Good to Know or None of My Business?

[Anglewannabe]

First, I do think you need to have this discussion ASAP. If you can not bring it up before marriage as a general discussion, if ever sexual sin does put a strain on your marriage, bringing it up with the pain and hurt will be even harder.

Now my opinion. You have known this guy for a year. I think you can tell when you are his out in public how he treats women. You can see if his eyes wander inappropriately, you can hear the language he uses. I am going to assume he is a gentleman since you choose to stay with him

Also, I think after a year, you should know if he uses porn. Does he invite you to movies with nudity? All these are things you must have noticed by now.

Here is what I think is fair: To discuss/set a boundary that neither brings porn into the house, if out at a friends and there is porn, make a resolve to get out as quick as possible and never go back, when out with members of the opposite sex stay in public and behave appropriately

As for masturbation… with all due respect that is getting too much into a person’s personal thoughts and is between him and God. Whether he chooses to confess is his business. It is OK to ask about his views but if he is struggling with this, don’t embarrass him.

Honestly, I think masturbation has existed way before porn. I think the difference is people did it in private and just didn’t use outside visual things to get them in the mood but I am sure the urges crept up somehow. I also think probably a lot of people though they were the only ones who did it and never confessed because they probably thought the priest would not know what they were talking about. I think it is because people did not talk as openly about things before.

Everyone is tempted to sin. I am sure there are times when a married person secretly thinks of shooting their in-laws. Should they tell their spouse? No, it would just cause a fight. Should they confess their sins? Yes to a priest. Masturbation is no different. It happens but discussing every nitty gritty details is not good for a marriage

Angie

 

[Plastic_Spoon]

I cannot imagine being in a serious relationship with someone and not talking about these issues. I don’t think you have to wait until you are engaged to talk about it. By the time I got engaged, my wife and I had already had every discussion of every serious issue imaginable. How else do you know you should get engaged?

But yeah, bringing it up first in a general way is probably better than making him squirm by asking him the question point blank. At least as a way of introducing things. I think it’s a fair question to ask a serious boyfriend/girlfriend eventually, though.

I should add that I don’t think people need to divulge graphic play-by-plays of their history in this area. That’s generally not beneficial. But knowing each other’s general history and – even more importantly – how they feel about the morality of such behavior now is something that is important to know before marriage.

First, I do think you need to have this discussion ASAP. If you can not bring it up before marriage as a general discussion, if ever sexual sin does put a strain on your marriage, bringing it up with the pain and hurt will be even harder.

Now my opinion. You have known this guy for a year. I think you can tell when you are his out in public how he treats women. You can see if his eyes wander inappropriately, you can hear the language he uses. I am going to assume he is a gentleman since you choose to stay with him

Also, I think after a year, you should know if he uses porn. Does he invite you to movies with nudity? All these are things you must have noticed by now.

Here is what I think is fair: To discuss/set a boundary that neither brings porn into the house, if out at a friends and there is porn, make a resolve to get out as quick as possible and never go back, when out with members of the opposite sex stay in public and behave appropriately

As for masturbation… with all due respect that is getting too much into a person’s personal thoughts and is between him and God. Whether he chooses to confess is his business. It is OK to ask about his views but if he is struggling with this, don’t embarrass him.

Honestly, I think masturbation has existed way before porn. I think the difference is people did it in private and just didn’t use outside visual things to get them in the mood but I am sure the urges crept up somehow. I also think probably a lot of people though they were the only ones who did it and never confessed because they probably thought the priest would not know what they were talking about. I think it is because people did not talk as openly about things before.

Everyone is tempted to sin. I am sure there are times when a married person secretly thinks of shooting their in-laws. Should they tell their spouse? No, it would just cause a fight. Should they confess their sins? Yes to a priest. Masturbation is no different. It happens but discussing every nitty gritty details is not good for a marriage

Angie

Again, clarity eludes me. You all do an excellent job of making me realize the deeper question behind my question. These posts addressed many of my wonderings though, thank you. (as did others, I’m just not good at the quote thing just yet.)

