good points of islam

[ZAKI]

Did you hear this in church:

Sounds like forced conversion to me. But then again, that’s just my conclusion.

Notice any pattern here?

ayotallah khomeini is a complete dick. also i wouldnt consider him as a muslim he was a shi’ite who was extreme in his beliefs of praying to imams and cursing the prophet’s companions.

also genghis khan was not a muslim…i think his nephew was though–dunno…

wasalam

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

ayotallah khomeini is a complete dick. also i wouldnt consider him as a muslim he was a shi’ite who was extreme in his beliefs of praying to imams and cursing the prophet’s companions.

Careful, remember there are Shi’a on this forum.

 

[ZAKI]

Careful, remember there are Shi’a on this forum.

who is shi’ite?
also he was an extremist shi’ite, not all shi’ites follow the imans and pray to graves and insult the greatest of the prophet’s companions (Aisha, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, etc).

wasalam

 

[katy_kt]

who is shi’ite?
also he was an extremist shi’ite, not all shi’ites follow the imans and pray to graves and insult the greatest of the prophet’s companions (Aisha, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, etc).

wasalam

Famdigy is a shi’ite and from what I have read, he doesn’t like Aisha and Abu Bakr.

 

[sedonaman]

ayotallah khomeini is a complete dick. also i wouldnt consider him as a muslim he was a shi’ite who was extreme in his beliefs of praying to imams and cursing the prophet’s companions.

How can you say this about one of Mohammed’s descendants?

Sayyid* Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini was an Iranian religious leader and politician, and leader of the 1979 Iranian Revolution which saw the overthrow of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the late Shah of Iran. Following the revolution and a national referendum, Khomeini became the country’s Supreme Leader – a position created in the constitution as the highest ranking political and religious authority of the nation, until his death.

*“Sayyid” is an honorific title that is given to males accepted as descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad through his grandsons, Hasan ibn Ali and Husayn ibn Ali, who were the sons of his daughter Fatima Zahra and son-in-law Ali ibn Abi Talib.
– wikipedia

also genghis khan was not a muslim…

I know, but it seems like Mohammed and Khan had the same philosophy, except Mohammed put a thin veneer of religion on his.

 

[elwill]

I know, but it seems like Mohammed and Khan had the same philosophy, except Mohammed put a thin veneer of religion on his.

whatever , keep us in moahmmed’s philosophy becuse discussing khan philosophy will help with nothing in your argument with muslims

if you really sure that they have the same philosophy , so it will be more valued if you quoted mohammed’s words or quran , right ? but why khan ? who is he for muslims to use his words against them !

 

[slyboots]

I realize there are different sects in Islam as there are in other faiths.
But it appears in Islam even in the present time that you all hate each other enough to kill each other over the diferences in your faith regarding Islamic teaching. Christians once thought that way but realized that was wrong thinking. we disagree now but do not wish our fellow Christians dead is they are not Catholic.

A question.
Since you all are so bitterly against each other and seem to be ready to do violence to other sects with Islam, how is that justified?
We see in the news that Sunnis and Shites will fight to the death over their religious differences. I can find no comparison in the present in Christianity. Even the Irish/ British troubles are not because the Irish Catholics love Mary and obey the Church. They fight about economic and political issues.
Please explain why in Islam it is still like this.

 

[sedonaman]

whatever , keep us in moahmmed’s philosophy becuse discussing khan philosophy will help with nothing in your argument with muslims

if you really sure that they have the same philosophy , so it will be more valued if you quoted mohammed’s words or quran , right ? but why khan ? who is he for muslims to use his words against them !

Despots are all the same when you strip away the B.S.

 

[planten]

I realize there are different sects in Islam as there are in other faiths.
But it appears in Islam even in the present time that you all hate each other enough to kill each other over the diferences in your faith regarding Islamic teaching. Christians once thought that way but realized that was wrong thinking. we disagree now but do not wish our fellow Christians dead is they are not Catholic.

