Good Friday, Could it have been Wedensday?

[scottm]

Boy-oh-boy; This is getting too hard. There is too much to scrutinize and decipher.

All of that is true – there are subtleties hidden beneath the math. The 32 AD versus 33 AD distinction is a result of some subtleties in the calculations. My friends struggled with that for quite a long time.

The gospels say that there was an earthquake and an ecliplse. I do believe that was year 32, in April. If you have access to big college libraries like, say, UC-Santa Barbara and UC-Irvine, you can find records of things like that. Only very big libraries keep those records anymore.

 

[Paisius]

There is a contraction there. Either the women bought the spices on the evening of Saturday, that is after the Sabbath, as Mark claims, or they somehow had spices ready on Friday afternoon, as Luke says. Writing about twenty to thirty years after the event,the gospel writers make some errors. The main point that the preparations for the burial of Jesus were disrupted by the Sabbath seems fair enough, and seems to establish the day as Friday.

Mark some people make the mistake of thinking that all of the events in the bible are completly factual (as opposed to true…there’s a difference). Did Jesus walk up on the Mount of Olives and word for word give the sermon on the mount? Probably not, but the point is not the emperical accuracy of any biblical event but rather the theological truth conveyed by them.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I’m suprised no one still looked at that link to Jimmy Akin’s site I gave above.

Here it is again. …

Thanks Patrick;
I’ve always found it easy to accept that the part of day counts for a full day, hence I’ve always found it easy to accept that Jesus was dead for three days.

But specifically, the Sign of Jonah quotes three days and three nights. I realise that we’ve come to accept that part of a day can count as a full day and a full night, but I was wondering if there is a more interesting explanation, because this one is too convenient, if you know what I mean.

Some people find this explanation so convenient, that they’re willing to deny it and accept a Thursday crucifixion.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I suppose. But then you still have a problem with the “three nights.” Please don’t refer me to “Jen’s” “small voice” solution. God doesn’t make theological blunders when He provides answers.

It’s not “Jen’s” “small voice” that convinces me. It’s all ten (10) references from Jesus in the bible that says he’ll be handed over to authorities (which occured the night before the crucifixion) and rise up on the third day.

The ten (10) biblical verses can be found in post # 11 above.

(Maybe I should have just left Jenny Schroder out of post and just quoted the ten (10) biblical verses on their own.)

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

So then where do you get “2000 years of tradition” with “Palm Monday?”

I told you already; To make it convenient for church goers.

For example, here is Australia, Good Friday is a national public holiday, and it makes it easy for me to go to Mass. Not so for the Monday that precedes it, and hence it easier for me to go to Mass on the so-called Palm Sunday.

I don’t know… but maybe that was the case in ancient times too.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Can you show me in the Law of Moses where one is forbidden to travel on the seventh-day sabbath?

Admittedly, I can’t.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… He compares his time in the tomb with Johah’s time in the belly of the fish. He’s very specific…

:tsktsk:
That’s not fair. His quote was “depths of the earth”.

If you’re allowed to compare “depths of the earth” to being laid to rest in an above ground tomb, then we’re allowed to compare “depths of the earth” as being absorbed into our sin (for the earth is a sinful place when we betray and deny Him).

 

[apophasis]

:tsktsk:
That’s not fair. His quote was “depths of the earth”.

If you’re allowed to compare “depths of the earth” to being laid to rest in an above ground tomb, then we’re allowed to compare “depths of the earth” as being absorbed into our sin (for the earth is a sinful place when we betray and deny Him).

Oh, come on Charlie. Let’s get real about this. Jesus told them that this would be a sign for them. The “sign of Jonah” was that He would be dead for three days and three nights and then be resurrected to new life. It was His last miracle (sign) that surpassed ALL the rest; it completed and crowned them.

All saw His crucifixion and His subsequent death. The sign was PHYSICAL, for the eyes to see - not spiritual. No one saw Him being “absorbed into our sin.” Jen and you are rationalizing and you’re following her false teaching just to conform Scripture to your own tradition.

The “sign of Jonah” was His PHYSICAL death and entombment for three days and three nights and then His physical resurrection (“just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster”).

