Z
ziggernaut
Guest
- Don’t know–leaning heavily to “No”
- No
- No
- Status
Z
ziggernaut
Guest
Yes, employers/corporations are obliged to be moral. Doesn’t mean they are or can be made to be so. Same as you or me.
Who is the “victim” here? And what is he/she being blamed for?
God Bless,
Jeff
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
Oh, another version of the racist card.
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
Then how can it be morally acceptable for me – or anyone else – to aid, harbor, or assist illegals?
E
Ender
Guest
Corporations are not obliged to behave morally but they are obliged to behave legally and I expect them to be punished when they don’t. I have the same expectations towards individuals. Illegal aliens may be victimized by unscrupulous employees but they are themselves engaged in illegal activities. I make no distinctions between laws one must follow and laws one is free to violate and I certainly oppose any bill that fails to do likewise.
Ender
Z
ziggernaut
Guest
Hey Vern,
Thought you only had 3 (in)famous questions
!I’m going out on a limb here, but I’d probably say that to “aid”, as in providing emergency assistance (food, water, medical, etc.), while possibly being illegal, would be a moral requirement. If by “aid”, and “assist”, you mean something else, well, just what do you mean? Then I might be able to give you a coherent answer that wouldn’t end up having me contradict myself all over the place
God Bless,
Jeff
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
Arrragh! Ya got me!Hey Vern,
Thought you only had 3 (in)famous questions
Oh, if you find a human being in distress, it is your duty to give life-saving aid. No one would argue that – if he were an escaped serial killer, for cat’s sake, and you found him dying of thirst in the desert, you’d be obliged to give him water.I’m going out on a limb here, but I’d probably say that to “aid”, as in providing emergency assistance (food, water, medical, etc.), while possibly being illegal, would be a moral requirement. If by “aid”, and “assist”, you mean something else, well, just what do you mean? Then I might be able to give you a coherent answer that wouldn’t end up having me contradict myself all over the place
God Bless,
Jeff
But you wouldn’t be obliged to hide him from authorities, or assist him in eluding them. Just the opposite.
Z
ziggernaut
Guest
Couldn’t agree with you more!Arrragh! Ya got me!
Oh, if you find a human being in distress, it is your duty to give life-saving aid. No one would argue that – if he were an escaped serial killer, for cat’s sake, and you found him dying of thirst in the desert, you’d be obliged to give him water.
But you wouldn’t be obliged to hide him from authorities, or assist him in eluding them. Just the opposite.
God Bless,
Jeff
R
Ramalama
Guest
So you just called him a racist, you didn’t mean to be offensive. Ugh!
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
There you have the old “blame the victim” ploy – “It’s not my fault I offended you, it’s your fault you took my words as offensive.”
W
whatevergirl
Guest
what is the Vatican’s stance on this?
A
Amolibri
Guest
Catholics in Alliance Statement on the Defeat of
Immigration Reform Legislation
June 28, 2007
The inability of Congress to pass a just and humane immigration bill is a political and moral failure, and we are profoundly disappointed that leaders from both parties could not put the common good and human dignity above partisan politics.
The defeat of this legislation will only mean more immigrants dying in the desert, families being torn apart, and workers left without basic protections on the job. Our nation’s broken immigration policies continue to abandon millions of hard working immigrants who make vital contributions to our society stranded in the shadows. We call on Congress to renew efforts to pass comprehensive immigration reform and not to drop this critical issue until after the presidential elections.
*As Catholics, our faith calls us to treat all people with dignity. We continue to stand in solidarity with those strangers among us who are often demeaned by hateful speech and inhumane policies. *We remain committed to working with Catholic social justice organizations to push our elected leaders to pass comprehensive immigration reform that balances the legitimate need to protect our borders with policies that keep families together, provide undocumented immigrants with an earned path to citizenship, and address the root causes of global migration.
*Does any of this sound remotely familiar to any of you? *
Immigration Reform Legislation
June 28, 2007
The inability of Congress to pass a just and humane immigration bill is a political and moral failure, and we are profoundly disappointed that leaders from both parties could not put the common good and human dignity above partisan politics.
The defeat of this legislation will only mean more immigrants dying in the desert, families being torn apart, and workers left without basic protections on the job. Our nation’s broken immigration policies continue to abandon millions of hard working immigrants who make vital contributions to our society stranded in the shadows. We call on Congress to renew efforts to pass comprehensive immigration reform and not to drop this critical issue until after the presidential elections.
*As Catholics, our faith calls us to treat all people with dignity. We continue to stand in solidarity with those strangers among us who are often demeaned by hateful speech and inhumane policies. *We remain committed to working with Catholic social justice organizations to push our elected leaders to pass comprehensive immigration reform that balances the legitimate need to protect our borders with policies that keep families together, provide undocumented immigrants with an earned path to citizenship, and address the root causes of global migration.
