Good Friday, Could it have been Wedensday?

[Mark_Falcon]

DId Jesus die on a Friday or a Wednesday?

Did the women buy spices before or after the sabbath?

Mark and Luke seem to disagree. Mark 16:1.

Does any one know for sure?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Did Jesus die on a Friday or a Wednesday?

He died on a Friday. Jesus was Crucified on Friday and died at around 3 pm. He remain dead for three days. Friday, Saturday, and rose on third Day which is Sunday.

Did the women buy spices before or after the sabbath?

Spices were bought before the Sabbath so it can be prepare for the Sabbath.

Note to other Catholics: Correct me if my information is not accurate.

Mark and Luke seem to disagree. Mark 16:1.

Does any one know for sure?

Let’s take a look at the passage in Mark 16:1

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.

If you read the passage it said, when the Sabbath was past (or the day after the Sabbath. The Sabbath is Saturn’s Day or Saturday. The day after Sabbath is Sunday. Therefore, Jesus rose on Sunday.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

A Wednesday Crucifixion is an argument that some Saturday Sabbath Keepers use to win support for their cause (continuing their argument that Jesus rose from the dead on a Saturday).

But the historical and scientific evidence is overwhelming; The crucifixion took place on Friday 3rd April 33AD.

 

[Mark_Falcon]

Thank you for your posts. Charlie, Your link to the other thread is interesting.

One part that I can not figure out is:
Mark 16:1 states “When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices …”
yet
Luke 23:55-56 states “The women … returned and prepared spices and perfumed oils. Then they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment”

These two verses seem to contradict each other.

Some use these verses, along with the “Sign of Jonah” to say there were two sabbaths on Holy Week. And that Jesus died prior to the first one.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

DId Jesus die on a Friday or a Wednesday?

Did the women buy spices before or after the sabbath?

Mark and Luke seem to disagree. Mark 16:1.

Does any one know for sure?

One cause of a problem, which most seem not to notice is that Galileans changed the day at sunrise, while Judeans at sunset.
Thus Mary came to the tomb ‘towards the end of the Sabbath, as the sun was rising’.
For Galileans, living in Judea, then, the sabbath lasted 36 hours.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Thank you for your posts. Charlie, Your link to the other thread is interesting.

One part that I can not figure out is:
Mark 16:1 states “When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices …”
yet
Luke 23:55-56 states “The women … returned and prepared spices and perfumed oils. Then they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment”

These two verses seem to contradict each other.

Some use these verses, along with the “Sign of Jonah” to say there were two sabbaths on Holy Week. And that Jesus died prior to the first one.

42It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath).

47Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses** saw where he was laid.** 1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body.

2Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?” -Mark 16

54**It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

** 55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. -Luke 24
The only real conflict appears to be “bought” vs “prepared” spices. Both say they went to anoint after the Sabbath. I dont think there is a real issue here. The could have easily prepared what spices they had at home and bought more later.

Further, the time frame is not really in conflict, both indicate they rested on the Sabbath, v56 does not necessarily mean they prepared before the Sabbath, only that they observed the sabbath.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Luke 23:55-56 states “The women … returned and prepared spices and perfumed oils. Then they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment” …

Hi Mark,

With all due respect, I think you have a very poor translation of Luke 23:56. The “Then” that you quoted is probably the source of your confusion.

I’m guessing that they rested on the Sabbath (ie, Saturday), and then bought and prepared spices on the Sunday. :twocents:

I hope the following link, which shows 13 different translations, is helpful…
bible.cc/luke/23-56.htm

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Thank you for your posts. Charlie, Your link to the other thread is interesting.

One part that I can not figure out is:
Mark 16:1 states “When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices …”
yet
Luke 23:55-56 states “The women … returned and prepared spices and perfumed oils. Then they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment”

These two verses seem to contradict each other.

Some use these verses, along with the “Sign of Jonah” to say there were two sabbaths on Holy Week. And that Jesus died prior to the first one.

Without looking I believe it is stated somewhere that someone had some spices to place Him in the tomb with on Friday before sundown. Could it not be that they went and purchased or intended to purchase more after sundown Saturday. Which would have been after the Sabbath.

 

[apophasis]

DId Jesus die on a Friday or a Wednesday?

Did the women buy spices before or after the sabbath?

Mark and Luke seem to disagree. Mark 16:1.

Does any one know for sure?

Actually, according to the Gospel account of John, Jesus probably died on Thursday, the “day of preparation.” The “sabbath” that followed was not the seventh-day sabbath (Saturday) but the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread: “For that Sabbath was a high day” (see Jn. 19:31). He was in the tomb Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night. Three days and three nights just as Jesus said He would be (Matt. 12:40).

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Thank you for your posts. Charlie, Your link to the other thread is interesting.

