Good and Evil

[42Seeker]

A set of common refrains I hear among those more religious than I are:

1. Evil exists and is active in the world (i.e. It actually effects people’s lives for the worse)
2. God/Good exists and is active in the world
3. God is compassionate and caring and takes care of those who believe in him

And a corollary:

1. Even when bad things happen to good people, there must be reasons that God has allowed those bad things to happen. Somehow they help a greater good, they have saved that person some alternate suffering which was worse, or (in cases where no other rationale is meaningful) God has brought his child home where no further suffering need be born.

Which of these does the Catholic church actually teach?

It seems that if these are all true that God behaves more indifferently than he expects of us. We do our best to love our enemy, help those who have never helped us, and protect the weak from harm. He on the other hand allows (when it must be in his power to stop it) pure Evil to roam the streets.

How can God be omnipotent, omniscient, and the epitome of compassion, and yet tolerate Evil as a presence in the world? How can He not only allow war in the world, but, in the old testament, even go so far as demanding it of those who follow Him? How can He demand that the sins of a father fall on his son even to the point of putting entire families to death while simultaneously(ok, so a few books later) proclaiming that we must love our enemies?

How has God shown his love for His enemies? By smiting them?

How can God, who has killed and incited the killing of so many, be considered Good?

It seems when reading the Bible we must be told exactly how to look at it or else we might fail to see how Good God is, and how evil Evil is.

Temptation is Evil.
Killing is God’s work.

I am utterly confused.
Seeking 42

(My apologies if that seemed confrontational, I am just trying to get these questions out. )

 

[fhansen]

A set of common refrains I hear among those more religious than I are:

1. Evil exists and is active in the world (i.e. It actually effects people’s lives for the worse)
2. God/Good exists and is active in the world
3. God is compassionate and caring and takes care of those who believe in him

And a corollary:

1. Even when bad things happen to good people, there must be reasons that God has allowed those bad things to happen. Somehow they help a greater good, they have saved that person some alternate suffering which was worse, or (in cases where no other rationale is meaningful) God has brought his child home where no further suffering need be born.

Which of these does the Catholic church actually teach?

It seems that if these are all true that God behaves more indifferently than he expects of us. We do our best to love our enemy, help those who have never helped us, and protect the weak from harm. He on the other hand allows (when it must be in his power to stop it) pure Evil to roam the streets.

How can God be omnipotent, omniscient, and the epitome of compassion, and yet tolerate Evil as a presence in the world? How can He not only allow war in the world, but, in the old testament, even go so far as demanding it of those who follow Him? How can He demand that the sins of a father fall on his son even to the point of putting entire families to death while simultaneously(ok, so a few books later) proclaiming that we must love our enemies?

How has God shown his love for His enemies? By smiting them?

How can God, who has killed and incited the killing of so many, be considered Good?

It seems when reading the Bible we must be told exactly how to look at it or else we might fail to see how Good God is, and how evil Evil is.

Temptation is Evil.
Killing is God’s work.

I am utterly confused.
Seeking 42

(My apologies if that seemed confrontational, I am just trying to get these questions out. )

For Catholics, scripture isn’t directly authoritative-the Church is- and it’s her role to define-to the extent possible-the nature and will of God. In this life man is in exile from God and God keeps His distance, as with the owner of the vineyard in the parable of the tenants-and allows the tenants to be self-determining-deciding for themselves how they’ll treat others-IOW allowing them to play God which, according to the doctrine of Original Sin, is exactly the position man wanted. Man can become the hands of God or the hands of satan. In any case mans’ will pretty much has full reign here on earth, at least in terms of morality. Even when turning to Him in faith, even after being affected by the light that Jesus introduced into the world, it’s still our will that’s involved although not without the help of His grace. This places us in a radically free position where our faith and love for God and neighbor can truly be tested. If He were here in a more immediate manner this could not be the case.

 

[diggerdomer]

A set of common refrains I hear among those more religious than I are:

1. Evil exists and is active in the world (i.e. It actually effects people’s lives for the worse)
2. God/Good exists and is active in the world
3. God is compassionate and caring and takes care of those who believe in him

And a corollary:

1. Even when bad things happen to good people, there must be reasons that God has allowed those bad things to happen. Somehow they help a greater good, they have saved that person some alternate suffering which was worse, or (in cases where no other rationale is meaningful) God has brought his child home where no further suffering need be born.