I guess I just mostly want to know his feelings on it. He has had another serious girlfriend before, and I don’t want to know anything about what they may or may not have done together, and this is in the same camp. I understand his actions themselves are none of my business, and I really don’t want to know. I just want to know if he’s on the “it’s totally fine, natural, fun, etc.” bandwagon or understanding of the Church’s teaching and has every intention of following that.

Not having that attitude probably would affect a marriage and the upbringing of future children. I don’t want my sons to be taught that such a practice is all good and well and nothing to be ashamed of…

I really don’t know about porn use or lack thereof either. He is respectful when we’re out and doesn’t leer, but he might do in the privacy of his own home is another matter. I’ve always just assumed he didn’t use it. It’s easier and nicer that way. But I realize that I do have to be more mature and make sure everything is where it should be before more seriously considering marrying this man. Angie’s post made me realize I don’t necessarily know things about him that I should, admittedly from my own lack of being attentive.

And maybe a lot of this comes from 1) realizing he hadn’t been to confession in 10 years and 2) my very recent discovery that he occasionally smokes marijuana. I had no idea and was shocked that he does/has for years. I was just raised in a way that opposed its use, and I just always imagined I’d raise my kids with the same ideas. This has inspired a lot of thought though… I haven’t said anything to him about it though because I was just shocked, and I really don’t know what the Church teaches about the use of marijuana. I know it’s a plant God put on this earth, and maybe the Church has nothing against it. I really don’t know. It’s just got me thinking. But this is a different can of worms entirely… Thanks for letting me think out loud, CAF and providing your help.

 

[Chantal25]

And maybe a lot of this comes from 1) realizing he hadn’t been to confession in 10 years and 2) my very recent discovery that he occasionally smokes marijuana. I had no idea and was shocked that he does/has for years. I was just raised in a way that opposed its use, and I just always imagined I’d raise my kids with the same ideas.

This is a deal breaker. What you know of him now, will intensify many years from now.

Do you want to deal with someone that has no problem to take marijuana?

All the best!

 

[Joe_5859]

Again, clarity eludes me. You all do an excellent job of making me realize the deeper question behind my question. These posts addressed many of my wonderings though, thank you. (as did others, I’m just not good at the quote thing just yet.)

I guess I just mostly want to know his feelings on it. He has had another serious girlfriend before, and I don’t want to know anything about what they may or may not have done together, and this is in the same camp. I understand his actions themselves are none of my business, and I really don’t want to know. I just want to know if he’s on the “it’s totally fine, natural, fun, etc.” bandwagon or understanding of the Church’s teaching and has every intention of following that.

Not having that attitude probably would affect a marriage and the upbringing of future children. I don’t want my sons to be taught that such a practice is all good and well and nothing to be ashamed of…

I really don’t know about porn use or lack thereof either. He is respectful when we’re out and doesn’t leer, but he might do in the privacy of his own home is another matter. I’ve always just assumed he didn’t use it. It’s easier and nicer that way. But I realize that I do have to be more mature and make sure everything is where it should be before more seriously considering marrying this man. Angie’s post made me realize I don’t necessarily know things about him that I should, admittedly from my own lack of being attentive.

And maybe a lot of this comes from 1) realizing he hadn’t been to confession in 10 years and 2) my very recent discovery that he occasionally smokes marijuana. I had no idea and was shocked that he does/has for years. I was just raised in a way that opposed its use, and I just always imagined I’d raise my kids with the same ideas. This has inspired a lot of thought though… I haven’t said anything to him about it though because I was just shocked, and I really don’t know what the Church teaches about the use of marijuana. I know it’s a plant God put on this earth, and maybe the Church has nothing against it. I really don’t know. It’s just got me thinking. But this is a different can of worms entirely… Thanks for letting me think out loud, CAF and providing your help.

Yes, a couple definitely needs to work out for themselves an agreeable level of information sharing regarding past history. Some people don’t want to know. Maybe I am just weird, but I never shied away from the “How far have you gone?” conversation. Which is odd because I am normally quite reserved.

I would say that past history is less important than current beliefs and practice. The main reason a discussion of past history can be beneficial is because of the light it can shed on current beliefs.

