Good Protestant vs bad Catholic?

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Is it better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic? I ask because I have several family members who consider themselves Catholic because they were raised Catholic, but whose beliefs and/or conduct are not Catholic - for example, they have liberal Protestant views on the hot-button topics (gay marriage, ordination of women, open communion), and/or they are divorced and in non-marital sexual relationships.

I was taught that under these circumstances, you should not receive the Eucharist because receiving means that you are “in communion” with the Churches teachings, and that you are “in a state of grace” (not conscious of having unconfessed mortal sin). Since these family members see nothing wrong with cohabitation, missing Mass, and openly dissenting with Church teachings, they feel free to go to Mass and receive communion - after all, it’s Jesus and they profess to love Jesus.

I want them to love Jesus, but I don’t want them to commit sacrilege. I myself am a Catholic “revert”, and I knew when I decided to come back to the Church that I had to change my way of life. But for some reason, these family members don’t see it that way, and I am at the point where I want to tell them that it is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic, and to find a Protestant church that fits their beliefs because that is preferable to living a lie. I believe that they are not only offending God, but also harming themselves by this behavior.

Thoughts, anyone?
 
That is a sort of a moot point, because they don’t have the choice of being good Protestants. They are Catholic. Members of that denomination might have been raised in good faith and they might be good Protestants, but someone baptized and raised Catholic has the duty to be a good Catholic.

We are kind of like the Hotel California in that way: You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. Your relatives would still have all the obligations of a Catholic if they were to start attending a different church that held different beliefs. They would just be that much less likely to wake up and start doing what they ought to do.

As for loving Jesus, you might remind them that He said, “Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him.” John 14:21
 
Is it better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic? I ask because I have several family members who consider themselves Catholic because they were raised Catholic, but whose beliefs and/or conduct are not Catholic - for example, they have liberal Protestant views on the hot-button topics (gay marriage, ordination of women, open communion), and/or they are divorced and in non-marital sexual relationships.

I was taught that under these circumstances, you should not receive the Eucharist because receiving means that you are “in communion” with the Churches teachings, and that you are “in a state of grace” (not conscious of having unconfessed mortal sin). Since these family members see nothing wrong with cohabitation, missing Mass, and openly dissenting with Church teachings, they feel free to go to Mass and receive communion - after all, it’s Jesus and they profess to love Jesus.

I want them to love Jesus, but I don’t want them to commit sacrilege. I myself am a Catholic “revert”, and I knew when I decided to come back to the Church that I had to change my way of life. But for some reason, these family members don’t see it that way, and I am at the point where I want to tell them that it is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic, and to find a Protestant church that fits their beliefs because that is preferable to living a lie. I believe that they are not only offending God, but also harming themselves by this behavior.

Thoughts, anyone?
Who taught you that you shouldn’t receive communion unless you agree with all of Catholic teaching in it’s entirety? I ask because 1) these family members of yours have a very different impression, and I’m wondering why there is such a radical split and 2) I’m not sure it’s a sound teaching.

Flagrantly disobeying major teachings (especially regarding mortal sins) is different than disagreeing with major teaching, so it would be important not to paint both categories with the same brush. For example, there are one or two traditional, popular teachings that I have reservations about, but I obey the rules like everyone else. As it was explained to me by two or three priests on separate occasions, this is acceptable though not ideal.
 
Is it better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic? I ask because I have several family members who consider themselves Catholic because they were raised Catholic, but whose beliefs and/or conduct are not Catholic - for example, they have liberal Protestant views on the hot-button topics (gay marriage, ordination of women, open communion), and/or they are divorced and in non-marital sexual relationships.

I was taught that under these circumstances, you should not receive the Eucharist because receiving means that you are “in communion” with the Churches teachings, and that you are “in a state of grace” (not conscious of having unconfessed mortal sin). Since these family members see nothing wrong with cohabitation, missing Mass, and openly dissenting with Church teachings, they feel free to go to Mass and receive communion - after all, it’s Jesus and they profess to love Jesus.

I want them to love Jesus, but I don’t want them to commit sacrilege. I myself am a Catholic “revert”, and I knew when I decided to come back to the Church that I had to change my way of life. But for some reason, these family members don’t see it that way, and I am at the point where I want to tell them that it is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic, and to find a Protestant church that fits their beliefs because that is preferable to living a lie. I believe that they are not only offending God, but also harming themselves by this behavior.

