good points of islam

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elwill said:
well , im fluent in arabic and i agree with planten in his understanding for these verses , actually all muslims agree with him
all what you want is to check the muslims sites in thier interpreatation for these verses
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Elwill
are you also a Ahmadi Muslim?
 
**
Thanks Elwill, for what you said. I had this understanding that Kaafir was not a simple peaceful non-believer. He was a hostile war monger type person. I had not much proof. I kept on propagating that meaning. Nobody (even the Muslims) agreed to me. One Muslim site banned me for preaching that Kaafir was an enemy of all religions.

But I had sure knowledge that Shaitan was a Kaafir (Wa kanaa min al Kaafireen.)

It was also written about Shaitan in Quran that he was the open enemy of makind ( Inna hu Lakum Aduw wum mubeen.)

I understood that Abu Jehl was a kaafir and a good example of a Kaafir. It was just my understanding of the word Kaafir. But no one agreed or people had doubts about it. By then I noticed that Geert Wilders (Of Holland) had made some bad film about Islam, based on the words “Kaafir” taking the meaning to kill non-believers. It then became necessary for me to spread the news about the Kuffar more seriously.

.These so-called followers of Jesus made use of the loose translation of the word Kaafir in our books. Our scholars had translated the word “Kaafir” as disbeliever thinking that people will understand. But the opposing christians misused that slackness or decency of our transaltors.

Now I have got full proof from the Quran that Kaafir is an enemy of Islam, an external open enemy of Islam who would like to do damage to Islam. I have quite a few verses of the Quran on the subject and I am thankful to some christian friend here who unknowingly gave me another verse. Thanks to him.

I believe that every non-believer is not Kaafir. The real happiness and salvation can only be achieved by believing in the Message of the holy prophet Muhammad. But even if one does not admit that he is the messenger of Allah and remains calm and peaceful, he need not have any fear of retaliation from the Muslims.

The christians are well known to have drifted away from the real teachings of Jesus. But that is no harm to us. They may believe what they like. A Muslim will not harm any Jew or Hindu or Christian, even if that person is only one living mongst the Muslims. It is the duty of all the muslim to protect every non-believer and their temples even at the peril of their own lives. Muslims are told not to harm any one and not to allow any one to harm the Jews and the christians and their places of worship.

That is true Islam which is being forgotten in these days. Forgive any mistakes, please.**
 
planten said:
J C, thanks for the compliments. I won’t say no more about myself now. But please understand that the word kaafir means an enemy. Agabriel has also provided a proof to me in the very first verse quoted.
The matter of Wali, Mr. Leopold Weiss (the polish Jew converted Muslim) in his translation of the Quran has provided the very good meaning for the word Wali. He says " Do not make (ot take) the Jews and the Christians as your allies…"

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This is 100% pure Orwellian Newspeak. We know that when Muslims are an insignificant minority, it’s all sweet-talk with the peaches-and-cream verses that we hear; when Muslims are a significant, powerful majority, in the trash go the peaches-and-cream verses and out come the sword verses. History amply bears this out. In addition, if the Quran contains no “verses of the sword” because the word “sword” does not appear the in the Qur’an, then the same method of interpretation must be applied to the whole Qur’an; that is, it says “allies” when it means “allies” and “friends” when it means “friends”:

Allies:
[33.20] They think the allies are not gone, and if the allies should come (again) they would fain be in the deserts with the desert Arabs asking for news about you, and if they were among you they would not fight save a little.
[33.22] And when the believers saw the allies, they said: This is what Allah and His Apostle promised us, and Allah and His Apostle spoke the truth; and it only increased them in faith and submission.
[38.11] A host of deserters of the allies shall be here put to flight.
quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran

059.016
YUSUFALI: (Their allies deceived them), like the Evil One, when he says to man, “Deny Allah”: but when (man) denies Allah, (the Evil One) says, “I am free of thee: I do fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!”
PICKTHAL: (And the hypocrites are) on the likeness of the devil when he telleth man to disbelieve, then, when he disbelieveth saith: Lo! I am quit of thee. Lo! I fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
SHAKIR: Like the Shaitan when he says to man: Disbelieve, but when he disbelieves, he says: I am surely clear of you; surely I fear Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

072.024
YUSUFALI: At length, when they see (with their own eyes) that which they are promised,- then will they know who it is that is weakest in (his) helper and least important in point of numbers.
PICKTHAL: Till (the day) when they shall behold that which they are promised (they may doubt); but then they will know (for certain) who is weaker in allies and less in multitude.
SHAKIR: Until when they see what they are threatened with, then shall they know who is weaker in helpers and fewer in number.

