Good ol' Luther

[Kostja]

“Luther called the book of St. James an “epistle of straw”. Why? Because in the book of St. James is found the ONLY place in the Bible the phrase “faith alone”. James said (James 2:24) that “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” This did not fit Luther’s opinion so he wanted to rip out the book of St. James.”

Originally Posted by Eden

Faith alone. What Bible says?

I think, this what St Paul says in Romans is the key , how Luther understand salvation. “For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”. And further: “Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due, and to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness”.
Now James teach, that “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone”. But ST Paul says Romans 3:28:” For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law".

Kostja

 

[Eden]

“Luther called the book of St. James an “epistle of straw”. Why? Because in the book of St. James is found the ONLY place in the Bible the phrase “faith alone”. James said (James 2:24) that “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” This did not fit Luther’s opinion so he wanted to rip out the book of St. James.”

Originally Posted by Eden

Faith alone. What Bible says?

I think, this what St Paul says in Romans is the key , how Luther understand salvation. “For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”. And further: “Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due, and to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness”.
Now James teach, that “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone”. But ST Paul says Romans 3:28:” For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law".

Kostja

Welcome!

There are many articles and posts that address this. Here is just one:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0303sbs.asp

OBJECTOR: The classic text in James 2:14–26 is a difficult one. Let’s come back to that one. I just want to point out that Luther was completely justified—pun intended—in translating Romans 3:28 with the words faith alone because that is another way of saying that justification is “apart from works of the law.” You see, when Paul says in Romans 4:2 that Abraham could boast if his salvation were from works, he is explaining what he said in 3:27 when he asked, “Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith.” Boasting before God is possible if any works are involved in our salvation, but no boasting is possible if it is by faith alone.

CATHOLIC: Agreed—Paul categorically excludes works from our salvation. But what kind of works is Paul talking about? If we believe the entire Bible, we need to see how Paul’s words fit together with James’s words, because James clearly says that “a man is justified by works.” If Paul and James mean the same thing by works, then they contradict one another. Since you and I both believe that the Bible cannot contradict itself, we must agree that Paul and James mean two different things by the word works.

OBJECTOR: I agree, but this is a tough problem of interpretation.

CATHOLIC: The Catholic Church believes that we should interpret Scripture by using Scripture. You will note that sometimes Paul expands his phrase from works by adding the phrase of the law, as in Romans 3:20 and 28 and Galatians 2:16. Further, sometimes Paul substitutes the phrase through the law to describe the same reality. For example, in Romans 3:20, he says, “Through the law comes knowledge of sin.” In other words, when Paul uses the word works he is talking about the Old Testament law.

A careful reading of Galatians will show that Paul is using works of the law to refer especially to the law of circumcision. He is so strong about this that he says in Galatians 5:2, “Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.” Paul’s opponents in Galatia wanted to bring the Gentile Christians back into the Old Testament law. These are the works of the law that Paul is fighting against, and they have no place in our justification. Paul is saying in essence that Gentile Christians do not have to be circumcised and live like Jewish Christians in order to be saved…

Or this one catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9304fea1.asp

 

[Shibboleth]

“Luther called the book of St. James an “epistle of straw”. Why? Because in the book of St. James is found the ONLY place in the Bible the phrase “faith alone”. James said (James 2:24) that “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” This did not fit Luther’s opinion so he wanted to rip out the book of St. James.”

Originally Posted by Eden

Faith alone. What Bible says?

I think, this what St Paul says in Romans is the key , how Luther understand salvation. “For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”. And further: “Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due, and to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness”.
Now James teach, that “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone”. But ST Paul says Romans 3:28:” For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law".

Kostja

That is a reason but it isn’t the only reason that he found James to be problematic. In the Gospel of James if one takes the word “faith” or “belief” to mean the same as the ‘faith’ or ‘belief’ that Paul speaks of we have a huge problem.

James states that daemons have faith or believe. Both Lutherans and Catholics profess that faith does not come from ourselves but is a gift of God’s Grace. Paul would never say that daemons have faith because that would imply that they have God’s Grace and I believe that we can all agree that they do not.

