good news to all wiccans

[Mirdath]

Please answer this question: What is wicca? Is this a real religion? Is the the people who wear black all the time?

Wicca is a neopagan religion centered around a primal god and goddess, established by a man named Gerald Gardner. Its rites and beliefs are not nearly as structured and universal as those of Catholicism. It is an actual religion, although young – but then, Christianity was fifty years old once

Wicca has nothing to do with Satan – they don’t even believe he exists, as the Adversary is a Christian belief. Some people (like Caesar above) claim they worship Satan; they do not. One could claim that since they are worshipping something other than the Christian God, it must needs be demonic, but that argument doesn’t really hold water since you’re talking about two completely and irreconcilably different points of view.

People who wear black all the time aren’t necessarily Wiccans, they just have good fashion sense

Do they always have to wear black?

Not at all! Plenty of them, even most, dress more like hippies or Ren Faire nerds than goths.

 

[Caesar]

Do they always have to wear black?

I think this is just part of goth sub-culture that is influential in paganism (or vice-versa). I dont think anything in their religion commands them to- although wicca doesnt have any kind of central authority that pronounces doctrine. It is more like a collaboration of personal beliefs influenced by historical paganism and brought into our society through the forces of Evil in this world.

 

[Caesar]

Wicca has nothing to do with Satan – they don’t even believe he exists, as the Adversary is a Christian belief. Some people (like Caesar above) claim they worship Satan; they do not. One could claim that since they are worshipping something other than the Christian God, it must needs be demonic, but that argument doesn’t really hold water since you’re talking about two completely and irreconcilably different points of view.

As I did state above, the “gods” worshipped by Wiccans and other neopagan cults are but forms of Satan. It was surely Satan who created such an atmosphere in the western world where such practices and beliefs would flourish.

One does not need to openly state “I worship Satan” to be a Satanist. The atheist is a Satanist. The hedonist is a Satanist. And then there is much more that is merel used as a tool of Satan. Heresies- distortions of the True Faith- are works of Satan, even if they do not openly reflect that, for they harm the Church.

 

[Mirdath]

As I did state above, the “gods” worshipped by Wiccans and other neopagan cults are but forms of Satan. It was surely Satan who created such an atmosphere in the western world where such practices and beliefs would flourish.

You’re sure. People who worship those other gods are just as certain that they aren’t, in fact, your demons. You’re just as human as they are – there’s no way to find out for sure until after you’re dead anyway.

Nor is religious plurality necessarily the work of a devil. It’s simply a fact of different cultures existing in different places. When Shinto was on the rise in Japan, people there had never heard of Abraham, Moses, or Jesus; that’s just the fact of distance, not Satanic influence. And if you say ‘well, they have heard of them now, they should convert’ – they’d say the exact same thing back to you. Again, you won’t find out who’s right (if anyone) until you’re dead.

One does not need to openly state “I worship Satan” to be a Satanist. The atheist is a Satanist. The hedonist is a Satanist. And then there is much more that is merel used as a tool of Satan. Heresies- distortions of the True Faith- are works of Satan, even if they do not openly reflect that, for they harm the Church.

How so? If one must openly state ‘I worship the Trinity’ to be a Christian, why should the opposite not be true, that one must openly state ‘I worship Satan’ to be a Satanist? Calling people who do not believe the same way you do deluded is shaky enough ground – why make them out to be evil as well? Remember that virtue in the absence of faith is still virtue, and that ‘by their fruits you shall know them’ – pagans and non-theists are still quite capable of leading virtuous lives.

 

[Caesar]

You’re sure. People who worship those other gods are just as certain that they aren’t, in fact, your demons. You’re just as human as they are – there’s no way to find out for sure until after you’re dead anyway.

There is a way to be sure. I may be human, but the Church is Divine. The Church founded by the Second Person of the Holy Trinity cannot be in doctrinal error. Just because you dont say Satan doesnt exist does not make you correct. In fact, it is loss of belief in his existance that has empowered him.

Father Gabriele Amorth is the Church’s senior exorcist. He has personally performed over 50,000 exorcisms in his 81 years. He says, “People have lost the faith and superstition, magic, Satanism, or Ouija boards have taken its place, which then open all the doors to the presence of demons”.

These neo-pagan cults believe they have brought back the ancient pagan gods and practices. It is the devices of Satan that have twisted their hearts and minds to do such things. Why? To harm the Church. To harm and damn souls. It is quite simple.

