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apophasis
Guest
Ok, take your time. But the sites you sent me to are based on Talmudic tradition. The Talmud didn’t exist at the time of Christ.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Hi again apophasis,
If I understand your post correctly, you’re suggesting that Passover started on the Thursday night (by Judean tradition, Passover begins at twilight). If so, this is a problem for John 12:1, where it says that Jesus arrived at Bethany six (6) days proir to Passover. This would mean that Jesus arrived at Bethany on a Saturday… which of course, would be a Sabbath. I think this is a problem because Jesus, assuming being true to Judean tradition, would not travel on a Sabbath. :twocents: But I could be wrong on this…
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apophasis
Guest
Yes, Jn. 12:1 says, “Jesus, therefore, six days before the Passover, came to Bethany…” Then in v. 12 it says, *“On the next day the great multitude who had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took branches of the palm trees, and went out to meet Him.” * This of course is what we call “Palm Sunday.”
Scriptural :twocents: worth. I’ll stick with Scripture as being correct on this.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Hi again,
Back in October 2006, I had some criticism from Protestants that it should actually be Palm Monday, and the Catholics changed it to Palm Sunday.
yadayahweh.com/Yada_Yahweh_Good_News_Histemi.YHWH
yadayahweh.com/Yada_Yahweh_Called-Out_Assemblies_Pecach_Miqra.YHWH
futurehistory.yadayahweh.com/Future_History_Appendix_Chronology.Prophecy
I posted about this back in October 2006…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1556399#post1556399
I was led to believe that Catholics changed it to Palm Sunday to make it convenient for it’s church going members. Now your telling me that it really was Palm Sunday all along???
Sorry, but I’m going stick with a Friday crucifixion; It not only fulfills 2,000 years of tradition, but I’m guessing the God created universe responded with a Lunar Eclipse at the time of the crucifixion. It’s too hard to dismiss that these celestial activities was just a co-incidence.
A Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion is a modern interpretation of ancient scripture. It has it’s flaws. And it has no tradition.
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scottm
Guest
Well gosh golly, post #17 beat me to it!
In the year 32 AD of our calendar system the 10th of Nisan, of the the Jewish calendar, was a Sunday. That year corresponds to the prediction by Daniel of when the messiah would appear in Jerusalem and be cut down and then rise again. Astronomers have done the math (that is, counting rotations of the planet). My friend the “rocket scientist” did the math also, and got the same result. Yes, his real job was rocket science. He knew the math for these calculations. It was his job.
Jesus entered Jerusalem on a donkey on Sunday the 10th of Nisan on the Jewish calendar, the very same day that all the Jews were picking out their lambs per the Law of Moses. Under the law of Moses the lambs had to be segregated from the flock and examined for the next four days. For the next four days Jesus spent his time at the Temple being examined by the priests and scribes. (Read the gospels – that’s where he was.)
The 14th of Nisan was a Thursday that year. That’s the day that the lambs were killed. They were always killed in the afternoon and always quickly prepared and eaten for dinner that night, just after sundown, on the start of the 15th of Nisan. (Jewish days start at sundown.) That corresponds exactly to the death and hasty burial of Jesus.
The 15th of Nisan is ALWAYS a sabbath. Always. That means that Friday was a sabbath day that year. Saturday is also always a sabbath. There were two sabbaths back-to-back that year. The Apostle John notes this is in gospel by the phrase “high sabbath.” A high sabbath is a back-to-back sabbath.
If Jesus did not die on the same day at the same time as the Passover lambs then he would not be our Passover lamb. We have a serious problem. Think on that. God knew what he was doing when he worked out the calendar that year: Palm Sunday the 10th, death on Thursday the 14th, force the women to wait until Sunday. It all works out.
In the year 32 AD of our calendar system the 10th of Nisan, of the the Jewish calendar, was a Sunday. That year corresponds to the prediction by Daniel of when the messiah would appear in Jerusalem and be cut down and then rise again. Astronomers have done the math (that is, counting rotations of the planet). My friend the “rocket scientist” did the math also, and got the same result. Yes, his real job was rocket science. He knew the math for these calculations. It was his job.
Jesus entered Jerusalem on a donkey on Sunday the 10th of Nisan on the Jewish calendar, the very same day that all the Jews were picking out their lambs per the Law of Moses. Under the law of Moses the lambs had to be segregated from the flock and examined for the next four days. For the next four days Jesus spent his time at the Temple being examined by the priests and scribes. (Read the gospels – that’s where he was.)
The 14th of Nisan was a Thursday that year. That’s the day that the lambs were killed. They were always killed in the afternoon and always quickly prepared and eaten for dinner that night, just after sundown, on the start of the 15th of Nisan. (Jewish days start at sundown.) That corresponds exactly to the death and hasty burial of Jesus.
The 15th of Nisan is ALWAYS a sabbath. Always. That means that Friday was a sabbath day that year. Saturday is also always a sabbath. There were two sabbaths back-to-back that year. The Apostle John notes this is in gospel by the phrase “high sabbath.” A high sabbath is a back-to-back sabbath.