I can understand your wonderings in light of the shocking information you just learned. It does make you wonder what other shocking things might be around the corner.

These conversations are not always easy, but it is far better to have them before marriage rather than after. Raising childen together is a lot easier if you are both on the same page as to your moral outlook on life. You want to know what you are getting into and whether it is something you can live with for the rest of your life. Having an awkward conversation today is better than getting blind-sided and becoming resentful later on.

Perhaps you are not looking for advice on this aspect, but the marijuana thing would make me uneasy. I’m fairly anti-smoking of anything, though. Morality of the actual smoking aside, it would trouble me if my significant other had no qualms about circumventing the law in this regard. For me, it would raise concerns about what she would let our future teenagers get away with.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

You have to be careful, repeated drug abuse might one day lead to masturbation.

 

[Plastic_Spoon]

This is a deal breaker. What you know of him now, will intensify many years from now.

Do you want to deal with someone that has no problem to take marijuana?

All the best!

This is hard because it always was a dealbreaker in the past. I never considered dating people I knew to be stoners in the past. This is hard though because I am so involved with Tom (my boyfriend) and he has so many wonderful qualities. He apparently doesn’t do it that frequently, but I didn’t even think of it as a possibility.

He says it’s “just a plant that God Himself put on the Earth. It provides a way to relax and think deeply about various life aspects. What is wrong with that?” Maybe he is right. maybe it’s not inherently wrong. I just don’t know. I haven’t brought it up with him because I’ve never given marijuana use a lot of thought and never anticipated having to. And if neither Church or state is against it, why should I make it an issue?

Yes, a couple definitely needs to work out for themselves an agreeable level of information sharing regarding past history. Some people don’t want to know. Maybe I am just weird, but I never shied away from the “How far have you gone?” conversation. Which is odd because I am normally quite reserved.

I would say that past history is less important than current beliefs and practice. The main reason a discussion of past history can be beneficial is because of the light it can shed on current beliefs.

I can understand your wonderings in light of the shocking information you just learned. It does make you wonder what other shocking things might be around the corner.

These conversations are not always easy, but it is far better to have them before marriage rather than after. Raising childen together is a lot easier if you are both on the same page as to your moral outlook on life. You want to know what you are getting into and whether it is something you can live with for the rest of your life. Having an awkward conversation today is better than getting blind-sided and becoming resentful later on.

Perhaps you are not looking for advice on this aspect, but the marijuana thing would make me uneasy. I’m fairly anti-smoking of anything, though. Morality of the actual smoking aside, it would trouble me if my significant other had no qualms about circumventing the law in this regard. For me, it would raise concerns about what she would let our future teenagers get away with.

I guess just knowing his past with other girls (if there is one) would just make me feel insecure and put ghosts in my head that don’t need to be there.

I wholeheartedly agree with your points though.

I am looking for advice on the marijuana aspect, I just wasn’t sure if this was the place for it. (I am also anti smoking anything. The smells themselves make me want to gag, morality aside. But apparently there are other ways to use marijuana…) We live in a state where marijuana was recently legalized, so that isn’t necessarily a point of contention. But that is exactly my concern with teenagers. Or when does the use of marijuana end? In my mind, the thought of a 60 year old man using marijuana recreationally is pretty childish. Maybe I’m wrong.

You have to be careful, repeated drug abuse might one day lead to masturbation.

The humor is appreciated.

I just am more concerned about the dedication to adhere to Church teachings than the acts themselves though. Half the reason I wanted to date and eventually marry a Catholic guy is so that these would be battles I wouldn’t have to fight! Haha.

 

[BettyBoop416]

You have to be careful, repeated drug abuse might one day lead to masturbation.

I sure hope that was meant as a joke, because I almost ruptured a lung laughing at that.

 

[BettyBoop416]

I just am more concerned about the dedication to adhere to Church teachings than the acts themselves though. Half the reason I wanted to date and eventually marry a Catholic guy is so that these would be battles I wouldn’t have to fight! Haha.