Anything that is intended to harm souls is a snare of the Evil One. The atheist who says God does not exist is Satanic. The hedonist who says we should follow our temporal pleasures is Satanic. They might not know it is Satan they follow, but they are Satanic.

 

[netmilsmom]

So have (or have not, in the case of a job) thousands, if not millions, of Roman Catholics, I’m sure. Your point is…?

My point is that while playing video games, roleplaying and Gothic novels leads many to “believe” they are “Wiccan”,

Not a single videogame, roleplaying game or Gothic novel makes someone believe they are Christian. These are lost young people (and maybe not in body years) looking to fit in somewhere.

Guess what they become? Whatever the fantasy of the week is. That’s the “Wiccans” I knew, I loved and I talked to from all over the world on the Interney.

 

[Mirdath]

There is a way to be sure. I may be human, but the Church is Divine. The Church founded by the Second Person of the Holy Trinity cannot be in doctrinal error. Just because you dont say Satan doesnt exist does not make you correct. In fact, it is loss of belief in his existance that has empowered him.

That’s all well and good for you, but for anyone outside the Catholic Church it’s just another religion organized and run by fallible human beings. But if someone worships a benevolent deity or deities, how can you say they are worshipping Satan?

You’re quite right that simply saying something doesn’t exist does not make it so. But as far as I can see, there’s a distinct lack of empirical evidence for a the existence of a demonic Adversary. Someone telling me ‘oh, he exists’ just isn’t good enough. It doesn’t prove anything.

These neo-pagan cults believe they have brought back the ancient pagan gods and practices. It is the devices of Satan that have twisted their hearts and minds to do such things. Why? To harm the Church. To harm and damn souls. It is quite simple.

Anything that is intended to harm souls is a snare of the Evil One. The atheist who says God does not exist is Satanic. The hedonist who says we should follow our temporal pleasures is Satanic. They might not know it is Satan they follow, but they are Satanic.

I’m afraid it seems impossible to seriously discuss this; it’s something you hold on faith, and all the logic and rhetoric I can bring in won’t do a thing, no matter if you’re right or wrong to believe it.

Still, I’d like to leave you with this suggestion: it’s possible to disagree with someone’s outlook without telling them they’re deluded by the Evil One. People are more inclined to listen to those who don’t condemn them – you’ll get more bees with honey than with carrion.

 

[netmilsmom]

I think this is just part of goth sub-culture that is influential in paganism (or vice-versa). I dont think anything in their religion commands them to- although wicca doesnt have any kind of central authority that pronounces doctrine. It is more like a collaboration of personal beliefs influenced by historical paganism and brought into our society through the forces of Evil in this world.

Exactly.

There ARE no standards for Wiccan.
It’s a be what you want to be, do what you want to do situation.

 

[KarenNC]

My point is that while playing video games, roleplaying and Gothic novels leads many to “believe” they are “Wiccan”, … That’s the “Wiccans” I knew, I loved and I talked to from all over the world on the Interney.

I have never seen disputed that there are some people who call themselves Wiccan (or any other form of Neopagan) who may well fit the criteria you describe. All the ones you have met may indeed meet that criteria. That has not been my experience and I am sorry it has been yours.

In any case, please stop the denigrating, insulting accusations you have been making repeatedly on this and other threads whenever anyone says that they are Wiccan.

It is entirely possible that someone’s only experience with the Roman Catholic Church may have been with people who were homeless, mentally ill, habitual drunks, drug users, abusive to their spouse, incarcerated, or in some other way less than shining examples of a Roman Catholic. Would it be accurate, acceptable, hospitable, kind or useful to accuse everyone who said they were a Roman Catholic repeatedly and in the most insulting ways possible of being these things even though that has been the only contact the person has had with Roman Catholics?

From the general forum guidelines:
*It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs
If you aren’t going to go into the discussion with the resolution that you could just possibly have your view broadened, you may as well not go into it.
Terms of derision, derogatory remarks, baiting, and inflammatory statements are prohibited. *

There are some who are just as emotionally immature or psychologically in need of assistance in every religion. They do not define the entirety of anyone’s religion.

 

[KarenNC]

**I may be human, but the Church is Divine. **

I was unaware that the Catholic Church taught that it itself is actually Divine. How does that fit with the Trinity?

**These neo-pagan cults believe they have brought back the ancient pagan gods. **

Actually, none of the followers of the Neopagan religions I know think that the ancient Gods went anywhere from which they needed to be “brought back.” If no one worshipped your God for a period of time, do you believer that he would then cease to exist or is his existence independent of his worshippers?