If Jesus did not die on the same day at the same time as the Passover lambs then he would not be our Passover lamb. We have a serious problem. Think on that. God knew what he was doing when he worked out the calendar that year: Palm Sunday the 10th, death on Thursday the 14th, force the women to wait until Sunday. It all works out.
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scottm
Guest
Couldn’t he arrive late Friday? That would be six days before the late-Thurs sabbath. That makes sense in that he would then spend the sabbath Saturday resting in Bethany, before traveling into Jerusalem on “Palm Sunday.”
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Could have. Would have. Should have. But I don’t think he did.
Dear scottm,
Does your friend, you know - the rocket scientist, have a name? Is his work anywhere that can be found and scrutinized?
Craig Winn, from <yadayahweh.com>, who is vehemently anti-Catholic, has used the prophecy of Daniel too. And he says Catholics are right about Good Friday, but they are wrong about Palm Sunday. (I think Catholics admit they are wrong about Palm Sunday. See my post # 22 above.)
yadayahweh.com/Yada_Yahweh_Good_News_Histemi.YHWH
yadayahweh.com/Yada_Yahweh_Salvation_Masehyah.YHWH
I’d like to see your friend’s work.
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scottm
Guest
First, it’s not like Nobel Prize mathematics. Anyone who took graduate level math or physics could understand the calculations. The formulas are in college text books. There’s even books with the Fortran code in them for doing the calculations. They’re just a serious bummer to run through for a date that far back in time.
Second, my friend died a few years ago of accidental causes. But you might have heard of Raytheon and Hughes Aircraft in Redondo Beach, California, as in the guys who build and fly rockets and satellites. He worked for them. That’s how he knew what to do when this question came up.
Third, the results were published by a British guy who ran Scotland Yard. He pulled rank and got the Royal Observatory to run the math. The name of the book is “The Coming Prince.” I didn’t read the book but I was shown the book and saw the dates therein.
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apophasis
Guest
Well, those Protestants were wrong. It’s not a Protestant vs. Catholic issue. It’s, “What do the Scriptures teach?”
We both agree it was Palm Sunday: You according to tradition; I according to Scripture where the chronology of the events is written out for us.I was led to believe that Catholics changed it to Palm Sunday to make it convenient for it’s church going members. Now your telling me that it really was Palm Sunday all along???
But yet it’s so easy for you to dismiss the Scriptures.
A Wednesday crucifixion is erroneous, as is a Friday. A Thursday crucifixion is not at all a “modern day interpretation” but a correct conclusion based on the chronology presented to us in the ancient Text.
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patrick457
Guest
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
(Sorry to hear about the passing away of your friend…)
Boy-oh-boy; This is getting too hard. There is too much to scrutinize and decipher.
It appears that “The Coming Prince” interpretation of the Daniel Prophecy ends when Jesus makes his triumphant entry into Jerusalem (aka, Palm Sunday).
endtimepilgrim.org/70wks6.htm
But other interpratations of the Daniel Prophecy ends at the crucifixion.
johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2004/daniel.html
(BTW, the Daniel Prophecy interpretation of this link favours a Friday crucifixion.)
We need to decide on alot of things when dealing with the Daniel Propehecy;
We need to decide when does it start? (When Ezra was commissioned to restore Jerusalem, or when he left to restore it)
We need to decide when does it end? (Palm Sunday or Crucifixion)
We need to decide how long is a year? (Hebrew Calendar year, or Enoch Calendar year, or Julian year, or Gregorian year. Something else???)
The Daniel Prophecy is too hard for me to decipher. I have to put it in my too-hard-to-do basket. Sorry…
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
No, we (me and you) don’t agree at all. See my post # 22 - I raised this issue back in October 2006.
You say Catholics are right with Palm Sunday, and wrong with Good Friday.
I say Catholics are wrong with Palm Sunday and right with Good Friday.
Go figure.
Actually, it’s not so easy. Nowhere in the scripture does it say that the crucifixion took place on Thursday. It’s just your analysis of the events, which involves consecutive Sabbaths and Jesus travelling to Bethany on a Sabbath. If I can believe that, then I may as well believe the 10 scriptural verses mentioned in post # 11.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
What if the seventh-day sabbath co-incided with the first day of the “Feast of Unleavened Bread” (which is what I’m suggesting) - wouldn’t that still be considered as a “high” day?
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apophasis
Guest
I suppose. But then you still have a problem with the “three nights.” Please don’t refer me to “Jen’s” “small voice” solution. God doesn’t make theological blunders when He provides answers.
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patrick457
Guest
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apophasis
Guest
So then where do you get “2000 years of tradition” with “Palm Monday?”
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apophasis
Guest
Can you show me in the Law of Moses where one is forbidden to travel on the seventh-day sabbath?
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apophasis
Guest
But Jesus didn’t just say “three days.” He specifically said “three days and three nights” (Matt. 12:40).
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patrick457
Guest
Have you read that quote from the article? It addresses the ‘Three Days, Three Nights’ saying as a Jewish idiom. Here is part of the quote again:
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apophasis
Guest
Yes, I read it. But Jesus does not seem to be using it as an idiom in Matt. 12:40. He compares his time in the tomb with Johah’s time in the belly of the fish. He’s very specific.
Also, the article provides us with no examples of the “idiom” referring to only two nights. Can you provide me with some?
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