Good News on Immigration Bill!

[MarkInOregon]

yessisan-

Perhaps before we give carte blanche to virtually anyone and their entire extended families to come here for any reason whatsoever, we should look to improving conditions in their home countries so that they won’t feel so great a need to come here–illegally, that is. Isn’t this what the new world had for most of it’s existence? This is how the vast majority of our ancestors came here. What we do now is a saying hey we got in so now lets close the door and keep everyone else out. Immigration is what made this country great.

I
While there are many jobs that immigrants do that others won’t do, to imply that all immigrants are doing jobs that nobody else would do, is a specious and untrue argument. Just ask all the U.S. citizens in the mid-west who are unable to get very well paying jobs in the meat packing plants because illegal immigrants are being hired to do them. You know, don’t have to pay employment taxes, social security, provide insurance, etc., etc., etc. This is a false statement. To get a job in this country you need to fill out an I-9 and W-4. Employers are required to get these forms and to withhold taxes. Any employer not doing this is subject to heavy fines. They may provide false ID but that doesnt get the employer out of his withholding requirements.

 

[mary_bobo]

ziggernaut;2406408:

yessisan-

Perhaps before we give carte blanche to virtually anyone and their entire extended families to come here for any reason whatsoever, we should look to improving conditions in their home countries so that they won’t feel so great a need to come here–illegally, that is. Isn’t this what the new world had for most of it’s existence? This is how the vast majority of our ancestors came here. What we do now is a saying hey we got in so now lets close the door and keep everyone else out. Immigration is what made this country great.

I
While there are many jobs that immigrants do that others won’t do, to imply that all immigrants are doing jobs that nobody else would do, is a specious and untrue argument. Just ask all the U.S. citizens in the mid-west who are unable to get very well paying jobs in the meat packing plants because illegal immigrants are being hired to do them. You know, don’t have to pay employment taxes, social security, provide insurance, etc., etc., etc. This is a false statement. To get a job in this country you need to fill out an I-9 and W-4. Employers are required to get these forms and to withhold taxes. Any employer not doing this is subject to heavy fines. They may provide false ID but that doesnt get the employer out of his withholding requirements.

You do realize that many of these illegals are paid under the table, don’t you? As far as the problems go, we should crack down on the employers that are exploiting the illegals. If they were paid a reasonable wage, I bet you could find many Americans who would do the same job.

 

[estesbob]

MarkInOregon;2412054:

You do realize that many of these illegals are paid under the table, don’t you? As far as the problems go, we should crack down on the employers that are exploiting the illegals. If they were paid a reasonable wage, I bet you could find many Americans who would do the same job.

Heres the problem with that. As an Employer I am required to have the employee fill out an I-9 and get two forms of identification. Usuallly they give you a drivers license and SS card. I am NOT allowed to verfiy the legitimacy of these documents. So should I be nailed if I hire an illegal?

Ill tell you how many of my clients handle it-they just dont hire hispanics. What we need is an on line verfiable national ID card

 

[mary_bobo]

mary bobo;2412139:

Heres the problem with that. As an Employer I am required to have the employee fill out an I-9 and get two forms of identification. Usuallly they give you a drivers license and SS card. I am NOT allowed to verfiy the legitimacy of these documents. So should I be nailed if I hire an illegal?

Ill tell you how many of my clients handle it-they just dont hire hispanics. What we need is an on line verfiable national ID card

I agree. And I don’t think that employers who do all the right things should be held responsible. The government needs to close the border, figure out who is here on expired visas and deport them, and then go after the illegals in gangs. After they do those things, we can think of a better way to handle the immigration problem. First things first.

 

[Teelynn]

ziggernaut;2406408:

yessisan-

Perhaps before we give carte blanche to virtually anyone and their entire extended families to come here for any reason whatsoever, we should look to improving conditions in their home countries so that they won’t feel so great a need to come here–illegally, that is.

Isn’t this what the new world had for most of it’s existence? This is how the vast majority of our ancestors came here. What we do now is a saying hey we got in so now lets close the door and keep everyone else out. Immigration is what made this country great.