One part that I can not figure out is:
Mark 16:1 states “When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices …”
yet
Luke 23:55-56 states “The women … returned and prepared spices and perfumed oils. Then they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment”

These two verses seem to contradict each other.

Some use these verses, along with the “Sign of Jonah” to say there were two sabbaths on Holy Week. And that Jesus died prior to the first one.

There is a contraction there. Either the women bought the spices on the evening of Saturday, that is after the Sabbath, as Mark claims, or they somehow had spices ready on Friday afternoon, as Luke says. Writing about twenty to thirty years after the event,the gospel writers make some errors. The main point that the preparations for the burial of Jesus were disrupted by the Sabbath seems fair enough, and seems to establish the day as Friday.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… He was in the tomb Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night. Three days and three nights just as Jesus said He would be (Matt. 12:40).

Hi apophasis,

You’re making an assumption that the “depths of the earth” (in regards to The Sign of Jonah) means to be buried. I don’t think this is true because Jesus was never buried, but laid to rest in an above ground tomb.

My favourite interpretation of The Sign of Jonah is given by Jen Schroder from BlessedCause.org Ministry. She teaches that the “depths of the earth” refers to Jesus suffering in our sin; This started on the Thursday night when he was betrayed by Judas and denied by Peter.

I’d encourage you to visit the following link; It’s fascinating and convincing…
blessedcause.org/BlessedCause%20Exclusives/The%20Sign%20of%20Jonah.htm

P.S. It’s interesting to note that there are ten (10) references by Jesus regarding the three (3) days… and each time, it begins with Him being handed over to the authorities; ie, Thursday night. (Mt 16:21; Mt 17:22-23; Mt 20:18-19; Mk 8:31; Mk 9:31; Mk 10:33-34; Lk 9:22; Lk 18:32-33; Lk 24:7; Lk 24:46.)

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

There is a contraction there. Either the women bought the spices on the evening of Saturday, that is after the Sabbath, as Mark claims, or they somehow had spices ready on Friday afternoon, as Luke says. Writing about twenty to thirty years after the event,the gospel writers make some errors. The main point that the preparations for the burial of Jesus were disrupted by the Sabbath seems fair enough, and seems to establish the day as Friday.

No, the women were Galileans, to them, the Sabbath ended at SUNRISE. While in Judea though, it was a political necessity ot respect the Judean calendar, and start the Sabbath at sunset, hence they observed a 36 hour Sabbath.

 

[apophasis]

You’re making an assumption that the “depths of the earth” (in regards to The Sign of Jonah) means to be buried. I don’t think this is true because Jesus was never buried, but laid to rest in an above ground tomb.

The phrase is poetic language for being buried (entombed) after death

My favourite interpretation of The Sign of Jonah is given by Jen Schroder from BlessedCause.org Ministry. She teaches that the “depths of the earth” refers to Jesus suffering in our sin; This started on the Thursday night when he was betrayed by Judas and denied by Peter.

This can’t just be your “favorite” interpretation, it must be the ONLY interpretation offered to man since she states that it is directly from God Himself:"I know there are many long scholarly explanations about this, but none of them seemed right, so I asked God if He would explain it to me in His word. No sooner had I asked than I heard that small voice say, "It began before He was crucified."She first states that none of the interpretations offered by scholars “seemed right” to her so she asked God to explain it to her directly. God supposedly agreed that no Biblical scholar had interpreted correctly and by means of “a small voice” He gave her the key that finally unlocked that which no scholar could, nor the Scriptures themselves. And this “small voice” she asserts was God Himself (how I don’t know; and obviously you do as well).

The key that unlocked the mystery being “It began before He was crucified.” “It” being: (1) His work of redemption, (2) the countdown of three days and three nights.

She makes the fantastic statement that “Jesus was separated from God and immersed in our sin on the night He was betrayed.” And being “immersed in our sin” He was at that moment separated from God:*The miracle of Christ’s redemption began on Thursday night when Christ became sin, the night He was betrayed, immersed in our sins and delivered unto man. Before the first drop of His precious blood, Jesus suffered far more than physical death, He became sin which separated Him from His Father, in the heart of the earth, in the belly of the whale…*She then goes on to say that after Jesus was “immersed in our sin” He no longer spoke in God’s authority because from that point of time “His relationship with God had been severed.” Hence, that which He said at His trial and on the cross must be considered highly suspect since according to her they were the words of a mere sinner, separated from God. Such a notion is not only blasphemous but heretical.

Charlie, I hardly know what to say to you. The woman makes huge theological blunders. She presents what she claims to be a divinely provided esoteric explanation of a simple Biblical text rather than just accept the ordinary words of Scripture. There is no question that the three days and three night refers to how long Jesus would be entombed after His physical death on the cross. According to the detailed account in the Gospel account of John, Jesus was crucified and buried (entombed) on Thursday and rose bodily from the dead on Sunday: three days and three nights.