Thoughts, anyone?
You can’t control what your family members are doing. The best thing is to pray for them and let it be in God’s hands. All they are doing is hurting themselves. Just continue to live your Catholic faith to your best, be kind to them and just pray for them.
 
If any of this comes up for discussion with the Catholic Church, and they asked for my :twocents:, I would explain why I believed in following the Catholic Church.

I used to consider myself “Catholic” and thought I could dissent on its teachings…with the Pope and all kinds of things. I think I lacked formation and knew little of apologetics and was easy prey for some to take me off the path.

I think it helped me to understand WHY the Church taught like it did.

For example, when I read the passage in the Bible which talked about how Peter was called by Christ, and him alone, to be the “rock” on which Christ would build his Church, it helped me. I read how he was given the “keys” (authority). Christ said he was given all authority in heaven and earth, and Christ proceeded to give Peter, and him alone, exclusive authority that he didn’t give to any of the other apostles.

Christ gave Peter power to bind on earth to the point whatever he bound on earth would be bound in heaven, whatever he loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. Christ transferred authority to Peter as earthly head of the Church, representing Christ, that is to say.

In the absence of Christ, Peter was their clear leader. He spoke for the apostles. He settled the arguments. He took over leadership of the Church so that the Church always had leadership particularly to guide us through periods where there were questions and needed answers.

When Judas committed suicide, he was replaced by Matthew. This is what we would now what we would refer to as an “office”. When Peter was killed, he was replaced by another who would have authority to lead.

Christ promised he would oversee his Church, and we have faith in that. Christ said he would establish his Church, not churches. I believe he established the Catholic Churches.

Many have split off, but I stay with the original, because I believe it has held closest to the beliefs Christ taught, with the representatives and their descendents.

Some have tried to split off, make their own policies, but I don’t believe they had the same divine authority to do this that Peter had. We now have …checked online, and one site said there were 33,000…a bit more…of different brands now of Christianity, since it had been split again and again.

Henry VIII couldn’t get an annulment, ran out and started his own church. People often wanted to have churches that would be easier, not what Christ actually taught, not based on either the Bible or magesterium. However, I don’t believe this, or the others, were divinely inspired.

The Church is actually what we would call an “institution”. In fact, it’s the longest running formal institution in the world. Its longevity in and of itself, is a testament to what we believe is divine intervention. No other formal institution has ever lasted as long as the Catholic Church.

It has withstood persecution and all manner of things, trends, heresies, etc.

Peter was asked 3 times, and him alone, to shepherd the Church. Christ told Peter that they would be scattered, but after that, to go back and strengthen the others.

It’s my understanding that authority has been transferred to Peter’s descendents and representatives. When we reject their authority, refuse to obey them, it is like refusing to obey Christ, the apostles and descendents of their representatives, it’s serious.

We can’t just pick and choose, be “cafeteria Catholics”. It’s a package deal, really.

Now, many other faiths have caved in, in modern times, not stayed with what Christ actually taught or Christ’s representatives, preferring their own. If anyone were to read the Bible, both in the Old and New Testament, it speaks specifically against gay unions. There are numerous references that are clear and unmistakable. There is no place where it is condoned. It is condemned in very strong terms.

Christ said that from the beginning, we were made male and female and talked against divorce, specifically. The two were to become one, that Moses allowed divorce due to the hardness of our hearts but said that was never the intention.

Also, there are references to fornication and fornicators, that they would not be allowed to go to heaven.

As to receiving communion unworthily, there is reference in the Bible to it, as well. It’s easiest to reference these from online or get an apologetics book.

One could do a Google search armed with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Bible quotes on one issue at a time.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=catechism%20of%20the%20catholic%20church&sprefix=catechism+of+the+catholic+chur%2Caps
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

Also, have a Catholic Bible available, hard copy or online.

I once had someone who believed in the Santa Muerte. He said he was Catholic. I looked up the appropriate sections, got a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and said if he was “Catholic”, that was what he was supposed to adhere to.

With some people, that can help.

You familiarize yourself with the Catechism and go with that. If they want to continue believing what they want, it will be a clear rejection of knowing what the position is and WHY.