**slyboots, that is true. The Muslism are walking in the footsteps of the Jews and christians. Whatever the Jews and the christians used to do, the poor Muslims are doing today. There is a Hadith about that too.
May be some day they will learn a lesson and behave and co-operate with each other like the christians are doing today. It will take some time to come to that good stage of good living. **

A question.
Since you all are so bitterly against each other and seem to be ready to do violence to other sects with Islam, how is that justified?
We see in the news that Sunnis and Shites will fight to the death over their religious differences. I can find no comparison in the present in Christianity. Even the Irish/ British troubles are not because the Irish Catholics love Mary and obey the Church. They fight about economic and political issues.
Please explain why in Islam it is still like this.

**There is no need to explain anything. I had told you that the prophet Muhammad had foretold:
" A time will come when the Muslims will do exactly same bad deeds that the Jews and christians had done before. The similarity of the deeds will so exact as you have two shoes resembling each other.

If any christian had done a bad deed with his mother, the Muslism will also do it…"

The Jews and christians had split into 72 sects. The Muslism will be split into 73 sects…
**

That is one explanation. The other expalanation is provided by yourself that the christians used to have the infighting long ago…

The Muslims do not have any knowledge of the very basic words of the Quran. Their religious leaders had been sleeping for many hundred years. Reformers had been appearing at the head of every century amongst the Muslims. But the Muslim nation became degarded due to various reasons. the major reason was:

1. lack of understanding of Quran and Sunnah.
2. lack of morality.
3. lack of courage.
4. disregard of consulatative attitude in the nation. i.e. nobody listened to the others.
5. Virtually bad and ignorant religious leaders i.e. local Imams of Mosques.
6. Lack of peaceful face of Islam.
7. Indulgence into the Jihad with the sword (weapons) which was not the real Jihad.
8. Lack of spirituality. Too much politics.
9. Waiting for a bloody Mahdi who will help the Muslims gain some land…

 

[sedonaman]

**
… Too much politics.
…
**

Too much politics? How much of Islam is political and how much is religious? Can religious Islam exist without politics?

Mohammed preached his religion for 13 years and garnered only 150 followers. But when he turned to politics and war, in 10 years time he became the first ruler of Arabia by averaging an event of violence every 7 weeks for 9 years. His success did not come as a religious leader, but as a political leader. … The history of political Islam starts with Mohammed’s immigration to Medina. From that point on, Islam’s appeal to the world has always had the dualistic option of joining a glorious religion or being the subject of political pressure and violence. After the immigration to Medina, Islam became violent when persuasion failed. Jihad entered the world. [In Bukhari (the Hadith) 97% of the jihad references are about war and 3% are about the inner struggle. So the statistical answer is that jihad is 97% war and 3% inner struggle. Is jihad war? Yes – 97%. Is jihad inner struggle? Yes – 3%.] – Warner, “The Study of Political Islam”

Conclusion: if there was no politics in Islam, there would be no Islam.

 

[planten]

To summarise, I could explain the downfall of the Muslims to their neglect of their duty to Allah, that is called Taqwa. They neglected the spiritual side and indulged into worldy affairs. So they lost the good things of the world too. The mission of our prophet was not political at all. He never wanted to be the king. He lived a pious life when in Makkah when he had no power and he lived a simple pious life in Madinah too when he had all the power at his disposal. He never preached politics.

 

[planten]

**The good point of Islam: While there is no compulsion in religion, that means in any religion, Islam or Hinduism or Judaism or christianity, there is to to be no compulsion in the matters of chosing a religion. That is the teaching of the Quran and it is true.

Now people think that Islam was spread by sword. Far from that. Please first remember that sword was used to kill Islam, to annihilate Islam, to uproot it in Makkah and Madinah and else where, every where… Why was sword used by the enemies (Kuffar) to uproot Islam?? That has to be explained before accusing Islam for the use of sword.

Remember the good saying of Jesus. He said 'Those who kill by the sword will be killed by the sword." See below:

Mathew 26:52, “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword**.

 

[sedonaman]

**
…
Mathew 26:52, “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword**.

And it’s true. Mohammed lived by the sword, and he died by the sword.

 

[planten]

And it’s true. Mohammed lived by the sword, and he died by the sword.