 

[netmilsmom]

From the general forum guidelines:
*It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs
If you aren’t going to go into the discussion with the resolution that you could just possibly have your view broadened, you may as well not go into it.
Terms of derision, derogatory remarks, baiting, and inflammatory statements are prohibited. *

There are some who are just as emotionally immature or psychologically in need of assistance in every religion. They do not define the entirety of anyone’s religion.

Note again how I have stated, those that I know, talked to on the internet, and personally love who state they are “Wiccan”.
As I said to you, if that’s not you, it’s is my experience.

By stating what is going on in the LARGE community of “Wiccan” people in NE Ohio, I hope and pray that those who dabble in this playacting will see how they are being snowed and losing so much of their lives.

The really funny thing is those “Wiccans” that l know that have moved on from the playacting, see how silly it really was.

Until Wicca can be defined more than by a book or two, anything can be Wiccan. This is destroying young people, giving them excuses to escape from life and a fallguy for their own bad behavior.

At least one of the Wiccan posters brought up people being guided by Elders. If this is really what is going on in real Wiccan groups, great. However, I NEVER saw anyone guiding these people. And if you are one of the people who is an Elder, it is YOUR responsibility to get the followers to get out of moms basement, get a job, stay away from the telephone psychics, stop paying for zodiac charts and crystals to pay some bills.

Am I upset? You bet. The “Wiccan lifestyle” screwed up many people I know and love. I have a Goddaughter and her child that I love dearly. No Elder guides her. Do you want to start?

You could start by paying her Psychic hotline bill.

 

[Caesar]

**I may be human, but the Church is Divine. **

I was unaware that the Catholic Church taught that it itself is actually Divine. How does that fit with the Trinity?

The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ on earth. It’s visible head is the successor, in an unbroken line, of St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles. The Church cannot pronounce a heresy as doctrine.

**These neo-pagan cults believe they have brought back the ancient pagan gods. **

Actually, none of the followers of the Neopagan religions I know think that the ancient Gods went anywhere from which they needed to be “brought back.” If no one worshipped your God for a period of time, do you believer that he would then cease to exist or is his existence independent of his worshippers?

Fine, brought back their worship.

And the worship of the One True God will never end becuase the Church will not die until it comes to a glorious completion at the end of time.

 

[carmine007]

How man wiccans actually believe in that stuff?? Its like satan worshipers. They dont actually worship satan they just think of it as a joke and like to make fun of religious people (I am refering to the LaVey Church of Satan )

Wiccans will actually not increase because by that time it probably wont exist it will just have a new even stupider name and claim to have an even older lineage. Plus its not like they reproduce like muslims do.

 

[Mirdath]

How man wiccans actually believe in that stuff?? Its like satan worshipers. They dont actually worship satan they just think of it as a joke and like to make fun of religious people (I am refering to the LaVey Church of Satan )

LaVeyan Satanists are essentially atheists with an axe to grind. Wiccans actually believe what they preach – don’t get all uptight about it, your religion was a few decades old once, and spent quite a while being considered a weird cult by everyone else too.

It’s true that there’s something of a fad to claim neopagan belief and not really do anything other than try to ‘look the part’, but there are many very devout and committed neopagans too; you just don’t realize what they believe since they don’t have a reason to shove it in your face.

 

[dessert]

I do not worship man’s religion that has changed over time because God is the same yesterday today and tomooow and I hoope to be in God’s prescence in 100 years or less and Iam for now existing in His grace as we all do.
Do you suppose our great-grandchildren will still be discussing thiss on the net?
You know right from wrong so will be making the choice and you may be making it for your childrens future whether it be in your temples of earth or give them the choice to enter the new Jerusalem the heaven of God.
I pray for you that when your grandchildren come to you with the truth of the one God that can give you eternal life for your soul you accept.
I also wish you God’s healing and blessing to you and your family. dessert

 

[Mirdath]

I do not worship man’s religion that has changed over time because God is the same yesterday today and tomooow and I hoope to be in God’s prescence in 100 years or less and Iam for now existing in His grace as we all do.

God’s had quite the attitude change between the Old and New Testaments. To say God is immutable is to deny his omnipotence.

Do you suppose our great-grandchildren will still be discussing thiss on the net?

Probably

You know right from wrong so will be making the choice and you may be making it for your childrens future whether it be in your temples of earth or give them the choice to enter the new Jerusalem the heaven of God.