Is it better to be a good Protestant or bad Catholic? Not sure. One is a rejection of Christ’s representatives, …heresy? The other is… Only God could make that determination based on all the variables.
 
I have some reservations about some of the practices of the Catholic Church but I still obey and hope and pray that someday they will be modified or changed. Does this make me anathema or excommunicated? I think not. I agree with most things but I do obey in all things. I believe that some of these practices are left over from when the Church was the ultimate authority. When Church and State separated some of the “need” to totally control members of the Church should have been modified. Now I am not going to mention them but some go against what Jesus was all about.
Do you really believe that “all things bound here” are bound in Heaven? Again I think not.
.
One day in the future there will be a new beginning, St Peter and St. Paul will come down from Heaven and establish a new Church with a new Pope. Some of the things we now follow may be changed. Chances are that I may not be around then but still these new times will arrive. We can pray for improvements in Holy Mother Church while still being true to Her. BTW none of my ideas have anything to do with the OP 's relatives beliefs. I support the Church’s current stance on all those mentioned. It’s other things that I feel will unite all of God’s and Our Lady’s children.

And one more thing. It is easy to criticize others for what we may feel is less than what may be expected of them by the Magisterium but I agree with the poster who said just pray for them and I would like to remind the OP of the passage which speaks about the log in our own eye.
 
I have some reservations about some of the practices of the Catholic Church but I still obey and hope and pray that someday they will be modified or changed. Does this make me anathema or excommunicated? I think not. I agree with most things but I do obey in all things. I believe that some of these practices are left over from when the Church was the ultimate authority. When Church and State separated some of the “need” to totally control members of the Church should have been modified. Now I am not going to mention them but some go against what Jesus was all about.
Do you really believe that “all things bound here” are bound in Heaven? Again I think not.
.
One day in the future there will be a new beginning, St Peter and St. Paul will come down from Heaven and establish a new Church with a new Pope. Some of the things we now follow may be changed. Chances are that I may not be around then but still these new times will arrive. We can pray for improvements in Holy Mother Church while still being true to Her. BTW none of my ideas have anything to do with the OP 's relatives beliefs. I support the Church’s current stance on all those mentioned. It’s other things that I feel will unite all of God’s and Our Lady’s children.

And one more thing. It is easy to criticize others for what we may feel is less than what may be expected of them by the Magisterium but I agree with the poster who said just pray for them and I would like to remind the OP of the passage which speaks about the log in our own eye.
I think you are Protestant, not Catholic. Why not be truthful?
 
We have rules on this forum that we can question the beliefs but not a person’s sincerity in his/her faith, which you are right now.
 
“We have rules on this forum that we can question the beliefs but not a person’s sincerity in his/her faith, which you are right now.”

**Not true. You are reading too much into what I didn’t say. All I did was quote a passage of scripture. I said nothing about questioning a person’s sincerity. In fact the SCRIPTURE does not say anything about a person’s sincerity. I am not questioning their faith at all. It is you who have made that determination.

I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER HERE LONGER THAN YOU AND I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE RULES. I DID NOT VIOLATE THE RULES. II DIDN’T REALIZE YOU WERE A MODERATOR.

With Respect,

SCHULTZZKOPF**
 
I think you are Protestant, not Catholic. Why not be truthful?
Every post I have made on this forum is truthful Now it is you who are questioning my sincerity. Besides, I never said what religion I follow.

Peace,

SCHULTZZKOPF
 
…I am at the point where I want to tell them that it is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic, and to find a Protestant church that fits their beliefs because that is preferable to living a lie. I believe that they are not only offending God, but also harming themselves by this behavior.

Thoughts, anyone?
Sorry, but this is a terrible idea.

No, you should not discourage anyone from being Catholic (noting, as EasterJoy explained, they are always Catholic anyway). What you are actually talking about is encouraging your family members to commit heresy. And you may carry guilt for the sin too, because you have directly encouraged their sin.

You can encourage them to be better Catholics. You can encourage them to know their faith better. Better yet - set a good example and pray for them.

But no, do not encourage them to leave the faith.

PS I don’t mean to be harsh. No doubt you have good motives. but I just want to make you aware of what you are actually proposing.
 
There are rules and practices in the protestant religion too. .

Some people just have problems following rules when it becomes difficult or inconvienient. Switching would not fix this.
 