Which of these does the Catholic church actually teach?

It seems that if these are all true that God behaves more indifferently than he expects of us. We do our best to love our enemy, help those who have never helped us, and protect the weak from harm. He on the other hand allows (when it must be in his power to stop it) pure Evil to roam the streets.

How can God be omnipotent, omniscient, and the epitome of compassion, and yet tolerate Evil as a presence in the world? How can He not only allow war in the world, but, in the old testament, even go so far as demanding it of those who follow Him? How can He demand that the sins of a father fall on his son even to the point of putting entire families to death while simultaneously(ok, so a few books later) proclaiming that we must love our enemies?

How has God shown his love for His enemies? By smiting them?

How can God, who has killed and incited the killing of so many, be considered Good?

It seems when reading the Bible we must be told exactly how to look at it or else we might fail to see how Good God is, and how evil Evil is.

Temptation is Evil.
Killing is God’s work.

I am utterly confused.
Seeking 42

(My apologies if that seemed confrontational, I am just trying to get these questions out. )

Read CCC 309. vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P19.HTM

There is no simple easy answer to the mystery of evil.

 

[RosaryFan]

A set of common refrains I hear among those more religious than I are:

1. Evil exists and is active in the world (i.e. It actually effects people’s lives for the worse)
2. God/Good exists and is active in the world
3. God is compassionate and caring and takes care of those who believe in him

And a corollary:

1. Even when bad things happen to good people, there must be reasons that God has allowed those bad things to happen. Somehow they help a greater good, they have saved that person some alternate suffering which was worse, or (in cases where no other rationale is meaningful) God has brought his child home where no further suffering need be born.

Which of these does the Catholic church actually teach?

It seems that if these are all true that God behaves more indifferently than he expects of us. We do our best to love our enemy, help those who have never helped us, and protect the weak from harm. He on the other hand allows (when it must be in his power to stop it) pure Evil to roam the streets.

How can God be omnipotent, omniscient, and the epitome of compassion, and yet tolerate Evil as a presence in the world? How can He not only allow war in the world, but, in the old testament, even go so far as demanding it of those who follow Him? How can He demand that the sins of a father fall on his son even to the point of putting entire families to death while simultaneously(ok, so a few books later) proclaiming that we must love our enemies?

How has God shown his love for His enemies? By smiting them?

How can God, who has killed and incited the killing of so many, be considered Good?

It seems when reading the Bible we must be told exactly how to look at it or else we might fail to see how Good God is, and how evil Evil is.

Temptation is Evil.
Killing is God’s work.

I am utterly confused.
Seeking 42

(My apologies if that seemed confrontational, I am just trying to get these questions out. )

That’s a lot to answer, but in a nutshell, since evil has infiltrated us and God has given us free will, there is no other choice but for God to allow the evil and to use it for a greater good (even if the use is not obvious to us). Otherwise, we’re just a bunch of puppets on God’s string with no free will and no choices of our own to make.

 

[thistle]

A set of common refrains I hear among those more religious than I are:

1. Evil exists and is active in the world (i.e. It actually effects people’s lives for the worse)
2. God/Good exists and is active in the world
3. God is compassionate and caring and takes care of those who believe in him

And a corollary:

1. Even when bad things happen to good people, there must be reasons that God has allowed those bad things to happen. Somehow they help a greater good, they have saved that person some alternate suffering which was worse, or (in cases where no other rationale is meaningful) God has brought his child home where no further suffering need be born.

Which of these does the Catholic church actually teach?

It seems that if these are all true that God behaves more indifferently than he expects of us. We do our best to love our enemy, help those who have never helped us, and protect the weak from harm. He on the other hand allows (when it must be in his power to stop it) pure Evil to roam the streets.

How can God be omnipotent, omniscient, and the epitome of compassion, and yet tolerate Evil as a presence in the world? How can He not only allow war in the world, but, in the old testament, even go so far as demanding it of those who follow Him? How can He demand that the sins of a father fall on his son even to the point of putting entire families to death while simultaneously(ok, so a few books later) proclaiming that we must love our enemies?

