Good & Bad reasons to change rites?

[Basilian]

Brethren, I’m a Latin-rite Catholic looking into entering the Ukrainian-Greek Catholic Church, sui iuris. Unfortunately, the only UGCC parish in my area is a Mission, which has the Divine Liturgy once a month, celebrated by a pastor who has to travel far to get to it.

I admit that my interest in the western Mass - OF and EF - has fallen sharply in the last few years. I would not say “escaping the Latin rite” is my reason for changing rites, though in all honesty I prefer the Eastern liturgies. If one is merely “interested in Eastern spirituality” - as many are - is this a bad reason to want to become an Eastern Catholic? I yearn to be with them in all things, not merely “pretending” to be Eastern - but truly being within the Rite.

My intention is to enter completely into Eastern Catholic life. I have no desire to be ordained, so I am not trying to escape celibacy. My entire family is atheist, and I am the only Catholic of any sort, so there are no familial ties to strengthen by a rite-change. No other insufficient reasons seem to come to my mind, but I’d like to know what you think.

What is good, and what is bad, in terms of the Rite Change?

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

This very question has been weighing on my mind lately. To me there is only really one “bad” reason to change from West to East, and there is really only one “good” reason as well. The bad reason is that one is discontent with the way things are in the West. Trust me, if you are discontent with the West, you will find plenty to be discontent about in the East as well.

The only good reason, it seems to me, to go from West to East is because one truly finds one’s spiritual home in the East; in other words, the East is where one’s heart is transformed by the Gospel. Such a change cannot be seen as a fleeing from the West. Rather, it is an embracing of one tradition while fully affirming the other.

 

[Basilian]

This is good wisdom, brother.

Indeed, to flee to another church because of the human element of one’s own church is not to realize the universal sinfulness of regular men. You will only meet the same brick wall which you had fled before. I believe the Latin rite to be venerable, holy, and glorious - but for my personal loves, the Ukrainian-Byzantine world is heaven on Earth.

A true spiritual home must be what is sought… full tradition must be affirmed… the whole Gospel must be the transformation of the heart, no matter where? Very good thoughts, thank you.

 

[Miserissima]

This very question has been weighing on my mind lately. To me there is only really one “bad” reason to change from West to East, and there is really only one “good” reason as well. The bad reason is that one is discontent with the way things are in the West. Trust me, if you are discontent with the West, you will find plenty to be discontent about in the East as well.

The only good reason, it seems to me, to go from West to East is because one truly finds one’s spiritual home in the East; in other words, the East is where one’s heart is transformed by the Gospel. Such a change cannot be seen as a fleeing from the West. Rather, it is an embracing of one tradition while fully affirming the other.

Best answer^^

I wish I could add to it, but you nailed it.

 

[Peter_J]

Brethren, I’m a Latin-rite Catholic looking into entering the Ukrainian-Greek Catholic Church, sui iuris. Unfortunately, the only UGCC parish in my area is a Mission, which has the Divine Liturgy once a month, celebrated by a pastor who has to travel far to get to it.

I admit that my interest in the western Mass - OF and EF - has fallen sharply in the last few years. I would not say “escaping the Latin rite” is my reason for changing rites, though in all honesty I prefer the Eastern liturgies. If one is merely “interested in Eastern spirituality” - as many are - is this a bad reason to want to become an Eastern Catholic? I yearn to be with them in all things, not merely “pretending” to be Eastern - but truly being within the Rite.

My intention is to enter completely into Eastern Catholic life. I have no desire to be ordained, so I am not trying to escape celibacy. My entire family is atheist, and I am the only Catholic of any sort, so there are no familial ties to strengthen by a rite-change. No other insufficient reasons seem to come to my mind, but I’d like to know what you think.

What is good, and what is bad, in terms of the Rite Change?

Good questions. I don’t believe there are easy answers to them, but I would say: don’t worry too much about whether you will decide to changes rites/churches. Just try to live in the present. (one very specific issue/question that probably occupies you is where to go on the other three Sundays of the month.)