Is it better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic? I ask because I have several family members who consider themselves Catholic because they were raised Catholic, but whose beliefs and/or conduct are not Catholic - for example, they have liberal Protestant views on the hot-button topics (gay marriage, ordination of women, open communion), and/or they are divorced and in non-marital sexual relationships.

I was taught that under these circumstances, you should not receive the Eucharist because receiving means that you are “in communion” with the Churches teachings, and that you are “in a state of grace” (not conscious of having unconfessed mortal sin). Since these family members see nothing wrong with cohabitation, missing Mass, and openly dissenting with Church teachings, they feel free to go to Mass and receive communion - after all, it’s Jesus and they profess to love Jesus.

I want them to love Jesus, but I don’t want them to commit sacrilege. I myself am a Catholic “revert”, and I knew when I decided to come back to the Church that I had to change my way of life. But for some reason, these family members don’t see it that way, and I am at the point where I want to tell them that it is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic, and to find a Protestant church that fits their beliefs because that is preferable to living a lie. I believe that they are not only offending God, but also harming themselves by this behavior.

Thoughts, anyone?
They would still be living a lie!!! God Bless, Memaw
 
Who taught you that you shouldn’t receive communion unless you agree with all of Catholic teaching in it’s entirety? I ask because 1) these family members of yours have a very different impression, and I’m wondering why there is such a radical split and 2) I’m not sure it’s a sound teaching.
It is sound teaching that we are to give assent to all Church teaching.

If we remain in **obstinate **doubt or **active **defiance, then of course we should not receive communion because we are not in a state of grace.
Flagrantly disobeying major teachings (especially regarding mortal sins) is different than disagreeing with major teaching, so it would be important not to paint both categories with the same brush. For example, there are one or two traditional, popular teachings that I have reservations about, but I obey the rules like everyone else. As it was explained to me by two or three priests on separate occasions, this is acceptable though not ideal.
Having doubts privately, while continuing to study and understand them and while publicly giving assent and obedience is not what the OP describes. I am glad that this is your approach because that is certainly in keeping with Church teaching.

Your situation is not analogous at all.
 
Well, actually, you do have *Catholic *in your Religion field on your profile. Is that not what religion you follow?
I was referring to the respective post not to my profile info.🙂
 
Is it better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic? I ask because I have several family members who consider themselves Catholic because they were raised Catholic, but whose beliefs and/or conduct are not Catholic - for example, they have liberal Protestant views on the hot-button topics (gay marriage, ordination of women, open communion), and/or they are divorced and in non-marital sexual relationships.

I was taught that under these circumstances, you should not receive the Eucharist because receiving means that you are “in communion” with the Churches teachings, and that you are “in a state of grace” (not conscious of having unconfessed mortal sin). Since these family members see nothing wrong with cohabitation, missing Mass, and openly dissenting with Church teachings, they feel free to go to Mass and receive communion - after all, it’s Jesus and they profess to love Jesus.

I want them to love Jesus, but I don’t want them to commit sacrilege. I myself am a Catholic “revert”, and I knew when I decided to come back to the Church that I had to change my way of life. But for some reason, these family members don’t see it that way, and I am at the point where I want to tell them that it is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic, and to find a Protestant church that fits their beliefs because that is preferable to living a lie. I believe that they are not only offending God, but also harming themselves by this behavior.

Thoughts, anyone?
Another thought is that their beliefs and moral practices are not approved by many Protestants as well. So telling them that they should leave and be a Protestant is a misnomer. They basically wouldn’t make good Protestants either. You are making too many assumptions that “protestants” approve of immorality, same sex marriage and the rest. If someone isn’t interested in following God, they will make a bad Catholic as well as Protestant. Besides Protestantism is very broad and your idea is off base.
 
I guess I should have been more specific - I was thinking of the liberal wing of the Episcopal church that officially endorses things like that. But another underlying thought is that Protestants in general don’t seem to have a concept of mortal sin, and that mortal sin keeps you out of heaven. They seem to have a general notion of “Jesus loves me so much that He died on the cross to save me, so I’m saved even though I’m a sinner, after all, we are all sinners.” I guess that’s the logical result of the old “faith alone without works” dilemma that started the whole Protestant ball rolling.