Friends:
004.125
YUSUFALI: Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend.
PICKTHAL: Who is better in religion than he who surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good (to men) and followeth the tradition of Abraham, the upright? Allah (Himself) chose Abraham for friend.
SHAKIR: And who has a better religion than he who submits himself entirely to Allah? And he is the doer of good (to others) and follows the faith of Ibrahim, the upright one, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend.
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

If “friend” means “ally”, did Allah take Abraham for an “ally”? You are changing the word of Allah. That’s blasphemy.
 
planten said:
**
Thanks Elwill, for what you said. I had this understanding that Kaafir was not a simple peaceful non-believer. He was a hostile war monger type person. I had not much proof. I kept on propagating that meaning. Nobody (even the Muslims) agreed to me. One Muslim site banned me for preaching that Kaafir was an enemy of all religions.

But I had sure knowledge that Shaitan was a Kaafir (Wa kanaa min al Kaafireen.)

It was also written about Shaitan in Quran that he was the open enemy of makind ( Inna hu Lakum Aduw wum mubeen.)

I understood that Abu Jehl was a kaafir and a good example of a Kaafir. It was just my understanding of the word Kaafir. But no one agreed or people had doubts about it. By then I noticed that Geert Wilders (Of Holland) had made some bad film about Islam, based on the words “Kaafir” taking the meaning to kill non-believers. It then became necessary for me to spread the news about the Kuffar more seriously.**

Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning “rejecter” or “ingrate,” also the term “Kuffar” the plural of the word “Kafir” is used to refer to peasents (أَعْجَبَ الْكُفَّارَ نَبَاتُهُ) Surah 57 Al-Hadid (Iron) Ayah 20;[2] as they till earth and “cover up” seeds. The term “Kufor” means “to cover up” this is why earth tillers are referred to as “Kuffar.” In the Islamic doctrinal sense, the term refers to a person who does not recognize God (Allah) or the prophethood of Muhammad (i.e., any non-Muslim) or who hides, denies, or covers the “truth”. In cultural terms, it is seen as a derogatory term[1] used to describe an unbeliever, non-Muslims, apostate from Islam and even between Muslims of different sects. You have to keep in mind that the spirit of Quran uses the word equaly for Moslims, in Sura 2 Verse 256, it is asking Moslims to take upon themselves the action of “Kofr” of all unjust idols, persons or powers. It is usually translated into English as “unbeliever” “ungrateful” or “obliterator.”
source

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These so-called followers of Jesus made use of the loose translation of the word Kaafir in our books. Our scholars had translated the word “Kaafir” as disbeliever thinking that people will understand. But the opposing christians misused that slackness or decency of our transaltors.
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dolphinlove said:
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Anyone that does not believe in muhammad is an enemy of islam.
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In fact, Islamic Hell is a political prison for those disagreeing with Mohammed, a political crime.

We can spend an infinite amount of CPU time debating which meaning of “kafir” applies in the Qur’an when all we have to do is determine which Qur’an is being referenced, the Qur’an of Medina, or the Qur’an of Mecca.
 
elwill said:
no , i’m sunni
but i agree with him that all violence verses of quran are against the enemy in warfare , not against entire nonmuslims in the world
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In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli’s envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring “concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury”, the ambassador replied:
Islam was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their [Muslims’] authority were sinners, that it was their [Muslims’] right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to paradise.
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planten said:
**
Thanks Elwill, for what you said. I had this understanding that Kaafir was not a simple peaceful non-believer. He was a hostile war monger type person. I had not much proof. I kept on propagating that meaning. Nobody (even the Muslims) agreed to me. One Muslim site banned me for preaching that Kaafir was an enemy of all religions.
**
honesty , i’m not totally agree with you actually about the literial meaning of kafir

kafir means disbeliever , that’s all ( regardless of how peacefull or how violent they are )

while mohammed (pbuh) preach islam to his people , they was calling him " kafer" becuase he disblieved in thier idolatory religion

so , kafir is very simple word which mean disbliever and it can be used by any religion against any others
.These so-called followers of Jesus made use of the loose translation of the word Kaafir in our books. Our scholars had translated the word “Kaafir” as disbeliever thinking that people will understand. But the opposing christians misused that slackness or decency of our transaltors.
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👍👍👍
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dolphinlove said:
Anyone that does not believe in muhammad is an enemy of islam. Look at your history facts planten, **anyone who did not forcefully convert died by the sword. **
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show me these facts , please
seems to me that i have to show you some facts about islamic history and some facts about your church as well
but anyway i have to know if the facts you have are your own facts , or international facts 😃
 
elwill said:
show me these facts , please
seems to me that i have to show you some facts about islamic history and some facts about your church as well
but anyway i have to know if the facts you have are your own facts , or international facts 😃
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these facts have been posted on these forums 1000000000000000 of times now, im not going to repeat it. And the fact of the matter is, this is not what the thread is about now is it, if you want to start on the history start another thread!
 