*Does any of this sound remotely familiar to any of you? *
Z
ziggernaut
Guest
Interestingly enough, one poll I saw mentioned (sorry, can’t remember which–if it’s important to anyone, I’ll try to find it), indicated that only 22% of the American public supported this bill. And that was without even knowing what was in the ***** thing. Even the Senators who had to vote on it didn’t have a complete copy of the bill and all the amendments. And they want us to trust them???
Anyway, that 22% roughly equals the number of Catholics in the U.S… Does that mean that only Catholics were in favor of the bill? I seriously doubt it. Does it mean that all Catholics were in favor of the bill? I can tell you with 100% certainty that that was not the case.
If everyone who favored it, actually knew the contents of the bill, I wonder how many would have changed their minds. No way really to know that of course, but I’d guess it would be more than a few. If they knew that gang members would have been granted amnesty; if they knew that convicted child molesters would have been granted amnesty; if they knew that criminals of all kinds would have been granted amnesty; if they knew that …well, I could go on and on; would they still have supported it?
And if so, where is the fairness and dignity to and for all of the victims of the above offenders
As for hateful speech, well, just look a little earlier on this thread! You know, in all the discussions I have had, in all the t.v. and radio broadcasts I’ve heard since the inception of this bill, I have heard no hateful speech at all directed toward illegal aliens. Inhumane treatment? Better go and talk to the people who are so happy to employ (and exploit!) these folks right here in the good ol’ U.S. of A., not to mention their own elected (?) officials in their home countries!
Well, we could go back and forth ad infinitum about this particular bill, as I’ve said before, but it’s dead and irrelevant.
End of rant
God Bless,
Jeff
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
I think we may be caught in the “Big Ticket Syndrome.”
As salesmen will tell you, when some people go to buy a big ticket item – such as a house or car – they can become fixated on that house or that car, as if there were no other houses or cars in the world. When that happens – when we want that house, or that car, or that bill – we fail to look at alternatives and may make some very bad choices.
As salesmen will tell you, when some people go to buy a big ticket item – such as a house or car – they can become fixated on that house or that car, as if there were no other houses or cars in the world. When that happens – when we want that house, or that car, or that bill – we fail to look at alternatives and may make some very bad choices.
E
estesbob
Guest
Catholic Alliance is a very Liberal organization who’s last voter guide said not one word about the 5 non-negotiable issues. Instead they concentrate on the evils of war, corporations, the health care industry, etc.
If you find them a credible source thats fine but they in no way shape or form reflect the views of th Church
A
Amolibri
Guest
"Instead they concentrate on the evils of war, corporations, the health care industry, etc. " These are VERY important issues to me…and I feel good about addressing them.
I KNEW we’d get to the “L” word…and right after the “R” word!! inevitable in these discussions… 
I KNEW we’d get to the “L” word…and right after the “R” word!!
inevitable in these discussions…
E
estesbob
Guest
But they ignored the clear teachings of the Church that abortion, fetal stem research and euthanasia trumped all these issues. They have misled people that their views on social justice supercede the views of the Church."Instead they concentrate on the evils of war, corporations, the health care industry, etc. " These are VERY important issues to me…and I feel good about addressing them.
I KNEW we’d get to the “L” word…and right after the “R” word!!
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
Whereas the murder of millions of innocent children is, like, boring!
D
Dee_Dee_King
Guest
obviously, immigration reform is not a black and white issue, like violence. and so the usccb is not infallible. the liberation theology materialists in the church love to dwell on material inequality and dismiss spiritual warfare. the world will always have poor and rich as there will always be war in souls and in the world.
bush has a vision that democracy or the globalist free market transcends boarders and will bring prosperity to all. there may be some truth in this, but this deluge of immigrants is creating a permanent sub class in our culture. i read somewhere that 40% students in LA do not speak english and are dropping out of school.
what makes our country great is assimilation–common language, border and culture–and not a free market globalist utopia. rome tried that and fell.
bush has a vision that democracy or the globalist free market transcends boarders and will bring prosperity to all. there may be some truth in this, but this deluge of immigrants is creating a permanent sub class in our culture. i read somewhere that 40% students in LA do not speak english and are dropping out of school.
what makes our country great is assimilation–common language, border and culture–and not a free market globalist utopia. rome tried that and fell.
Y
yessisan
Guest
THANK YOU!
Like I said, I apologized for throwing the words I did, I didn’t blame anyone. I blamed myself and said why I said the word racist.
I support the above post 100%.
I found this on a yahoo search:
- Status