Good resource about research on homosexuality

[CopticChristian]

Let me make it incredibly simple for you. Even a 7 year old could answer this.

Don’t write paragraphs… Just answer yes or no. No conjecture is required.

Do they have the same ethnic origin as him? Yes or no?

Christopher is bullied at school because he is homosexual. He goes home to his heterosexual parents for support. Do they have the same sexual orientation as him? Yes or no?

How is it anyone can know what Christopher was bullied for. He perceives he was bullied for his homosexuallity and it may not be so. His parents may be normal but we do not know what his parents think about anything.

Brent is bullied at school because he is black. He goes home to his black African-American parents for support.

Brent may have been bullied at school for being black. We cannot know without asking Brent. His black african-amercian parents may be from Ethiopia, Kenya, South Africa and in that case may be white. Just because someone is black and from Africa it is impossible to generalize about this. This is discrimination. I have lived with descendants from Ethiopia, Kenya and South Africa and their attitudes differ.

These are not simple yes or no questions. A person versed in sociology would not pose these questions, leading to the obvious conclusion as to the mindset of the posture from which these questions come.

 

[DexUK]

It was a simple question.

Why won’t you answer it? It doesn’t need breaking down. It was a simple situation and you can assume the reasons why ‘Christopher’ and ‘Brent’ were bullied were exactly as they were stated.

You persist in trying to rethink other people’s experiences. Their experiences are 100% genuine to them.

Let me give you a real life example of bullying that went too far (at least I hope you’d agree it went too far).

The was a boy, his family are my friends and therefore I will not name him or give too many details out of respect for them… he was bisexual, assaulted (for that reason) on several occasions by others at his school. Despite his parents’ support, he committed suicide at 17 years old. His message to his family was that he couldn’t go on because he felt all alone in the world. Nobody he knew could understand the pain he was going through because nobody else was the same as him.

You clearly do not understand what bullying is or how it is perceived by the victim, how they experience a separation from the world, in particular if there is no part of their world that they can go to for solace that properly understands what it is to be in their shoes.

You accuse me of conjecture. You have no idea who I have met, the evidence I have collected, the accounts I have heard, who I have spend hours and days talking to. You have no idea of the children I have cared for and about with all my heart and soul, or the tears I’ve shed for those who have been cruelly denied their happiness.

If you think I’m going to be telling you about their private details on a public internet site, you have another thing coming, but I won’t be accused of conjecture or fantasy by you.

I know what I am talking about. It’s real life, not some biased study written by someone with a point to prove. These are real people’s lives, real pain, real deaths that you dismiss so easily. I won’t give up fighting for them.

 

[Stephen168]

Let me explain using an analogy;

Men are stronger than women.
I am a woman, I am stronger than some men.

These two statements are not in disagreement because when people make this sort of assertion they are referring to statistical averages.

Are you saying we can completely discount your strength because men are stronger than women? (ie. Women should not be firefights because it requires strength; and men or stronger than women)

 

[Aviatrix]

Are you saying we can completely discount your strength because men are stronger than women? (ie. Women should not be firefights because it requires strength; and men or stronger than women)

What on earth? That is a non-sequitur.

If that is was case, and to apply it to the other situation that is referenced, we should discount livingwordunity’s experience of bullying.

That is clearly the opposite of what I am trying to say, as you can see from where I said " I fully believe that you were treated worse than some homosexual people were treated"

I’m not sure if you are trying to draw me into some sort of an argument about women in certain occupations, but if you are you’ll have to either try harder or start a new thread.

 

[livingwordunity]

Conjecture?

It’s obvious!

Black kid gets racially abused, goes home to black parents who know what it is like and can affirm from a position of equality.

Gay kid gets homophobically abused, goes home to straight parents who may or may not attempt to affirm but can never do so from an equal standpoint.

That’s not conjecture. That’s simple maths!

You don’t know every black kid that has ever been abused. You do not know every child that suffers from SSA and what family they go home to after whatever abuse you believe occurred. You have no ability to know what abuse, the intensity of the abuse, if it was real or percieved and you have no ability to state anything about any child knowing that this can occur in many age ranges that would be a different experience depending on the age. Obvious is apprarantly not obvious.

This

 

[Stephen168]

What on earth? That is a non-sequitur.

If that is was case, and to apply it to the other situation that is referenced, we should discount livingwordunity’s experience of bullying.

That is clearly the opposite of what I am trying to say, as you can see from where I said " I fully believe that you were treated worse than some homosexual people were treated"

I’m not sure if you are trying to draw me into some sort of an argument about women in certain occupations, but if you are you’ll have to either try harder or start a new thread.