Btw, about how long have you been going there?

 

[Vico]

Brethren, I’m a Latin-rite Catholic looking into entering the Ukrainian-Greek Catholic Church, sui iuris. Unfortunately, the only UGCC parish in my area is a Mission, which has the Divine Liturgy once a month, celebrated by a pastor who has to travel far to get to it.

I admit that my interest in the western Mass - OF and EF - has fallen sharply in the last few years. I would not say “escaping the Latin rite” is my reason for changing rites, though in all honesty I prefer the Eastern liturgies. If one is merely “interested in Eastern spirituality” - as many are - is this a bad reason to want to become an Eastern Catholic? I yearn to be with them in all things, not merely “pretending” to be Eastern - but truly being within the Rite.

My intention is to enter completely into Eastern Catholic life. I have no desire to be ordained, so I am not trying to escape celibacy. My entire family is atheist, and I am the only Catholic of any sort, so there are no familial ties to strengthen by a rite-change. No other insufficient reasons seem to come to my mind, but I’d like to know what you think.

What is good, and what is bad, in terms of the Rite Change?

Sufficient reasons:

• Unification of Church sui iuris in a family (mother, father).
• Return to the Church sui iuris of one’s ancestors.
• Spouse who wishes to transfer for peace and unity in the home.
• Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.
• Domicile and or activity among those who are almost all of another Church sui iuris.
• Entry into religious life under different Church sui iuris.
• Incardination to serve different Church sui iuris.

Insufficient reasons:

• Education, attending school or church or sacraments, in another Church, or ignorance of own Church sui iuris with good knowledge of other Church sui iuris.
• Good for the soul (because all churches are good for the soul).
• Defects in a Church (because all churches are have defects).
• Peace of mind or conscience cannot be judged.

Follow own Church sui iuris rules concerning:

• Holy days and penitential seasons.
• Fasting and abstinance.
• Proscriptions for baptism, confirmation, first confession, first communion, marriage, holy orders, annointing.
• May receive Holy Confession and Holy Eucharist in any Church sui iuris.
• Contribute to the support of universal Church and Church sui iuris.

CIC Can. 112

§1 After the reception of baptism, the following become members of another autonomous ritual Church:
1° those who have obtained permission from the Apostolic See;
2° a spouse who, on entering marriage or during its course, has declared that he or she is transferring to the autonomous ritual Church of the other spouse; on the dissolution of the marriage, however, that person may freely return to the latin Church;
3° the children of those mentioned in nn. 1 and 2 who have not completed their fourteenth year, and likewise in a mixed marriage the children of a catholic party who has lawfully transferred to another ritual Church; on completion of their fourteenth year, however, they may return to the latin Church.
§2 The practice, however long standing, of receiving the sacraments according to the rite of an autonomous ritual Church, does not bring with it membership of that Church.

Canon 112 (NCCCL, Beal, Coriden, Green)
“… because ascription to a ritual church is definitive, it belongs to the status of persons.”

“In effect, the canon distinguishes membership from liturgical practice. This means that change of ritual church membership occurs in one of the three ways provided for in paragraph one.”

 

[Basilian]

Peter J, thank you for the reply. Your advice is very good.

Although I am very familiar with the Divine Liturgy, its rites, hymns, and propers, I have actually not begun attending any eastern rite liturgy. The scarcity of them in this place, as well as the nearly impossible location when celebrated, renders the act nearly impossible. This thread is, therefore, almost entirely theoretical. Given my circumstances, any change of rites probably won’t be taking place for many years. I’m looking for advice, I guess… but perhaps on a subject that isn’t even practical. I suppose I’d have to move somewhere totally new to change rites, given the requirement of practical familiarity and a stable parish. Shame.

Vico, thank you very much for these guidelines.

