Good question from a student

  • Thread starter Thread starter buc_fan33
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

buc_fan33

Guest
Hello,

One of my students posed this question to me this week, and, I must admit, that I am stumped. Here’s the question:
If God, who is all good, cannot actively will evil, how do we explain things such as the slaughter of the firstborn in Egypt, or the Great Flood? I get that he passively wills evil by allowing it to occur so that a greater good can come from it, but the Christian claim is that he does not actively will evil. But God actively willed the destruction of the first-born and of the Great Flood. How?
Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
 
Hello,

One of my students posed this question to me this week, and, I must admit, that I am stumped. Here’s the question:
If God, who is all good, cannot actively will evil, how do we explain things such as the slaughter of the firstborn in Egypt, or the Great Flood? I get that he passively wills evil by allowing it to occur so that a greater good can come from it, but the Christian claim is that he does not actively will evil. But God actively willed the destruction of the first-born and of the Great Flood. How?
Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
 
One thing to remember is the distinction between the Christian’s concept of death and the materialist’s. For the latter, it is the ultimate bad thing, because that is it–as stated by “Will” in Clint Eastwood’s Unforgiven “You take away everything a man has or will ever have”. For the Christian, death is the initiation into a new life–the tragedy is more that a person may have entered into eternity not prepared for it.

God provides Hell for those who deserve it–those who ultimetly choose it. A big part of faith is trusting God has the wisdom to “make the call”.
 
Perhaps it was not evil?

We are not omniscient.

Perhaps if those firstborn were to grow up in Pagan Egypt, they would have grown up to commit all sorts of damnable atrocities against the enslaved Jews!

Maybe it was out of mercy that they were killed when they were, instead of growing up to live wicked, damnable lives!

We do not know the fate of these Children, but we do know that God is Love 😉
 
Hello,

One of my students posed this question to me this week, and, I must admit, that I am stumped. Here’s the question:

Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
The people destroyed in the Old Testament were pedophiles. They enageged in cannibalism and sacrificed their children, burned them alive to the god Molech. They were incestuous, ate their own children, sold their young sons to be boy prostitutues in the pagan temples, and were homosexual gang rapists.

They were completely evil, not going to repent, and it was God’s will that evil be removed from the world.

-Tim-
 
20 Then Job arose and tore his cloak and cut off his hair. He fell to the ground and worshiped. 21He said,
“Naked I came forth from my mother’s womb,f
and naked shall I go back there.*
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
blessed be the name of the LORD!”
If you are walking down the street and God decides to punch your ticket, who are you to question God ? He gave you that life. It’s not yours, it’s His!

The life we get is eternal from conception. This earthly life is only a part of the whole life. If God ends our earthly life, then rewards us with eternity in utter bliss, was the earthly death really significant ?
 
We have to remember that God is all just as well as all loving. Before the time of Christ’s redemption of the world, God’s justice was meted out much more immediately and finally. We live in the age of grace in which God holds back his punishing hand in order to bring all men to repentence.

In the case of the firstborn of Egypt, they suffered the punishment the pharoah had ordered against the Jews when he ordered the midwives to kill the firstborn male children, of which one would have been Moses. They were getting what they had dished out for their wickedness.

The flood occured because men had been become wicked and disobeyed God, trying to build a world in which man would be supreme–sounds a lot like today, doesn’t it? The difference being, again, that since Christ came and worked our redemption, God’s justice has been held back in order to show his love for us.

Those who died under God’s punishments didn’t necessarily merit eternal punishment, not the innocent, of course. But we also have to remember that we are God’s creation with whom he can do as he pleases. He was pleased to redeem us in Christ instead of raining down punishment wholesale upon mankind, as he would have been justified in doing. Rather, he made covenants with man beginning with Adam (the flood was the result of man breaking that covenant) and Abraham, Moses, and finally his last covenant in Christ. I hope that helps. 🙂
 
Might I also suggest reading the introductions in the NAB-RE to OT, the Pentateuch and Genesis to the students. This might shed some light on the origin and purpose of these stories. 👍
 
Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
Those who died under God’s punishments didn’t necessarily merit eternal punishment, not the innocent, of course.
If I may dovetail on this point. If there were innocents who died and they ended up in heaven, then the eternal glory and bliss into which they have been received obliterates any “temporal pain” in the event of their earthly deaths.

As well, as Catholics, we read the OT in light of the NT and vice-versa. The sacrifice made by those children points us to the reality of receiving the blood of Christ in the Eucharist (i.e. the slaughtered Lamb which was eaten in the OT) or the importance of baptism in salvation as Peter compared the flood of Noah in 1 Peter 3. All this teaches us the path from eternal death to eternal life. So if God, in His providence, took those OT creatures into heaven as a sign to the NT generation so that the whole lot of them can go to heaven, then love is behind the whole thing.
 
Life is God’s, not ours. If He takes what He has given, it is not an evil.

When a human being takes a life that God has given, that is an evil because a human being is placing himself before God.
 