 Yes, it was what made this country great........we are all immigrants, but it was not the same situation when our great great grandparents came to this country. People coming to this country learned to become "American" fairly quickly. They had to in order to survive, and in order to find work. They were quite anxious to learn the language. There was no German or Italian or Gaelic or Polish or any other language that was "2nd language". That made communication just a tad easier. And if they came here legally they were required to know the basic minimum of our language upon arrival anyway. Now we are more crippled in that aspect. With Spanish as our 2nd language, there is no rush for them to learn. Industry has bent over backwards to accommodate their language. I have had, in my business, many Hispanic people become quite irritated with me because I didn't speak Spanish! I have had a few of them (although I don't know the language that well, I get the gist) sound like they are cussing me a blue streak for not knowing Spanish. I don't think it is unchristian to ask why it is required of me to speak THEIR language when THEY are the ones who came to THIS country. If I went to their country would they accommodate me? :nope: I haven't seen a burning desire to assimilate to our ways with a good many of them they way our forefathers did. (this does not mean to imply that all have this sense of entitlement, I know many who want to learn quickly but just as many don't) We have in our area set up many classes for them to learn English. We have bent over backwards to get propler instructors, set up times convenient to work schedules etc. They don't show up! I am sorry if this sounds unchristian, but I have to call a spade a spade.

If our ancestors were indeed not documented they strived for documentation at their earliest possible chance. I don’t see any of that going on. I can’t tell you how many people we deal with (not employees) who do not have social security numbers at all and worse yet, they use someone else’s. What kind of chaos would you imagine THAT might be causing. I don’t think THAT went on with former immigrants.
And I don’t think, correct me if I am wrong, that they came over here by the hundreds and sometimes thousands per day. Illegally I might add. 1st of all, most migrated from Europe where you had to come by boat. (couldn’t just come strolling across the boarder) They are coming over here at such a fast rate that it will soon be hard if not impossible to assimilate all of them. How can that be a good thing for our country? It will do just the opposite of enhancing our economy the way that immigration was intended.
Now of course we have radical Islamists that would love to wipe us off the face of the earth, and with minimal control over the amount undocumented people coming over daily, how safe do you think we are at this point? Personally, I think that is pretty much a mute point as our borders have been “open season” for so long now…too little, too late. I think any radicals that would conspire to destroy us have already figured out it “ain’t hard to come on over.”*** Didn’t have that with former*** immigrants either.
Immigration is good and needed in this country, I don’t think any intelligent person would deny that, but we are almost at the point of saturation. There is supposed to be a formulated “quota” set in place that would accept immigrants at regular intervals in this country. That quota has been blown out of the water. Never before in the history of this country have so many illegals been here in such a short period of time. And they just keep coming daily.
Bottom line is, comparing the immigration situation of our forefathers of yesterday, and the situation today is like comparing apples to oranges. It’s a whole different ballgame.
We need somehow, to help them correct the problems with their own country, their own government, so that they can live in their own land if they so desire!

 

[Stolen_Rutters]

While there are many jobs that immigrants do that others won’t do, to imply that all immigrants are doing jobs that nobody else would do, is a specious and untrue argument. Just ask all the U.S. citizens in the mid-west who are unable to get very well paying jobs in the meat packing plants because illegal immigrants are being hired to do them. You know, don’t have to pay employment taxes, social security, provide insurance, etc., etc., etc.

That a lie. Every company must pay employment taxes, social security, etc., etc., etc. These companies are breaking the law. I’m amazed nobody has done anything about it.

 

[Stolen_Rutters]

mary bobo;2412139:

Heres the problem with that. As an Employer I am required to have the employee fill out an I-9 and get two forms of identification. Usuallly they give you a drivers license and SS card. I am NOT allowed to verfiy the legitimacy of these documents. So should I be nailed if I hire an illegal?

Ill tell you how many of my clients handle it-they just dont hire hispanics. What we need is an on line verfiable national ID card

It sounds like the companies are the ones doing illegal things whichever way they move. Don’t hire hispanics/brown skins, break the law. Hire them and find out they hired illegals with forged papers, they break the law. No wonder the system is broke. I guess find out which law is unenforced and go that route.

Oh, the drivers license and SS card can be verifiable if you were allowed to. That already IS a national ID card, if the databases were collated and kept up to date. We don’t need another card above the state level ID cards. We just need more cooperation at a national level.

I worked for a defense contractor that hired a bunch of illegals the way you mentioned. O month and a half later the SS numbers came back false when the company tried to make SS remittances. That’s a nice way to verify your employees without actually verifying them. They were the best “new hire” machinists we had seen, too, so it was a shame that they didn’t have real papers. They had a decent command of english, too.

 

[anniemart]

yessisan-

Do I really need to waste my time to do the research that will enumerate how many Americans have been been kicked out of various countries or beaten, harassed, spit upon, and killed, yes, killed just for being American? But that’s fodder for a different thread that I don’t want to get into.

