scholars are inclined to seek the origin of the Hebrew bull worship in the conditions and surroundings of the Israelites as an agricultural people, for whom the bull was naturally an appropriate symbol of strength and vital energy.

Your question was; When it comes to graven images, where exactly is the line and do we Catholics ever cross it?

Examples; If am bowing or kneeling before one of the Saint’s statues – Statue of Mary or The Cross of Christ or Bread or Wine. Or other objects and living people we might bow – kneel – salute – or may remove our hat. If we are bowing – kneeling – saluting or removing our hats to any object as a deity. Then we would worship a graven a graven image or person. However if we were to bow – kneel - salute – or remove our hat to one of Royalty – Officer – Flag – or image as a matter of respect for it’s meaning. I would say this is the difference or the Line you speak of.

Simply put; if I praise anything over my God, I have crossed the line! However as a Catholic the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ not just blood and wine.

Thanks for reading.

Werman

 

[juliamajor]

Yahweh- the invisible God- cannot take any form and cannot be portrayed in a visible form- to do so would take away from His Dignity , Power and make Him resemble the other Gods of the Ancient Near East. Jesus, Mary and the saints- all real people solid and made of flesh can be portrayed because of the fact of their own physicality.Also in a pre literate society imagery was about the only way you could tell the stories of the Bible. If you look at icons you can see that they aren’t just nice to look at but tell a story- the use of colors and gestures all have a meaning enhancing that story. In ancient Romans many of the catacombs have drawings, art telling part of the Christian message-so imagery can be a great enhancement to biblical stories. Google Dura Europos images and you’ll see an ancient Synagogue where Biblical Stories abound.

 

[jcrichton]

Mea Culpa!

***Hi, NotWorthy!

I share on that (Mea Culpa) cause I placed too much attention to the extra exclamation marks at the end of your post (I’ve been accustomed to over-emphasys of ! as a negative–i.e.: this statement; not!–and the use of solid caps or huge fonts, also as negatives…). So I guess I’ve become sensitive to reading things that may or may not be there.

Thank you for the clarification; I will no longer expect your !s to mean anything but what you’ve stated on your post!

Maran atha!

Angel

---

 

[NotWorthy]

***Hi, NotWorthy!
Thank you for the clarification; I will no longer expect your !s to mean anything but what you’ve stated on your post!

---

Ooooh, that’ll get you burned!

No, seriously, I’m sorry about that. I never looked at it that way. I just love to hear new angles on something I’ve read and studied so many times (as long as it agrees with Catholic Doctrine, of course!).

Thanks again!!! (these are good exclamation points)