I think you have, with these two sentences, boiled your whole dilemma down to one question. Is that fact that he might not adhere to some Church teachings a deal breaker for you? If it is, your course of action is clear - do yourself (and, quite honestly, him too) a favor and break it off.

 

[Anglewannabe]

He says it’s “just a plant that God Himself put on the Earth. It provides a way to relax and think deeply about various life aspects. What is wrong with that?” .

I tried to be polite in my earlier post, but I think it is time I am more blunt. His argument sounds like a swinging free love mentality that should have gone out with the 6os.

The reason 60 years look childish using marijuana is because it is childish even for a 25 year old. Honestly, you may have been with this guy for a year but it sounds like you do not know him at all. How can a guy hide he uses marijuana for a year, even if it is just occasionally? How can a couple who is about to discern marriage never talked about views regarding sexual sins. You are 21 and that is more than old enough to address these topics.

Ask yourself honestly ‘Have you avoided asking these questions because you knew the answers would make you break up?’ If you will have your answer

Angie

 

[EasterJoy]

…He says it’s “just a plant that God Himself put on the Earth. It provides a way to relax and think deeply about various life aspects. What is wrong with that?” Maybe he is right. maybe it’s not inherently wrong. I just don’t know. I haven’t brought it up with him because I’ve never given marijuana use a lot of thought and never anticipated having to. And if neither Church or state is against it, why should I make it an issue?..

Some local governments have made marijuana use OK for medical reasons, and although I wouldn’t stick my nose in if he were a cancer patient or had some other legitimate medical condition that it is used to treat, there is no place on earth that marijuana use is entirely legal. The Church doesn’t permit illegal activities except when compelling moral reasons overrule the justice of the laws forbidding them. Altering your mind for recreational reasons isn’t one of them.

More to the point, while I know many who use marijuana recreationally in order to relax, I’d be really suspicious of anyone who thinks that marijuana makes him into a deep thinker. Anybody I know who actually IS a deep thinker and has ever actually written down the “deep thoughts” they had while smoking pot have reported that what seemed like deep thoughts at the time were, well, utterly inane. If he doesn’t know that marijuana robs him of both ambition and common sense, that’s a red flag. The boy must not have the common sense that the Good Lord put into a bowl of cherries.

 

[BettyBoop416]

[T]here is no place on earth that marijuana use is entirely legal.

Interestingly, marijuana is not considered a drug in North Korea, and there are no laws regulating it’s possession, use or sale.

That might explain some of the nuttiness we are seeing out of the North Korean leadership these days.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

He says it’s “just a plant that God Himself put on the Earth. It provides a way to relax and think deeply about various life aspects. What is wrong with that?”

That’s what ALL the stoners say.

Boring. Stupid. A HUGE waste of money, time, and brain cells. Also illegal (unless you are in Colorado, but then there are the federal laws which are still in effect).

Think twice about Tom.

 

[EasterJoy]

Interestingly, marijuana is not considered a drug in North Korea, and there are no laws regulating it’s possession, use or sale.

That might explain some of the nuttiness we are seeing out of the North Korean leadership these days.

That has changed, because the last time I checked there weren’t any countries that had totally legalized it. I stand corrected…although as you imply, what is permitted in North Korea isn’t relevant when you don’t live there.

 

[EasterJoy]

Incidentally, that you are capable of getting a man who wants to marry you all hot and bothered isn’t prudent, but it doesn’t mean he’s any less pure than you are. That is the sign that your bodies are primed for the natural aspects of marriage. He might be a bit more “primed” than you are, but sometimes it is something that both parties find very frustrating and almost more tempting than they can endure. This is why St. Paul said that both men and women do better to marry than to be on fire.