Perhaps before we give carte blanche to virtually anyone and their entire extended families to come here for any reason whatsoever, we should look to improving conditions in their home countries so that they won’t feel so great a need to come here–illegally, that is.

I, too, know people who would have benefitted from passage of the bill. I also know people who would have suffered greatly because of it. And I really couldn’t care less what color their skin is, either. I, too, have been an immigrant and know what that is like. And, by the way, I did it legally.

While there are many jobs that immigrants do that others won’t do, to imply that all immigrants are doing jobs that nobody else would do, is a specious and untrue argument. Just ask all the U.S. citizens in the mid-west who are unable to get very well paying jobs in the meat packing plants because illegal immigrants are being hired to do them. You know, don’t have to pay employment taxes, social security, provide insurance, etc., etc., etc.

I’m sure we could go on and on. But the bill is dead. Perhaps in the future…

Oh, and by the way, just because I’m Catholic does not make me want to ask “How high?” if the USCCB says, “Jump!”

As for Bush, well…he’s just a cement-head. And yes, I did vote for him

God Bless,
Jeff

Well thank you for solving the problem…you said it yourself “illegal immigrants are being hired to do them” Guess what? you played the race card first, but not the skin color card, the materialistic race card. Why don’t you consider being other than “selective” when it comes to who’s “being hired?” Why not look at the real criminal…the one who does the hiring? Oh, but that would mean admitting that you like paying less for stuff than we all should. How about recognizing that your brothers and sisters don’t include all the ones Jesus did? Wake up and smell the really good coffee that someone picked beans for at muy poco dinero so you could get a really good deal for it? Humility, humm, how do you are your supporters define it? And yes, may God Bless us all…not just your selective few. or do you just want to want Him to bless us all???

 

[Melvin]

estesbob;2412161:

It sounds like the companies are the ones doing illegal things whichever way they move. Don’t hire hispanics/brown skins, break the law. Hire them and find out they hired illegals with forged papers, they break the law. No wonder the system is broke. I guess find out which law is unenforced and go that route.

Oh, the drivers license and SS card can be verifiable if you were allowed to. That already IS a national ID card, if the databases were collated and kept up to date. We don’t need another card above the state level ID cards. We just need more cooperation at a national level.

I worked for a defense contractor that hired a bunch of illegals the way you mentioned. O month and a half later the SS numbers came back false when the company tried to make SS remittances. That’s a nice way to verify your employees without actually verifying them. They were the best “new hire” machinists we had seen, too, so it was a shame that they didn’t have real papers. They had a decent command of english, too.

Were they Russian?

 

[ziggernaut]

Well thank you for solving the problem…you said it yourself “illegal immigrants are being hired to do them” Guess what? you played the race card first, but not the skin color card, the materialistic race card. Why don’t you consider being other than “selective” when it comes to who’s “being hired?” Why not look at the real criminal…the one who does the hiring? Oh, but that would mean admitting that you like paying less for stuff than we all should. How about recognizing that your brothers and sisters don’t include all the ones Jesus did? Wake up and smell the really good coffee that someone picked beans for at muy poco dinero so you could get a really good deal for it? Humility, humm, how do you are your supporters define it? And yes, may God Bless us all…not just your selective few. or do you just want to want Him to bless us all???

Oy yoy yoy!
Did I really solve the problem??
What is a "materialistic race", the “card” of which you accuse me of playing?
I’m not an employer, but aren’t all employers “selective” when it comes to “being hired”?
Isn’t being "other than selective" being non-selective and totally indiscriminate?
There’s plenty of “criminality” to go around here–employers who hire illegals, illegals who come here, well, illegally, senators, congressmen, Mexican authorities, etc., etc.–we are all partakers of the guilt.
***" How about recognizing that your brothers and sisters don’t include all the ones Jesus did?"–***what does that mean?
I drink about 10 cups of coffee per year, don’t buy it in a store to make at home, and pay whatever the price is at the cafe next to where I work. I like cheap. Cheap is good. Don’t have mucho dinero. But…wherever, whenever possible, if I know that buying cheap will exploit my brothers and sisters in Christ (that’s all of us, BTW) I try not do. Then I either buy expensive, if I know that it won’t be exploiting those same brothers and sisters. Or, if I can truely do without, I just don’t buy. (That’s what I try to do most of the time anyway, books tending to be an exception to that.)
newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm
And how do you define humility?
I have supporters? Am I running for some office or something?:bigyikes: :dts:
"And yes, may God Bless us all…not just your selective few. or do you just want to want Him to bless us all??"–huh:ehh: :ehh: How 'bout He bless us all?!

God Bless…us all.
Jeff