Thanks, but I don’t do the ‘temples of earth’ thing either – I’m agnostic, just playing devil’s advocate (quite literally in some peoples’ view, it would seem). If I have kids, they’ll be free to profess whatever faith or lack thereof they want, and I’ll be supportive of that even if I don’t agree with them.

 

[Steadfast_love]

Still, I’d like to leave you with this suggestion: it’s possible to disagree with someone’s outlook without telling them they’re deluded by the Evil One. People are more inclined to listen to those who don’t condemn them – you’ll get more bees with honey than with carrion.

True, but carrion works better for getting White Anglo Saxon Pagans.

 

[netmilsmom]

Wiccans actually believe what they preach – don’t get all uptight about it, your religion was a few decades old once, and spent quite a while being considered a weird cult by everyone else too.

It’s true that there’s something of a fad to claim neopagan belief and not really do anything other than try to ‘look the part’, but there are many very devout and committed neopagans too; you just don’t realize what they believe since they don’t have a reason to shove it in your face.

A religion doesn’t just pop up, it is lead by someone. There are people who tell you the rules and guide you.

I have seen none when it comes to the Wiccans. It can be promoted by the D&D crowd, a tv show, or a few books.
It is not organized, it’s a concept and not a very good one at that.
I know that people to call themselves Wiccan BELIEVE in the concept. But it begs the question, is your concept the same as the person next to you who is also Wiccan? No. It’s an idea that makes the person special and takes the responsibility of life away from them.

“Wiccans” need a good dose of Protestant work ethic. Once they get that, they will see how they have been snowed.

 

[Mirdath]

True, but carrion works better for getting White Anglo Saxon Pagans.

Not when a lot of them are vegetarian or vegan
netmil(name removed by moderator):

A religion doesn’t just pop up, it is lead by someone. There are people who tell you the rules and guide you.

I have seen none when it comes to the Wiccans. It can be promoted by the D&D crowd, a tv show, or a few books.
It is not organized, it’s a concept and not a very good one at that.

Then you haven’t looked very hard, or met any who aren’t high-school or college kids having fun being controversial.

I know that people to call themselves Wiccan BELIEVE in the concept. But it begs the question, is your concept the same as the person next to you who is also Wiccan? No. It’s an idea that makes the person special and takes the responsibility of life away from them.

Ever hear of the rule of three? It’s pretty consistent all through Wicca: anything you do comes back at you three-fold, whether it is good or bad – so doing good is vastly preferable. There are consistent rites and practices, although much like how each priest says the Mass slightly differently, everyone has a slightly different way of going about it.

“Wiccans” need a good dose of Protestant work ethic. Once they get that, they will see how they have been snowed.

There are other work ethics, you know – how’s the Catholic one doing?

Again, the motivated, professional Wiccans who make more money than you do and aren’t living in their mother’s basement playing videogames and D&D all day are the ones you don’t know are Wiccans. They have no need to make you know they’re pagans out of a desire to cause controversy.

 

[netmilsmom]

Then you haven’t looked very hard, or met any who aren’t high-school or college kids having fun being controversial.

The pity is how wrong you are. I’ve known people in this movement since 1995. How they turn out leaves much to be desired.

Ever hear of the rule of three? It’s pretty consistent all through Wicca: anything you do comes back at you three-fold, whether it is good or bad – so doing good is vastly preferable. There are consistent rites and practices, although much like how each priest says the Mass slightly differently, everyone has a slightly different way of going about it.

The LEADERS, the elders, where are they?
Picking up catch phrases is wonderful. Where are the rules, where are the people to guide the young in this movement?
No where.

Again, the motivated, professional Wiccans who make more money than you do and aren’t living in their mother’s basement playing videogames and D&D all day are the ones you don’t know are Wiccans. They have no need to make you know they’re pagans out of a desire to cause controversy.

They are writing books about Wicca and making big bucks, not doing a thing to actually guide those who are making it up as they go along.
IF you can find a real professional person who thinks themselves Wiccan, I can give you twenty lost people who are not being helped by any making cash off of it.
How about if instead of “not wanting to cause a controversy” they do a little for the people they are snowing with their books, websites and actions?

I had contact with people all over the world on the internet chatrooms. NO ONE is leading these people and they are searching for an easy out and a blame.

I’m gonna say the same to you. If you are one of these Elders, where are you? Why are you not leading these people out of their self destructive behavior?