**sedonaman, did Muhammad carry any sword in Makkah for 13 years?. Please why can you not see the true picture. His companions were brutally killed and many migrated to a christian country Ethiopia). Every Muslim war running for his life… Muhammad never had a sword. I hope that you do not believe that early christians were persecuted. You should not believe that too.

Then Muhammad was about to be killed and he had to flee for his life to Madinah. Please tell me, while in Madinah, did he ever pick up the sword and try to attack the city of Makkah? Never. It was the infidels, the enemies (Kuffar) of Makkah who came with a 1000 strong fully armed persons to attack Madinah. There was a battle at the field of Badr. In that battle, there were only 313 Muslims,menandchildren, quite unarmed, who had come out to defend themselves.

They (Muslims) were victorious. The pagans of Makkah were killed and captured and routed. You are taking the side of the Pagans instead of the believers !! You do not know what you are doing !!

I am sure that the words of Jesus were 100% true. he had said, Mathew 26:52, “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”. **

That was true. The Pagans of Makkah had come with drawn swords. It was not Muhammad who came with drawn sword. sedonaman you are going against the words of Jesus. How is that???

 

[sedonaman]

**sedonaman, did Muhammad carry any sword in Makkah for 13 years?. Please why can you not see the true picture. His companions were brutally killed and many migrated to a christian country Ethiopia). Every Muslim war running for his life… Muhammad never had a sword. I hope that you do not believe that early christians were persecuted. You should not believe that too.

Then Muhammad was about to be killed and he had to flee for his life to Madinah. Please tell me, while in Madinah, did he ever pick up the sword and try to attack the city of Makkah? Never. It was the infidels, the enemies (Kuffar) of Makkah who came with a 1000 strong fully armed persons to attack Madinah. There was a battle at the field of Badr. In that battle, there were only 313 Muslims,menandchildren, quite unarmed, who had come out to defend themselves.

They (Muslims) were victorious. The pagans of Makkah were killed and captured and routed. You are taking the side of the Pagans instead of the believers !! You do not know what you are doing !!

I am sure that the words of Jesus were 100% true. he had said, Mathew 26:52, “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”. **

That was true. The Pagans of Makkah had come with drawn swords. It was not Muhammad who came with drawn sword. sedonaman you are going against the words of Jesus. How is that???

, LMAO! I suppose you can consider it self-defense if you think the goods the caravans were carrying that Mohammed wanted to steal actually belonged to Mohammed by divine right.

I guess we can say that Mohammad fulfilled at least two prophecies of the Bible [NT]:

“False prophets will arise and deceive many.”

and …

“He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.” And Mohammed certainly did.

PS. I heard they have Mohammad’s actual sword in Mecca somewhere near the Kha’aba.

 

[sedonaman]

**
…
Then Muhammad was about to be killed and he had to flee for his life to Madinah. Please tell me, while in Madinah, did he ever pick up the sword and try to attack the city of Makkah? Never.
**

That’s right! He waited until he got outside the Madinah [sic] city limits, then picked up a sword.

**
It was the infidels, the enemies (Kuffar) of Makkah who came with a 1000 strong fully armed persons to attack Madinah.
**

I thought you told us it was the “Roman King Kaisar.”

**
There was a battle at the field of Badr. In that battle, there were only 313 Muslims,menandchildren, quite unarmed, who had come out to defend themselves. … That was true. The Pagans of Makkah had come with drawn swords. It was not Muhammad who came with drawn sword. … They (Muslims) were victorious. The pagans of Makkah were killed and captured and routed.
**

Let’s see. Only 313 Muslims, men and children, all “quite unarmed,” defeated 1,000 fully armed kuffar warriors. That’s a better story than the Star Wars episode in which the evil empire with the latest technology was defeated by a few hundred teddy bears armed with only sticks and stones. Of course, your fable has to have the Muslims as “quite unarmed” so as to maintain the moral high ground. Gimme a break.

 

[planten]

That’s right! He waited until he got outside the Madinah [sic] city limits, then picked up a sword.

I thought you told us it was the “Roman King Kaisar.”