I am puzzled by sufficient reason #4: * “Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.”* What sort of “permanent moral impossibility” could occur in the Latin Church that one wouldn’t encounter in the other rites? Interesting.

 

[Vico]

Peter J, thank you for the reply. Your advice is very good.

Although I am very familiar with the Divine Liturgy, its rites, hymns, and propers, I have actually not begun attending any eastern rite liturgy. The scarcity of them in this place, as well as the nearly impossible location when celebrated, renders the act nearly impossible. This thread is, therefore, almost entirely theoretical. Given my circumstances, any change of rites probably won’t be taking place for many years. I’m looking for advice, I guess… but perhaps on a subject that isn’t even practical. I suppose I’d have to move somewhere totally new to change rites, given the requirement of practical familiarity and a stable parish. Shame.

Vico, thank you very much for these guidelines.

I am puzzled by sufficient reason #4: * “Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.”* What sort of “permanent moral impossibility” could occur in the Latin Church that one wouldn’t encounter in the other rites? Interesting.

It can happen during political takeovers, of if moving to an area with no church of your own ascription. One example of where there are no Latin Catholic churches is the State of Eritrea but there are Ethiopian Catholic churches. (Moral impossibility is opposed to natural impossibility, meaning extremely difficult, even though possible.)

Generally the idea is to ensure that eastern Catholics preserve their traditions, but sometimes a Latin Catholic can transfer to help preserve the eastern Catholic churches which have so few members.

 

[grandfather]

The local RC parish had some problems. The pastor who was sent there to build a big church, because he had a reputation of raising money ended up sentenced to 15 years for crimes with altar boys. Quite a few associate pastors left the church. Then another pastor was charged with abuse. Then an associate was the editor and founder of a radical gay magazine. At a Mass for college students another pastor climbed up on the altar to preach. Then an associate baptized two gay men who were living together full immersion in the nude.
An ex nun was the dre who was married to an ex priest. I could go on.

I shopped around for another parish after confronting the bishop about the craziness. There were some that were some better, but by that time I had developed a heightened sense of wariness. One parish had no tabernacle. It was not off and hidden somewhere. There was none. Another had silly dancers. By chance I went to a Divine Liturgy about an hours drive from my home. That was over twenty years ago. It was all it took. I never looked back and do not have a single regret.

The majority of this parish is comprised today of RC refugees like me. We have found a place to worship in peace not in agony and anger. If the shoe fits wear it.

 

[Peter_J]

Peter J, thank you for the reply. Your advice is very good.

Although I am very familiar with the Divine Liturgy, its rites, hymns, and propers, I have actually not begun attending any eastern rite liturgy. The scarcity of them in this place, as well as the nearly impossible location when celebrated, renders the act nearly impossible. This thread is, therefore, almost entirely theoretical. Given my circumstances, any change of rites probably won’t be taking place for many years. I’m looking for advice, I guess… but perhaps on a subject that isn’t even practical. I suppose I’d have to move somewhere totally new to change rites, given the requirement of practical familiarity and a stable parish. Shame.

Thank you for clarifying. I thought you meant that there was a monthly DL that’s accessible to you.

Btw, it occurs to me that you might do additional checking for GC/OC parishes in your area. There are a number of ways of checking, but none of them are perfect so it’s best to use more than one. (Have you already checked the ByzCath website?)

 

[Basilian]

Vico, thank you for the clarification.

grandfather, as ashamed as I am to admit it, things such as those are partly my reason for wanting to switch rites. Thankfully, my strongest reason is that the Byzantine rite offers a spiritual home with fresh daily bread for my soul. This is what comes first.

Peter J, there is a monthly ukrainian DL, but it is too remote for me to be sure that I can attend it every time. The Maronites exist here, but I am not very good with semitic languages and there is a lot of latinization. As for other byzantine rite parishes, there are none - except the Orthodox, who are clearly not an option here.

Yes, ByzCath was my first place for information.