I think we need to figure out what makes the killing of another person evil. It is wrong for us to kill because we will be taking a life that isn’t ours. However, God owns our lives. He is not wrong to call us home as he desires.
 
Hello,

One of my students posed this question to me this week, and, I must admit, that I am stumped. Here’s the question:

If God, who is all good, cannot actively will evil, how do we explain things such as the slaughter of the firstborn in Egypt, or the Great Flood? I get that he passively wills evil by allowing it to occur so that a greater good can come from it, but the Christian claim is that he does not actively will evil. But God actively willed the destruction of the first-born and of the Great Flood. How?

Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
I would give different answers depending on the age of your student. For a child I would explain that Pharaoh could have prevented the death of the first born by freeing the Israelites. He had seen the previous plagues over and over as Moses’ prophecies and warning were fulfilled. Likewise, we should be aware of warnings God sends us when we get in the habit of disobedience. Like how one lie can lead to another, and another until we get caught and punished.
For someone who has been a Christian for a long time, and is strong in their faith I would say the lesson is that those who defy God bring about their own destruction (Flood) and the destruction of others (Pharaoh).I’m not talking about physical destruction or punishment in this world, we see many examples of the unrighteous prospering. If we live the wrong lifestyle it will lead to the destruction of our soul (Flood) and allowing pride to keep us form doing right may also lead to the destruction of the souls of our loved ones (First Born). Good luck with your student, the best are the ones who challenge us!👍
 
You also have to consider that God is not good in the sense that good an evil are above, or outside of, God. God is good because he is the standard by what we consider good. So, what God wills is good.
 
Hello,

One of my students posed this question to me this week, and, I must admit, that I am stumped. Here’s the question:

Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
The most fundamental question is what is evil for God? Not, what seems evil to us.

The fundamental answer is that God is the author and owner of all life. As such he may take it or give it as he sees BEST and necessary. Even if this SEEMS evil to us.

There are those who take the lives of the unborn and think they have the right. To them it dosen’t seem evil. But when it comes to God, then it seems evil.

God chose to take the first born, his right, in order to preserve the chosen people, who would eventually deliver the saviour to the world, who was his only beloved son Jesus, Immanuel. Even tho this may seem evil using tunnel vision.

But still it wasn’t like God just took out his sword and slayed them for enjoyment. They had the 10 plagues, 10 warnings, and they gave 10 refusals.

This would also hold true for the great flood. Noah also warned the people who laughed at them.

But this question just begs another: why the evil of suffering? Or better, how to handle the evil of suffering.

And this is one of the arguments of atheism which is discussed quite frequently on CAF.

Just a thought.
 
Hello,

One of my students posed this question to me this week, and, I must admit, that I am stumped. Here’s the question:

Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
Evil, or consequence? God definitely willed Adam and Eve out of the garden - that they should have to work, toil, suffer and die. This was a consequence of their actions. But, these consequences are supposed to bring us to a greater love.

While the first born dying was a huge suffering, it also gave Pharaoh the opportunity to repent. But, he chose not to, and so he hardened his heart even more. Had he repented, he would have had possibly the chance of knowing and loving God.

“Evil” consequences happen to both the guilty and the innocent (Jesus, innocent, was crucified with two guilty thieves.) One guilty thief repented and was saved, the other didn’t repent (we don’t know what happened to him)

We all know about the spoiled brat who is unruly to be around. They are truly the most unloved children because they aren’t punished for their wicked deeds. Sometimes the punishment extends all the way to the innocent (in the case of the firstborns dying) because that is the just consequence. But always, always, we have the chance to accept this consequence and by doing so, grow closer to God.
 
Hello,

One of my students posed this question to me this week, and, I must admit, that I am stumped. Here’s the question:

Anybody have any good suggestions for an answer?
Rather than cry out against God, evil actually cries out for God in at least three ways. First, as just observed, we have no way of knowing something is really evil unless there is a God who established the moral law by which we can judge it to be evil. Second, as every pastor knows, the only real help when someone is suffering comes from God. To whom else shall we turn – He has the words of eternal life (John 6:68). When this life is fading, the only real comfort is the hope of eternal life. As the apostle put it, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God” (2 Cor 1:3-4). Third, the only realistic expectation that there will be an end of evil someday is that Christ has already defeated it. Hebrews declares of Christ that “he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil” (Heb 2:14). The apostle John saw the completion of this process when he wrote, “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away” (Rev.
21:4).

then If God Created Only Good Things, Then Where Did Evil Come From?

If God is all-good and if He created only good things, then where did evil come from? How can evil come from what is perfectly good? Long ago, St. Augustine answered this by noting that one of the good things God made was free choice. It is good to be free. We all enjoy it. No one marches against freedom. Even if someone did, he would be enjoying the good of his freedom to do so. But if it is good to be free, then evil is possible. We cannot be free to love God unless we are also free not to love Him. We cannot be free to praise God unless we are also free to curse Him. So evil began when a free creature (Lucifer) used his good freedom to will the good of the creature over the good of the Creator.
Shalom
God Bless
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top