Now that I look at it, I think that my original inclination to encourage my family members to be Protestants has to do with invincible ignorance. I can’t imagine why any Christian would want to be anything but Catholic, so Protestants must be afflicted with invincible ignorance. It’s not that they 'see the truth, but reject it" - it’s that they just don’t see it, for whatever reason. Maybe they were taught wrong from childhood, maybe they had bad experiences with Catholics or the Church, yada yada yada. Honestly, the state of Catholic catechesis when I was growing up was abysmal. I went to Catholic schools, even graduated from a Catholic college, and was still basically ignorant. Never even heard the word “apologetics,” never read a word of any Vatican II document, nothing on Catholic spirituality, saints, etc. I would say that 98% of what I now know about our beautiful faith was learned after I returned to the Church following a 14 year absence. For that reason, I can well see how my loved ones can be invincibly ignorant of the faith, even though they were “raised Catholic.”

So, if Protestants are well-meaning but suffer from invincible ignorance, it seems to me that they would be held to a lesser standard than those who do know the truth. If someone doesn’t recognize a mortal sin to be mortal, then it’s not mortal for them, right? I realize that I’m trying to make excuses for my loved ones. But it seems to me that by claiming to be Catholic, they are unwittingly holding themselves to the higher Catholic standard, and possibly condemning themselves. But if they are honest with themselves and with God, and acknowledge that they are Protestants, they would not only be held to a lesser standard, but also avoid causing scandal within the Church. Negative influences like that can spread and incite others to dissent also.
 
I guess I should have been more specific - I was thinking of the liberal wing of the Episcopal church that officially endorses things like that. But another underlying thought is that Protestants in general don’t seem to have a concept of mortal sin, and that mortal sin keeps you out of heaven. They seem to have a general notion of “Jesus loves me so much that He died on the cross to save me, so I’m saved even though I’m a sinner, after all, we are all sinners.” I guess that’s the logical result of the old “faith alone without works” dilemma that started the whole Protestant ball rolling.

Now that I look at it, I think that my original inclination to encourage my family members to be Protestants has to do with invincible ignorance. I can’t imagine why any Christian would want to be anything but Catholic, so Protestants must be afflicted with invincible ignorance. It’s not that they 'see the truth, but reject it" - it’s that they just don’t see it, for whatever reason. Maybe they were taught wrong from childhood, maybe they had bad experiences with Catholics or the Church, yada yada yada. Honestly, the state of Catholic catechesis when I was growing up was abysmal. I went to Catholic schools, even graduated from a Catholic college, and was still basically ignorant. Never even heard the word “apologetics,” never read a word of any Vatican II document, nothing on Catholic spirituality, saints, etc. I would say that 98% of what I now know about our beautiful faith was learned after I returned to the Church following a 14 year absence. For that reason, I can well see how my loved ones can be invincibly ignorant of the faith, even though they were “raised Catholic.”

So, if Protestants are well-meaning but suffer from invincible ignorance, it seems to me that they would be held to a lesser standard than those who do know the truth. If someone doesn’t recognize a mortal sin to be mortal, then it’s not mortal for them, right? I realize that I’m trying to make excuses for my loved ones. But it seems to me that by claiming to be Catholic, they are unwittingly holding themselves to the higher Catholic standard, and possibly condemning themselves. But if they are honest with themselves and with God, and acknowledge that they are Protestants, they would not only be held to a lesser standard, but also avoid causing scandal within the Church. Negative influences like that can spread and incite others to dissent also.
Yes, more liberal Protestantism is accepting of same sex marriage etc and so on. But just because something isn’t call mortal sin in the same way as the Catholic Church doesn’t mean a number of Protestants don’t take moral sins seriously, because they do. You are making some bad assumption and generalizations here. If they are bad Catholics, they will not be better Protestants. Basically, if someone isn’t serious about following God, they are not going to be any better as a Protestant. Lack of Church attendance, immoral behavior etc are not accepted in a large number of Protestant groups. Personal piety, reading the Bible, attending Church not just on Sunday AM but may include Sunday Pm and Wednesday. A serious and devout Protestant puts to shame Catholics that don’t take their faith seriously. You are trying to make a point that they are a bad influence on others but our current culture does that very well already. A part time Catholic isn’t going to influence anyone in the Church because of their own attendance or lack there of.
 
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