So when James speaks in this matter we must always be aware that his use of ‘faith’ is not the equivalent of what Lutherans consider true saving ‘faith’ because that is a gift of God’s grace – something which daemons will never have…

Luther on the other hand thought that the faiths were the same – the Epistle of James was contradictory on this matter and hence could not be inspired.

 

[Pax]

Rand Al'Thor:

all the ones I’ve seen do. They say “only” by faith.

I have just reviewed the nine Protestant bibles that I own and not one of them says “only” by faith in Romans 3:28. Please supply the versions you are reading and the exact text contained therein. I am very curious as to the translations that use these words.

 

[Pax]

Shibboleth:

That is a reason but it isn’t the only reason that he found James to be problematic. In the Gospel of James if one takes the word “faith” or “belief” to mean the same as the ‘faith’ or ‘belief’ that Paul speaks of we have a huge problem.

James states that daemons have faith or believe. Both Lutherans and Catholics profess that faith does not come from ourselves but is a gift of God’s Grace. Paul would never say that daemons have faith because that would imply that they have God’s Grace and I believe that we can all agree that they do not.

So when James speaks in this matter we must always be aware that his use of ‘faith’ is not the equivalent of what Lutherans consider true saving ‘faith’ because that is a gift of God’s grace – something which daemons will never have…

Luther on the other hand thought that the faiths were the same – the Epistle of James was contradictory on this matter and hence could not be inspired.

I strongly disagree. Your understanding of what is in the mind of James and Paul on this is beyond speculative. The “faith” that Paul and James are talking about is “saving” faith and the context of James includes the terms “justify” and “save.” Both apostles speak of Abraham’s faith in their discussions. They are both talking about the same topic, and when understood according to Catholic teaching there is no contradiction. James speaks of the demons to show that intellectual knowledge or some form of intellectual ascent as belief is not enough.

Moreover, it is clear that although the demons believe, they are still at enmity with God. Their knowledge which is equal to our belief does them no good. They do not love God, they do not worship God, and they do not submit to God’s will. That is why they shudder even though they believe that God is one. The equivalency is then drawn to “faith without works” and “faith alone” as being dead, and that faith alone cannot save you. The context of verses 14 through 26 makes all of this quite clear.

 

[Eden]

Pax:

I have just reviewed the nine Protestant bibles that I own and not one of them says “only” by faith in Romans 3:28. Please supply the versions you are reading and the exact text contained therein. I am very curious as to the translations that use these words.

I found this great site for comparing different bible versions:

bible.cc/romans/3-28.htm

 

[Shibboleth]

Pax:

I strongly disagree. Your understanding of what is in the mind of James and Paul on this is beyond speculative. The “faith” that Paul and James are talking about is “saving” faith and the context of James includes the terms “justify” and “save.” Both apostles speak of Abraham’s faith in their discussions. They are both talking about the same topic, and when understood according to Catholic teaching there is no contradiction. James speaks of the demons to show that intellectual knowledge or some form of intellectual ascent as belief is not enough.

Moreover, it is clear that although the demons believe, they are still at enmity with God. Their knowledge which is equal to our belief does them no good. They do not love God, they do not worship God, and they do not submit to God’s will. That is why they shudder even though they believe that God is one. The equivalency is then drawn to “faith without works” and “faith alone” as being dead, and that faith alone cannot save you. The context of verses 14 through 26 makes all of this quite clear.

I agree there is no contradiction but you are making a flaw.

Ask yourself 3 simple questions.

Does Faith come by way of God’s Grace.? Yes
Do daemons have God’s Grace? No
So can daemons have Faith? No

You must realize that when a Lutheran speaks of ‘Faith alone’ they do not mean faith that does not act but faith is the way by which these things come about so they point to the faith and not the other things. Or s some tend to say, Lutherans believe in faith alone but not faith that is alone.

If one looks at Hebrews they will see that the acts of Abraham spoken of in James were done by and because of Faith.

Lutherans will readily agree that ‘Faith without works is dead” because faith that comes by way of God’s grace is an active and living thing and will produce good works in us - it is inevitable. As Jesus stated it is impossible for the good tree not to bear good fruit. If one does not bear good fruit then one does not have faith or their faith is dead.

Likewise works done outside of God are just as useless as belief outside of God. Paul writes in his works about false profits that drive out daemons and call God one but they are meaningless and sinful acts because they are done outside of God or outside of his Grace. Likewise in the Old Testament it is very succinctly stated that outside of God ‘all our acts of righteousness are but filthy rags.”