** But you know they were not the forces of the Roman King kaisar. They were the pagans of makkah, Arabia.

You also avoided the 13 years of persecution of unarmed Muslims in Makkah. It seems you have no sensible reply and you are trying to wander in some wilderness.**

Let’s see. Only 313 Muslims, men and children, all “quite unarmed,” defeated 1,000 fully armed kuffar warriors. That’s a better story than the Star Wars episode in which the evil empire with the latest technology was defeated by a few hundred teddy bears armed with only sticks and stones. Of course, your fable has to have the Muslims as “quite unarmed” so as to maintain the moral high ground. Gimme a break.

**You have already tried to ignore the wise words of Jesus about the use of swords. You have no love or value for Jesus. Now I give you another reference of the prophet Isaiah, chapter 21, verses 13 to 17: It describes the events of Arabia 700 years before they happened. See below:

A Prophecy Against Arabia (The pagans of Arabia.)
13 An oracle concerning Arabia:
You caravans of Dedanites,
who camp in the thickets of Arabia,
14 bring water for the thirsty;
you who live in Tema,
bring food for the fugitives.

15 They flee from the sword,
from the drawn sword,
from the bent bow
and from the heat of battle.

16 This is what the Lord says to me: “Within one year, as a servant bound by contract would count it, all the pomp of Kedar will come to an end. 17 The survivors of the bowmen, the warriors of Kedar, will be few.” The LORD, the God of Israel, has spoken.**

That is exactly what happened within one year of the fleeing of the prophet from the bent bow, They flee from the sword,
from the drawn sword,
from the bent bow …

 ...............  all the pomp of Kedar will come to an end. 17 The survivors of the bowmen, the warriors of Kedar, will be few."...

… The LORD, the God of Israel, has spoken.

All the pomp of the Kedar (Camel riders, warriors) had come to nought… It is all a prophecy about the migration of the prophet under duress and within one year after that, the resulting battle at the field of Badr in which nearly all the big warriors of the Pagan Arabs were killed.

That proved the words of Jesus too that whoever draws the sword will be killed by the sword. We believe that to be true.

 

[sedonaman]

**
…

All the pomp of the Kedar (Camel riders, warriors) had come to nought… It is all a prophecy about the migration of the prophet under duress and within one year after that, the resulting battle at the field of Badr in which nearly all the big warriors of the Pagan Arabs were killed.

That proved the words of Jesus too that whoever draws the sword will be killed by the sword. We believe that to be true.**

Applying your own test, the name “Badr” does not appear in the Bible, nor does “Mohammed”. Therefore, this has no more to do with the Battle of Badr and/or Mohammed than it does with the Battle of The Little Big Horn and/or Gen. Custer and Sitting Bull.

“Islam says: ‘Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors!’” – That great Islamic holy man, Ayatollah Khomeini

Mohammed, the Muslims’ perfect example, lived by the sword, hence Khomeini’s words; and Mohammed therefore died by the sword, fulfilling Jesus’ prophecy.

P.S. If you don’t already have your “key to paradise”, you better get one before it’s too late.

 

[planten]

**sedonaman, that prophecy of the prophet Isaiah is about the Arabs. It is telling something about some persons running away from the drawn swords. It is telling about the destruction of the power of the Kedars within one year. You can understand it the way you like. We understand it as the true words of the prophet Isaiah ( peace of Allah be upon him).

You are asking for the words Badr and Muhammad in that prophecy. Do you have the name Jesus in any prophecy in the bibleOT?? I hope not. You seem to be a new uninformed christian or perhaps not a christian at all…

You have already ignored the words of Jesus about the use of swords and you have been twisting, mis-applying the good words of Jesus. So we have no blame on you.**

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

They (Muslims) were victorious. The pagans of Makkah were killed and captured and routed. You are taking the side of the Pagans instead of the believers !! You do not know what you are doing !!

I am sure that the words of Jesus were 100% true. he had said, Mathew 26:52, “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”.

That was true. The Pagans of Makkah had come with drawn swords. It was not Muhammad who came with drawn sword. sedonaman you are going against the words of Jesus. How is that???

:doh2:

Sir…Jesus says that because Peter cut off the ear of a Temple servant and was teaching the disciples peace, not war…