In all, I see that canonically I ought to celebrate with my sui iuris church in terms of fasts, feasts, etc., but I really would like to “live the East” and “practice the East”, without feeling like a pretender or a pompous outsider. We’ll see what God has in store. I’ll be calling the Ukrainian-Greek mission soon.

 

[Peter_J]

Peter J, there is a monthly ukrainian DL, but it is too remote for me to be sure that I can attend it every time. The Maronites exist here, but I am not very good with semitic languages and there is a lot of latinization

Physically, my situation is the reverse of yours: the nearest Maronite parish is a long drive, but there’s a GC parish (two actually) in my town. I went to the Maronite parish a handful of times several years ago, but it was too far for me. (The language and Latinizations were issues for me as well.)

Anyhow, there are many good YouTube recordings of DLs; but mostly I hope you can find an LC parish that you can sink your teeth into (whether that means starting an “Eastern study group” or whatever).

 

[babochka]

Sufficient reasons:

• Unification of Church sui iuris in a family (mother, father).
• Return to the Church sui iuris of one’s ancestors.
• Spouse who wishes to transfer for peace and unity in the home.
• Physical or moral impossibility by permanent circumstances to use one’s own Church sui iuris.
• Domicile and or activity among those who are almost all of another Church sui iuris.
• Entry into religious life under different Church sui iuris.
• Incardination to serve different Church sui iuris.

Insufficient reasons:

• Education, attending school or church or sacraments, in another Church, or ignorance of own Church sui iuris with good knowledge of other Church sui iuris.
• Good for the soul (because all churches are good for the soul).
• Defects in a Church (because all churches are have defects).
• Peace of mind or conscience cannot be judged.

Follow own Church sui iuris rules concerning:

• Holy days and penitential seasons.
• Fasting and abstinance.
• Proscriptions for baptism, confirmation, first confession, first communion, marriage, holy orders, annointing.
• May receive Holy Confession and Holy Eucharist in any Church sui iuris.
• Contribute to the support of universal Church and Church sui iuris.

What is the source for this list of reasons?

 

[babochka]

The majority of this parish is comprised today of RC refugees like me. .

I guess I’m not really sure how the term RC refugee is used in situations like this. There are many ways in which people might find their way into a Byzantine Church: chance, desperately running away from liturgical abuse, attraction to the liturgy, dissatisfaction with Latin spirituality, searching, but not really knowing what one is searching for, invited by a friend, exploring the diversity of the church. To me, RC refugees are those who have found a refuge in the Byzantine Rite and enjoy the liturgy, but remain firmly Latin in their theology, spirituality and outlook. They are away from their true home and are saddened by it, even though they have built a life elsewhere. We have such parishioners, and they are welcome in our parish. As an example, some come for liturgy every Sunday, but they will go to confession in the Latin Rite, because they are firmly entrenched in the idea of “anonymous” confession. But most people from the Latin Rite who stay come to embrace our theology and way of life. They are influenced by our culture enough that they make a true home in our rite. I don’t consider those people to be refugees, although they might have come to us as such.

 

[rdorseyhsd]

I have been attending a Byzantine Church for a dozen years and expect to for the rest of my life so that it made sense to me to transfer from the Latin Church. I have no quarrel with the Latin Church. But from the first, I was struck by the beauty of the church, the icons, vestments, liturgies and spirituality of the Byzantines. It helps that we have a brilliant priest who teaches theology to the congregation at a level I have never seen before. Even though I have been disappointed in some Byzantine Churches, I find I am more uplifted by attending the Byzantine liturgies.

 

[Vico]

What is the source for this list of reasons?