So in the end outside of God’s Grace there are no good works nor is there Faith. There are works that look to be outwardly good but they are not good works and there are beliefs that look to be faith but they are not faith.

This is why when Lutherans and Catholics came together with the Joint Doctrine of Justification the response in regards to this issue was, “Houston we do not have a problem.”

 

[Eden]

Shibboleth:

You must realize that when a Lutheran speaks of ‘Faith alone’ they do not mean faith that does not act but faith is the way by which these things come about so they point to the faith and not the other things. Or s some tend to say, Lutherans believe in faith alone but not faith that is alone.

If one looks at Hebrews they will see that the acts of Abraham spoken of in James were done by and because of Faith.

Lutherans will readily agree that ‘Faith without works is dead” because faith that comes by way of God’s grace is an active and living thing and will produce good works in us - it is inevitable. As Jesus stated it is impossible for the good tree not to bear good fruit. If one does not bear good fruit then one does not have faith or their faith is dead.

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9909chap.asp

From “Faith and Works” by Jimmy Akin:

If Protestants try to put Catholics on the defensive using Ephesians 2:8-9, they themselves are put on the defensive when Catholics cite James 2:24. Protestants are known their slogan stating that we are justified by “faith alone,” but the expression “faith alone” only appears once in the Bible-in James 2:24-where it is rejected. This is a burr under the saddle of Protestants, for if they want to use terms the way the Bible does, they would have to give up their chief slogan.

When Catholics point this out, many Protestants attempt damage control by attacking the faith being discussed in James 2, saying it is an inferior or bad faith. Some do this by labeling it “dead faith.” They treat “faith without works is dead” (vv. 17, 26) as if it were a definition and say, “If faith does not produce works then it is *dead faith. *It is this *dead faith *that James says won’t save us.”

**But reading the context shows that James is not using the phrase as a definition. **He is not defining the term “dead faith.” That term does not appear in the text. He is stating a fact, not offering a definition. The interpretation flies apart at the seams when we test it by substituting “dead faith” wherever the text mentions faith.
**
**On that reading, people would be *boasting of having dead faith (vv. 14). James would be making the redundant statement that dead faith without works is dead (vv. 17, 26) and offering to prove that dead faith is barren (v. 20). He would be offering to show people hisdead faith *by his works (v. 18) and commending people (“you do well”) for having dead faith (v. 19).
**
Finally, he would be telling us that Abraham’s dead faith was active with his works (v. 22) and that Abraham believed God with dead faith and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (v. 23).

Another attempt to impugn the faith in this passage uses the statement **“Even the demons believe-and shudder” (v. 19). People ask, “What kind of faith do demons have? Only *mere intellectual assent. *They intellectually assent to the truths of theology, but this is as far as their faith goes.”
**
This understanding of the faith in James 2 is closer to the truth, but it still creates problems-in fact, many of the same problems. People would be boasting of having *mere *intellectual assent (v. 14). James would be offering to show others his *mere *intellectual assent by his works (v. 18). He would be commending people for having *mere *intellectual assent (v. 19) and saying that Abraham’s mere intellectual assent was active along with his works (v. 22)-in which case it wouldn’t be “mere” any more.

Finally, he would be saying that Abraham’s *mere *intellectual assent was reckoned to him as righteousness, contradicting verse 23, which would state that mere intellectual assent is barren.

*The “mere intellectual assent” solution fails just as the “dead faith” one did. In fact, any solution that impugns the faith James is talking about as a bad or inferior faith will fail. This can be seen by going through the passage and substituting “bad faith” and “inferior faith” wherever faith is mentioned.
**
Such solutions fail because James does not see anything wrong *with the faith he is talking about. The *faith *isn’t the problem; the fact it is *alone *is the problem."

 

[Shibboleth]

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9909chap.asp

From “Faith and Works” by Jimmy Akin:

If Protestants try to put Catholics on the defensive using Ephesians 2:8-9, they themselves are put on the defensive when Catholics cite James 2:24. Protestants are known their slogan stating that we are justified by “faith alone,” but the expression “faith alone” only appears once in the Bible-in James 2:24-where it is rejected. This is a burr under the saddle of Protestants, for if they want to use terms the way the Bible does, they would have to give up their chief slogan.