Her esoteric interpretation of Mark. 14:51 regarding the young man who followed dressed only in linen is also way out there. There’s nothing arcane about this bit of information. Some scholars see him to be Mark himself. He was an eyewitness of the historical event.

May I suggest to you that when someone claims God spoke directly to them that you regard that person and what they say with great suspicion.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Charlie, I hardly know what to say to you. The woman makes huge theological blunders…

May I suggest to you that when someone claims God spoke directly to them that you regard that person and what they say with great suspicion.

Absolutely.

I completely accept that Jen Schroder is being boastful about her direct encounter with God. And, just for the record, I didn’t believe it.

Nevertheless, her biblical references are outstanding. That’s why I regard it as “my favourite interpretation”.

That’s why I checked all references by Jesus in the bible in regards to the three (3) days. Everytime, he starts with being handed over to the authorities and raising up on the third day. Everytime! That’s ten times! (I gave you the bible verses above.)

Even without Jen Schroder, surely those ten (10) biblical verses account for something.

According to the detailed account in the Gospel account of John, Jesus was crucified and buried (entombed) on Thursday and rose bodily from the dead on Sunday: three days and three nights.

Sorry, but now you’re being foolish. You are not only going against scripture but you’re going against 2,000 years of tradition.

I am confident in the scriptural, historical and scientific evidence that the crucifixion took place on Friday 3rd April 33AD. Why don’t you check the following link and give me your thoughts…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1706005#post1706005

 

[annem]

Regarding the date of Good Friday, does anyone know about the two types of dating in existence at the time of the death of Jesus? Apparently the Essenes calculated the day of Passover one way, while the majority of Jews held to different one. Does anyone know any more about this, or what book might have more information on it? I have heard it suggested a difference in date might explain all the time problems regarding the crucifixion.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Regarding the date of Good Friday, does anyone know about the two types of dating in existence at the time of the death of Jesus? Apparently the Essenes calculated the day of Passover one way, while the majority of Jews held to different one. Does anyone know any more about this, or what book might have more information on it? I have heard it suggested a difference in date might explain all the time problems regarding the crucifixion.

Dear Annem,
May I reccommend: Yigael Yadin: ‘The Temple Scroll’.
Unfortuneately out of print, but you might find a copy in Amazon.
Failing that, I have scanned and OCRed the relevant section, and can send you a pdf to study. (I’ll need you eMail address).
There were also variations in interpretation. Remember Yadin was a dyed in the wool Jew, who had difficulty in understanding procedures other than Normative Jewish, to the point that, having seen a calendar, which goes to great lengths to ensure that all festivals fall on the same weekday every year, then goes on to postulate intercalation by a month!
Thus, when he says that date change is at sunset, have some doubt. There is some doubt as to whether the year starts with Nisan or Ellul. If Nisan, then the day would start at sunrise, with the year starting at metaphorical sunrise, and, if Ellul, then likewise, at sunset.
All accounts make it clear that Mary considered the Sabbath to extend until sunrise, following Gallilean practice, for dawn sees her making for the tomb with her spices, to await sunrise. Had she been following Judean practice, she could have gone twelve hours earlier to tend the body, a task, the sooner done, the better.

 

[apophasis]

I completely accept that Jen Schroder is being boastful about her direct encounter with God. And, just for the record, I didn’t believe it.

But you thoroughly believe her interpretation.

Even without Jen Schroder, surely those ten (10) biblical verses account for something.

Her interpretation of those verses counts for nothing if her premise is wrong. And it is: Christ’s work of redemption did not begin prior the cross; and the three days and three nights did not begin prior to He being laid in the tomb.

Sorry, but now you’re being foolish. You are not only going against scripture but you’re going against 2,000 years of tradition.

But I’m not going against Scripture itself. Fool that I am.

I am confident in the scriptural, historical and scientific evidence that the crucifixion took place on Friday 3rd April 33AD. Why don’t you check the following link and give me your thoughts…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1706005#post1706005

The basis for your argument is that “the day of preparation” was for the seventh-day sabbath:

By law and custom, the Jewish people of Jesus’ day took the Sabbath as a day of complete rest. Because no work could be done on the Sabbath, which we call Saturday, Friday came to be known as Preparation Day. It was a day when food and other things needed for Saturday were prepared in advance. This is our first clue to the date of the crucifixion, because all four Gospels state that Jesus was crucified on Preparation Day, a Friday (Mt 27:62, Mk 15:42, Lk 23:54 and Jn 19:42).