It is from a Ph.D.Thesis (Ph.D.)–University of Ottawa (Canada), 2001 by Rev. Laszlo Nagy: **Transfer of ascription in a church sui iuris with particular application to the archdiocese of Alba-Iulia, Romania, **p. 195-196.

ruor.uottawa.ca/en/handle/10393/9020

Most everything regarding canon law for the east is from these two sources:

Inter-Ecclesial Relations Between Eastern and Latin Catholics: A Canonical-Pastoral Handbook
by Dimitri Salachas & Krzysztof Nitkiewicz,
English Edition by George Dmitry Gallaro, 2009, 157 pp.,
ISBN 1-932208-23-2

Comparative Sacramental Discipline in the CCEO and CIC,
edited by Francis J. Marini, 272 pp.,
ISBN 1-932208-01-01

clsa.site-ym.com/store/view_…asp?id=315681

 

[starac]

Brethren, I’m a Latin-rite Catholic looking into entering the Ukrainian-Greek Catholic Church, sui iuris. Unfortunately, the only UGCC parish in my area is a Mission, which has the Divine Liturgy once a month, celebrated by a pastor who has to travel far to get to it.

I admit that my interest in the western Mass - OF and EF - has fallen sharply in the last few years. I would not say “escaping the Latin rite” is my reason for changing rites, though in all honesty I prefer the Eastern liturgies. If one is merely “interested in Eastern spirituality” - as many are - is this a bad reason to want to become an Eastern Catholic? I yearn to be with them in all things, not merely “pretending” to be Eastern - but truly being within the Rite.

My intention is to enter completely into Eastern Catholic life. I have no desire to be ordained, so I am not trying to escape celibacy. My entire family is atheist, and I am the only Catholic of any sort, so there are no familial ties to strengthen by a rite-change. No other insufficient reasons seem to come to my mind, but I’d like to know what you think.

What is good, and what is bad, in terms of the Rite Change?

 

[Basilian]

Thank you everyone for the good and sensible replies.

I am feeling very sad today. I’ve learned that the Ukrainian Mission truly lives up to its name: there are 19 families comprising about 30 people once a month. Sometimes it’s canceled. The parishioners aren’t even Ukrainian, but are mostly Latin-rite Catholics who just want some diversity in their liturgical life. The UGCC priest from far away is very busy, and he does not answer his email. That is the situation.

There is no way for me to become Eastern Catholic, either in canonical Rite or just in simple practice and attendance. I am deeply saddened and discouraged. I’m just not a “Latin soul”, you know? The prayers of the West simply do not speak to me as those of the East. I can’t just skip Mass, obviously, but it pains me to go to Mass because it’s celebrated in so empty a fashion by the priests around here. I’m poor, so I can’t move out of this province for many years.

Sorry if this sounds like self-pity. I am wondering why God has implanted such a love for the slavic and byzantine traditions in my heart… and yet has put me as far away from their parishes as possible? If only the Great Schism had not happened! Such sorrow! How do you even live the life of the Eastern Rites if you have no one to be in fellowship with?

 

[Peter_J]

Thank you everyone for the good and sensible replies.

I am feeling very sad today.** I’ve learned that the Ukrainian Mission truly lives up to its name: there are 19 families comprising about 30 people once a month. Sometimes it’s canceled. The parishioners aren’t even Ukrainian**, but are mostly Latin-rite Catholics who just want some diversity in their liturgical life. The UGCC priest from far away is very busy, and he does not answer his email. That is the situation.

Sorry to hear you’re down.

I’m a bit confused by the highlighted … I thought you were going to say the opposite, that the parish is extremely ethnic.

 

[Basilian]

Sorry to hear you’re down.

I’m a bit confused by the highlighted … I thought you were going to say the opposite, that the parish is extremely ethnic.

Thank you for the sympathy.

Sorry I was a little dramatic in my presentation of the issue. I’m sure some of them are Ukrainian, but it’s basically just an amalgamation of various Latin-rite parishioners rather than any sort of community. Christian family is very essential in any parish, and not to have that is a very bad sign for the health of a parish.

I will wait. I will find a way to buy a chotki or vervitsa. I will pray St. Pachomius’ Rule. Anything that can attach me to the depths of my spiritual home… God is good. He will provide.