It was a question. Non-sequiturs are statements.
It also could not be the opposite of what you were trying to say because I did not say anything. I asked a question.
You didn’t clearly answer the question.

 

[Aviatrix]

It was a question. Non-sequiturs are statements.
It also could not be the opposite of what you were trying to say because I did say anything. I asked a question.
You didn’t clearly answer the question.

Non-sequitur literally means “does not follow”. I was saying I do not understand how your question logically follows my statements. I answered your question when I said

“That is clearly the opposite of what I am trying to say”

Or, more simply; No, that is not what I am saying, either in regards to myself or to livingworldunity.

But, in case you still doubt me, I’ll amend my original response and add more words to help you understand.

You asked

re you saying we can completely discount your strength because men are stronger than women? (ie. Women should not be firefights because it requires strength; and men or stronger than women)

Me saying we can completely discount my strength etc. is a non-sequitur in light of what I actually originally posted.

That we can completely discount my strength etc, as applied to the analogy, is clearly the opposite of what I am trying to say, as you can see from where I said (to livingworldunity) " I fully believe that you were treated worse than some homosexual people were treated

Does that clear it up?

 

[Stephen168]

Statistics that show that gay people get treated worse with bullying are the reason that people say that gay people get treated worse with bullying.

No one is saying that all homosexual people are treated worse than you were. I fully believe that you were treated worse than some homosexual people were treated.

No,

thanks

 

[Stephen168]

Non-sequitur literally means “does not follow”. I was saying I do not understand how your question logically follows my statements.

I know what non-sequitur means. Your confusion on the purpose of a question doesn’t make a question a non-sequitur. A non-sequitur is a series of statements not a question. You might refrain from jumping to conclusions in the future and just answer the question.

 

[Stephen168]

Does that clear it up?

No

 

[Aviatrix]

I know what non-sequitur means. Your confusion on the purpose of a question doesn’t make a question a non-sequitur. A non-sequitur is a series of statements not a question. You might refrain from jumping to conclusions in the future and just answer the question.

I did answer the question, when I said “That is clearly the opposite of what I am trying to say”
Non-sequitur can be and is used in manners apart from a series of statements.

thanks

You are welcome.

 

[Stephen168]

I did answer the question, when I said “That is clearly the opposite of what I am trying to say”

It also could not be the opposite of what you were trying to say because I did not say anything. I asked a question.

 

[Stephen168]

Non-sequitur can be and is used in manners apart from a series of statements.

Never a question

 

[Aviatrix]

Really?

“Are you trying to say that…”

“That is the opposite of what I am trying to say”

Do you not see how the one responds to the other?

 

[Aviatrix]

Never a question

From wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic as an example:

It can also refer to a response that is totally unrelated to the original statement or question:
Mary: I wonder how Mrs. Knowles’ next-door neighbor is doing.
Jim: Did you hear that the convenience store two blocks over got robbed last night? Thieves got away with a small fortune

In this case Jim’s question was a non-sequitur to Mary’s statement.

If you amend your statement to “not often a question”, I will agree with you.

 

[Stephen168]

Really?

yes, really

 

[Aviatrix]

My apologies then, I haven’t encountered someone who does not see the connection between the two, and thus did not expect it to be confusing. I was not deliberately trying to confuse you, or to not answer the question. To my mind I had answered the question.

I do think “You might refrain from jumping to conclusions in the future and just answer the question” was uncalled for. You could have said something along the lines of “Your answer was not clear to me”

 

[Stephen168]

From wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic as an example:

It can also refer to a response that is totally unrelated to the original statement or question:
Mary: I wonder how Mrs. Knowles’ next-door neighbor is doing.
Jim: Did you hear that the convenience store two blocks over got robbed last night? Thieves got away with a small fortune

In this case Jim’s question was a non-sequitur to Mary’s statement.

If you amend your statement to “not often a question”, I will agree with you.

The “example” you gave is not contained in the link you gave. Your example is not using non-sequitur as a logical fallacy. Your example is just disjointed communication; not a logical fallacy.

 

[Aviatrix]

The “example” you gave is not contained in the link you gave. Your example is not using non-sequitur as a logical fallacy. Your example is just disjointed communication; not a logical fallacy.

Ack. The last bracket of the URL missed the hyperlink. Here is the correct one. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic

I hope this one works, if not, just click on “Did you mean: Non sequitur (logic)” The example is under the heading “Non sequitur in everyday speech” and is the second example.

 

[Aviatrix]

I hope we can put our disagreement to rest and move on to other things, as I do not think either of us had any negative intentions here.