How has God shown his love for His enemies? By smiting them?

How can God, who has killed and incited the killing of so many, be considered Good?

It seems when reading the Bible we must be told exactly how to look at it or else we might fail to see how Good God is, and how evil Evil is.

Temptation is Evil.
Killing is God’s work.

I am utterly confused.
Seeking 42

(My apologies if that seemed confrontational, I am just trying to get these questions out. )

I recommend a book called Why Does God Permit Evil by Dom Bruno Webb.

 

[SSTeacher]

A set of common refrains I hear among those more religious than I are:

1. Evil exists and is active in the world (i.e. It actually effects people’s lives for the worse)
2. God/Good exists and is active in the world
3. God is compassionate and caring and takes care of those who believe in him

And a corollary:

1. Even when bad things happen to good people, there must be reasons that God has allowed those bad things to happen. Somehow they help a greater good, they have saved that person some alternate suffering which was worse, or (in cases where no other rationale is meaningful) God has brought his child home where no further suffering need be born.

Which of these does the Catholic church actually teach?

It seems that if these are all true that God behaves more indifferently than he expects of us. We do our best to love our enemy, help those who have never helped us, and protect the weak from harm. He on the other hand allows (when it must be in his power to stop it) pure Evil to roam the streets.

How can God be omnipotent, omniscient, and the epitome of compassion, and yet tolerate Evil as a presence in the world? How can He not only allow war in the world, but, in the old testament, even go so far as demanding it of those who follow Him? How can He demand that the sins of a father fall on his son even to the point of putting entire families to death while simultaneously(ok, so a few books later) proclaiming that we must love our enemies?

How has God shown his love for His enemies? By smiting them?

How can God, who has killed and incited the killing of so many, be considered Good?

It seems when reading the Bible we must be told exactly how to look at it or else we might fail to see how Good God is, and how evil Evil is.

Temptation is Evil.
Killing is God’s work.

I am utterly confused.
Seeking 42

(My apologies if that seemed confrontational, I am just trying to get these questions out. )

Hi 42Seeker,

I can’t answer any of your questions. I’ve considered all of them at one time or another and I still haven’t come up with one single definitive answer. I do believe that God is love and I do believe that Jesus is divine (can’t prove those beliefs, of course) so my stance apropos these questions is simply to declare that I choose to give God the benefit of the doubt. The alternative, as far as I can see, is either to live one’s life completely ignoring these questions or to get so mad at the situation that the end result will inevitably be vitriolic thoughts of bitter hatred and acrimony at the mere mention of God.

If you ever do find yourself in receipt of a definitive answer that you think qualifies as satisfactory feel free to let me know what it is.

Curiously,
Mick

 

[MilitaryWife91]

Hello,

Have you read The Shack? It’s a nice allegory, and attempts to ‘help’ a person understand God’s point of view regarding evil in the world.

Take care,
MW

 

[SSTeacher]

Hello,

Have you read The Shack? It’s a nice allegory, and attempts to ‘help’ a person understand God’s point of view regarding evil in the world.

Take care,
MW

Hi MW,

Thanks for the suggestion. I googled it and discovered that you can get free access to the first chapter here.

Helpfully,
Mick

 

[Pax]

42Seeker,

I’ll try answering a couple of things here. First off, God created us in his image and likeness. This means that we have spirit, intellect, and free will. God’s gift of free will is a significant component of being a human being, and God sees it as sufficiently important to allow for sin. The choosing of God and that which is good gives much greater glory to God than would be the case if there was no choice.

God punishes by way of his perfect justice. Mercy comes first then justice. We are really aren’t in a position to know, to understand, or to make judgments about God’s punishments. Our musings on such things are of no greater significance than the musings of a microbe when a man applies an antibiotic against it. The distance and separation between God and man is such that we simply cannot grasp the significance of God’s actions in punishing man especially since God has the entire bundle of rights over his creation. It is within God’s perfect knowledge, justice, and mercy to do what is fitting in his eyes. We simply are not in a position to know or see much of anything when it comes to God’s knowledge and judgments.

I hope this helps.