There’s nothing difficult to understand about this glorious sign.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Oh, come on Charlie. Let’s get real about this. Jesus told them that this would be a sign for them. The “sign of Jonah” was that He would be dead for three days and three nights and then be resurrected to new life. It was His last miracle (sign) that surpassed ALL the rest; it completed and crowned them.

You never have mentioned anything about all ten bible verses where Jesus says he’ll be handed over to the authorities and raise on the third day. The only time when Jesus mentions he’ll raise on the third day without mentioning being handed over to authorities is the “sign of Jonah”.

But maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s just a co-incidence.

All saw His crucifixion and His subsequent death…

I know. But I think Him being betrayed and denied which led him to be arrested wasn’t overlooked either. :twocents:

In the context of the those ten biblical verses, I think the sign of Jonah involves more than just being dead. (Because Jonah himself wasn’t dead.) I think the sign of Jonah is a sign of suffering; Being arrested, harsh accusations, torture, carrying the cross, the cruicifixion, and death.

I understand you don’t accept this. I respect your decision, even though I don’t agree with it. So be it.

There’s nothing difficult to understand about this glorious sign.

That’s right. But only if you believe in a literal interpretation of three days and three nights (as we both do), and only if you believe in a Thursday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection (which I don’t).

Sorry. I guess we’ve got nothing more or new to add. Nice chatting with you; I don’t want to repeat myself anymore, so if I have something new to say then I’ll respond.

 

[apophasis]

You never have mentioned anything about all ten bible verses where Jesus says he’ll be handed over to the authorities and raise on the third day. The only time when Jesus mentions he’ll raise on the third day without mentioning being handed over to authorities is the “sign of Jonah”.

Being handed over to the authorities was the means by which the sign would eventually occur. They had planned to kill Him for months.

Jesus said the sign would be “as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster…” He didn’t say as Jonah was tossed overboard by the men so shall the Son of Man be handed over to the authorities and suffer. That was not the “sign.” Again, you’re adding your own ideas just to satisfy your own position.

I know. But I think Him being betrayed and denied which led him to be arrested wasn’t overlooked either. :twocents:

The “sign” doesn’t need your two cents added. What Christ said it was is sufficient. And you must build your doctrine on what He revealed, not what you think.

In the context of the those ten biblical verses, I think the sign of Jonah involves more than just being dead. (Because Jonah himself wasn’t dead.)

How do you know Jonah wasn’t dead? How do know that God didn’t resuscitate him? The sign of Jonah is perfect. As Jonah was entombed for three days and three nights (probably dead), so was the Son of Man. As Jonah was then released from his tomb so it was with the Son of Man. As Jonah then preached repentance to the Gentiles in order to be spared divine judgment, so the gospel of Christ through personal repentance and faith in Him went out even to the Gentiles for personal salvation.

I think the sign of Jonah is a sign of suffering; Being arrested, harsh accusations, torture, carrying the cross, the cruicifixion, and death.

Jesus said nothing about “suffering” as part of the sign of Jonah. Why do you insist on adding your own ideas to the sign? Do you not believe the words of Christ? No reason but to conform it to your own doctrinal position. That’s a dangerous thing to do with God’s Word, Charlie.

Yes, I suppose we’ve come to an impasse with our discussion. But only because you want to add to Scripture and I won’t go there. I won’t go down that path.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

How do you know Jonah wasn’t dead? How do know that God didn’t resuscitate him? The sign of Jonah is perfect. As Jonah was entombed for three days and three nights (probably dead)…

Well, you answered your own questions. It’s probably.

Why do you insist on adding your own ideas to the sign?

Because it’s not wrong to believe that the arresting and harsh accusations was a part of His suffering. It fulfilled prophecy, so it must be important to something.

Do you not believe the words of Christ?

Absolutely.

I believe very much, that Jesus spent 3 days and 3 nights in the depths of the earth.

 

[apophasis]

Well, you answered your own questions. It’s probably.

Well, since Jesus was truly dead while in the tomb for three days and three nights I must assume Jonah was as well. Jesus compared himself to Jonah.

Because it’s not wrong to believe that the arresting and harsh accusations was a part of His suffering. It fulfilled prophecy, so it must be important to something.

But not to the sign of Jonah. Contrary to Jen’s “small voice” revelation, it was His sacrificial work and death on the cross that produced our redemption, not before. And it was His three days and three nights dead in the tomb that was the sign of Jonah. Not before.