Though you correctly proved by Scripture that Jesus was crucified on “the day of preparation,” you, however, failed to follow the Scripture which also defined what that “day of preparation” was:John 19:14-16 "Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he *said to the Jews, “Behold, your King!” So they cried out, “Away with {Him,} away with {Him,} crucify Him!” Pilate *said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.” So he then handed Him over to them to be crucified.“The day of preparation” for the Passover was the day the selected lambs were slain for the Passover meal to be eaten later that day. Jesus (God’s unblemished Lamb) was appropriately crucified and died on that very "day of preparation for the Passover."John 19:31 "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and {that} they might be taken away.Jesus was on the cross approximately from 12 p.m. to 3 p.m. Thursday. The “high” Sabbath that followed was not the seventh-day sabbath (Saturday) as traditionally taught, but the first day of the “Feast of Unleavened Bread.” The seventh-day sabbath is never referred to as a “high” day.

That year you had the Passover followed by two consecutive Sabbaths: (1) the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Friday) and (2) the seventh-day sabbath (Saturday). Because of those two Sabbaths, the women could not go to the tomb of Christ until the early morning of the third day. Jesus was in the tomb three nights.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… That year you had the Passover followed by two consecutive Sabbaths…

Well, that’s something new to me that I’ve never thought about.

A quick google and I came across a couple of Web sites that say consective Sabbaths needs to be postponed because Sabbath receives its importance when it is combined with the working days:
bibarch.com/concepts/Calendrics/Rules.htm
yeshiva.org.il/midrash/doc/doc55/keys.doc

This is too hard for me now…

I’ll take your response and do some more research. Bye for now.

 

[Jessica_Girardi]

Re: Praying is good but learning how to pray is vital.
Praying is a relationship with God. Praying to other titles and names is not in the bible. Moses was used of God and even Esther was used of God we do not pray to them and there is a reason. First because prayer is a relationship with God. Praying to another name is simply stating to have a relationship with someone other than God. But let’s not take my opinion for it let’s examine the bible together…
Genesis 25:21
Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren. The LORD answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant.
Genesis 25:20-22 (in Context) Genesis 25 (Whole Chapter)
Genesis 32:9
Then Jacob prayed, "O God of my father Abraham, God of my father Isaac, O LORD, who said to me, ‘Go back to your country and your relatives, and I will make you prosper,’
Genesis 32:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 32 (Whole Chapter)
Genesis 32:11
Save me, I pray, from the hand of my brother Esau, for I am afraid he will come and attack me, and also the mothers with their children.
Genesis 32:10-12 (in Context) Genesis 32 (Whole Chapter)
Exodus 8:8
Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron and said, “Pray to the LORD to take the frogs away from me and my people, and I will let your people go to offer sacrifices to the LORD.”
Exodus 8:7-9 (in Context) Exodus 8 (Whole Chapter)
Exodus 8:9
Moses said to Pharaoh, “I leave to you the honor of setting the time for me to pray for you and your officials and your people that you and your houses may be rid of the frogs, except for those that remain in the Nile.”
Exodus 8:8-10 (in Context) Exodus 8 (Whole Chapter)
The above are examples of praying to God in the Old testament. Now note how we are taught to pray in the New Testament
in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
Romans 1:9-11 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)
2 Corinthians 1:11
as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many.
2 Corinthians 1:10-12 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter)
2 Corinthians 9:14
And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you.
2 Corinthians 9:13-15 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 9 (Whole Chapter)
Ephesians 1:16
I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.
Ephesians 1:15-17 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter)
Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Ephesians 6:17-19 (in Context) Ephesians 6 (Whole Chapter)
Philippians 1:4
In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy
Philippians 1:3-5 (in Context) Philippians 1 (Whole Chapter)
Philippians 1:19
Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.
Philippians 1:18-20 (in Context) Philippians 1 (Whole Chapter)
1 Thessalonians 1:2
Thanksgiving for the Thessalonians’ Faith ] We always thank God for all of you, mentioning you in our prayers.
1 Thessalonians 1:1-3 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter)
1 Timothy 2:1
Instructions on Worship ] I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1 Timothy 2:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Timothy 1:3
Encouragement to Be Faithful ] I thank God, whom I serve, as my forefathers did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers.
2 Timothy 1:2-4 (in Context) 2 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)
Philemon 1:4
Thanksgiving and Prayer ] I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers,
Philemon 1:3-5 (in Context) Philemon 1 (Whole Chapter)

See in the above they prayed to Lord,God never to a person who worked for God. Afterall he is the supreme and there is none like him.This whole earth thing is not to make other Gods but to be a relashionship with the one true God. P.S. These are only some scriptures on prayer to view them all search biblegateway.com and enter “pray” and or “prayers”

 

[Hellisreal]

Dear Jessica,

Your post is wonderfully filled with excellent scriptures, yet can you tell me how they tie into this thread?