elwill said:
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regardless of the meaning of kafir , none [of the kafirs] have to fear from muslims as long as they don’t impose wars upon them
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Response:
Like other religions, Islam sees the universe in terms of good and evil; but unlike other religions, in Islam good and evil have expressly political significance. Islamic theology divides the world into two spheres locked in perpetual conflict: the House of Islam and the House of War. The House of Islam (dar al-Islam) embraces those lands where Islamic law (Sharia) is the law of the land, while the House of War (dar al-harb) comprises the rest of the world. The House of Islam is enjoined by Allah to make war upon the House of War until the latter is permanently assimilated into the former. The term jihad, which literally means struggle, denotes the military effort to bring new lands into the House of Islam. While the state of war between the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds is sometimes hot and sometimes cold, it is permanent until Sharia law reigns over the entire planet.
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It is crucial to understand that Islam’s division of the world into the House of Islam and the House of War is not merely a question of practice but of principle. In the Islamic worldview, Sharia law (which comprises the commandments of the Koran and the precedents and teachings of Muhammad) is the only legitimate means of organizing society; any other social or political system violates the edicts of Allah himself. [unquote]
– Gregory Davis, “Religion of Peace? Islam’s War Against the World – Chapter 1: Obscuring the Issue”
orthodoxinfo.com/general/religionofpeace_ch1.aspx
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Conclusion:

Since any other social or political system violates the edicts of Allah himself, their mere existence is an imposition of war upon Muslims and Islam. Hence, wherever you have Islam, you will have war.
 
elwill said:
show me these facts , please
seems to me that i have to show you some facts about islamic history and some facts about your church as well
but anyway i have to know if the facts you have are your own facts , or international facts 😃
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What are “international” facts? 🤷
 
**sedonaman, the international facts are the facts of history and the original books of the faith that is Quran or bible etc. What D i L had written was a Universal Lie. There is no such thing that all people are to be converted to Islam. Otherwise they will face death. Nowhere in the Quran, you can show such things. The word sword is not to be found in Quran. But it is mentioned in the bibleNT that every one should buy the swords even by selling clothes. Will you deny that?.

Islam means peace for the peaceful people. There is no compulsion in religion. (Verse 2:256) That means no compulsion in any religion. Nobody is to be compelled to convert or revert. You do not have such good things in your bibleNT?. So it is better that you learn these good things from the Quran.

According to Quran, It is illegal and a great sin to kill even one innocent peaceful person. Why are you people trying to deny such good principles of our religion?? You have no legs to stand on and no ground under your feet with your such falsified beliefs. It means you have nothing good in your own religion and you are out to malign others faiths.**
 
sedonaman said:
Response:

Conclusion:

Since any other social or political system violates the edicts of Allah himself, their mere existence is an imposition of war upon Muslims and Islam. Hence, wherever you have Islam, you will have war.
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it’s your own conclusion afterall .
but seems to me that it dosn’t matter with you what is the conclusion of muslims themselfs
 
sedonaman said:
What are “international” facts? 🤷
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international facts , is the facts which have no doubts , there are many facts are private which is exist in some closed minds and have no value for me nor for any knowledgable men

as for me i never heared in the history about muslims threaten others to death if they didn’t convert to islam , otherwise i heared that within church
 
dolphinlove said:
And the fact of the matter is, this is not what the thread is about now is it, if you want to start on the history start another thread!
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the fact of the matter is that the thread supposed to talking about good points of islam .😃
 
elwill said:
the fact of the matter is that the thread supposed to talking about good points of islam .😃
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^agreed.

i like the peaceful feeling i get when im praying or reading the quran in arabic. that’s something i like about islam 🙂

wasalam
 
planten said:
**
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Islam means peace for the peaceful people.
**
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Muslim definition: “Peaceful people” – [1]Muslims, [2]dhimmis, and [3] infidels who are militarily stronger than Muslims.
**
There is no compulsion in religion.
**
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We’ve been over this many, many times before. If you are given the choice to convert or die, you can still freely choose death. Ergo, there is freedom of religion in Islam! [Another one of its good points, no doubt.]
 
elwill said:
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as for me i never heared in the history about muslims threaten others to death if they didn’t convert to islam , otherwise i heared that within church
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Did you hear this in church:
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam [Sharia] is obeyed in every country in the world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Those who study jihad will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Islam says: Kill the non-Muslims, put them to the sword and scatter their armies. . . . People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors! . . . All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will be marked for everlasting salvation. For they shall live under Light Celestial [Sharia] Law. There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and hadiths urging Muslims to value war and to fight.” – Ayatollah Khomeini
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Sounds like forced conversion to me. But then again, that’s just my conclusion.
“Man’s highest joy is victory: to conquer his enemies; to pursue them; to deprive them of their possessions; to make their beloved weep; to ride on their horses; and to embrace their wives and daughters.” – Genghis Khan
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Notice any pattern here?
 
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