When Catholics point this out, many Protestants attempt damage control by attacking the faith being discussed in James 2, saying it is an inferior or bad faith. Some do this by labeling it “dead faith.” They treat “faith without works is dead” (vv. 17, 26) as if it were a definition and say, “If faith does not produce works then it is *dead faith. *It is this *dead faith *that James says won’t save us.”

**But reading the context shows that James is *not ***using the phrase as a definition. **He is not defining the term “dead faith.” That term does not appear in the text. He is stating a fact, not offering a definition. The interpretation flies apart at the seams when we test it by substituting “dead faith” wherever the text mentions faith.
**
**On that reading, people would be *boasting **of having dead faith (vv. 14). James would be making the redundant statement that dead faith without works is dead (vv. 17, 26) and offering to prove that dead faith is barren (v. 20). He would be offering to show people hisdead faith *by his works (v. 18) and commending people (“you do well”) for having dead faith (v. 19).

Finally, he would be telling us that Abraham’s dead faith was active with his works (v. 22) and that Abraham believed God with dead faith and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (v. 23).

Another attempt to impugn the faith in this passage uses the statement **“Even the demons believe-and shudder” (v. 19). People ask, “What kind of faith do demons have? Only *mere intellectual assent. ***They intellectually assent to the truths of theology, but this is as far as their faith goes.”

This understanding of the faith in James 2 is closer to the truth, but it still creates problems-in fact, many of the same problems. People would be boasting of having *mere *intellectual assent (v. 14). James would be offering to show others his *mere *intellectual assent by his works (v. 18). He would be commending people for having *mere *intellectual assent (v. 19) and saying that Abraham’s mere intellectual assent was active along with his works (v. 22)-in which case it wouldn’t be “mere” any more.

Finally, he would be saying that Abraham’s *mere *intellectual assent was reckoned to him as righteousness, contradicting verse 23, which would state that mere intellectual assent is barren.

*The “mere intellectual assent” solution fails just as the “dead faith” one did. In fact, any solution that impugns the faith James is talking about as a bad or inferior faith will fail. This can be seen by going through the passage and substituting “bad faith” and “inferior faith” wherever faith is mentioned.
**
Such solutions fail because James does not see anything wrong *with the faith he is talking about. The *faith *isn’t the problem; the fact it is *alone *is the problem."

I have actually read this article a few times before and I agree with most of what he states. In this article though I believe he is attacking the Fundamentalist understanding of the issue and not the Lutheran understanding.

Since 1999, the year this article was published, Jimmy Aken has published The Salvation Controversy and we see some changes in his wording. If one listens to him on the radio now he will often state when asked a question about ‘Sola Fide” – Since the Joint Doctrine of Justification we have come to a better understanding of the issue and found it not to be dividing. The Lutheran understanding of Sola Fide is not all that problematic. The only thing that one can really say is that Sola Fide is poor Biblical Language.

I agree to all of Jimmy’s views on this issue. Once one understands that Lutherans believe that although we are justified by faith alone there is really no such thing as faith that is alone as it always produces good works… if it does not produce good works then it is dead. This is not contradictory with the Gospel of James or the writing of Jimmy Aken. I would encourage all to buy and read The Salvation Controversy.

 

[Eden]

Thanks Shibboleth! That broadens my understanding.

 

[Pax]

I agree with the recommendation of James Akin’s book The Salvation Controversy. I have read this book several times and it is very good. I avoided using the term “mere” intellectual ascent for the reasons argued by Akin. The problem is that scripture uses the word “believe” in describing the view held by the demons. Clearly, they are lacking in many things. They do not love God, they do not submit to God, they are at enmity with God, and they do not do good works. Instead the demons are allied with Satan, prefer themselves over God, and engage in evil.

The apostle, James, is telling us something important about faith and works in talking about the demons. Good works do not automatically result from faith. Good works find their origin in grace just as faith has its origin in grace. That is why we are told in Philippians 2:13 that “…God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” The good works that we do are nothing less than the work of the Father’s hands within our heart, mind, body, and soul. It is for this reason that James says, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”