You are correct in seeing that you put him into a near occasion of sin by engaging in activities that get the two of you so arroused, an occasion of sin that goes on after the two of you part. I would not automatically assume that a man is automatically more tempted towards sin by that kind of situation than a woman is. Some are, but some women are more so. That business about “repeated male arousal without release is extremely uncomfortable” is, I think, primarily spread about in order to put a guilt trip onto a woman that some man finds arouses him, as if she is therefore responsible for “relieving” his discomfort, instead of him recognizing that he ought to avoid things that feel good now and make him extremely uncomfortable later. If something makes a man that uncomfortable, a man with enough going on to head a household can surely figure out which things interfere with his own self-mastery, if self-mastery interests him, and avoid them without implying that his condition is someone else’s fault. Still, unless he’s the one saying this, don’t blame him that you’re worried that he might be thinking it. If he’s not burdening you with the thought that you are responsible for his state of temptation, that is well. He can turn down the heat himself without putting something like that onto you.

 

[Plastic_Spoon]

Incidentally, that you are capable of getting a man who wants to marry you all hot and bothered isn’t prudent, but it doesn’t mean he’s any less pure than you are. That is the sign that your bodies are primed for the natural aspects of marriage. He might be a bit more “primed” than you are, but sometimes it is something that both parties find very frustrating and almost more tempting than they can endure. This is why St. Paul said that both men and women do better to marry than to be on fire.

All very true.
Apparently there is a lot do be done/discussed before that point, however…

You are correct in seeing that you put him into a near occasion of sin by engaging in activities that get the two of you so arroused, an occasion of sin that goes on after the two of you part. I would not automatically assume that a man is automatically more tempted towards sin by that kind of situation than a woman is. Some are, but some women are more so. That business about “repeated male arousal without release is extremely uncomfortable” is, I think, primarily spread about in order to put a guilt trip onto a woman that some man finds arouses him, as if she is therefore responsible for “relieving” his discomfort, instead of him recognizing that he ought to avoid things that feel good now and make him extremely uncomfortable later. If something makes a man that uncomfortable, a man with enough going on to head a household can surely figure out which things interfere with his own self-mastery, if self-mastery interests him, and avoid them without implying that his condition is someone else’s fault. Still, unless he’s the one saying this, don’t blame him that you’re worried that he might be thinking it. If he’s not burdening you with the thought that you are responsible for his state of temptation, that is well. He can turn down the heat himself without putting something like that onto you.

Agreed on all points. Thanks for your insight.

I think you have, with these two sentences, boiled your whole dilemma down to one question. Is that fact that he might not adhere to some Church teachings a deal breaker for you? If it is, your course of action is clear - do yourself (and, quite honestly, him too) a favor and break it off.

I obviously can’t, in good conscience, put a person above God. I’m still sorting out whether he would refuse to go against Church teachings though…

Honestly, you may have been with this guy for a year but it sounds like you do not know him at all. How can a guy hide he uses marijuana for a year, even if it is just occasionally?
Angie

I don’t know. I guess it’s really not that frequent. He just started a new job and took a drug test and wasn’t concerned about it, which gave me further reason not to suspect anything. I found out because I called him last week and he apologized later for “sounding stupid” on the phone. He proceeded to tell me he had been smoking with his brother.

How can a couple who is about to discern marriage never talked about views regarding sexual sins. You are 21 and that is more than old enough to address these topics.
Angie

It’s easier than you might think. We’ve talked about God and Love and everything, I just assumed we’d all be on the same page. Which was naive.

Ask yourself honestly ‘Have you avoided asking these questions because you knew the answers would make you break up?’ If you will have your answer
Angie

I think it has been lately. It’s silly because I’m worried about offending him, but that really shouldn’t be the primary concern.

Some local governments have made marijuana use OK for medical reasons, and although I wouldn’t stick my nose in if he were a cancer patient or had some other legitimate medical condition that it is used to treat, there is no place on earth that marijuana use is entirely legal. The Church doesn’t permit illegal activities except when compelling moral reasons overrule the justice of the laws forbidding them. Altering your mind for recreational reasons isn’t one of them.

More to the point, while I know many who use marijuana recreationally in order to relax, I’d be really suspicious of anyone who thinks that marijuana makes him into a deep thinker. Anybody I know who actually IS a deep thinker and has ever actually written down the “deep thoughts” they had while smoking pot have reported that what seemed like deep thoughts at the time were, well, utterly inane. If he doesn’t know that marijuana robs him of both ambition and common sense, that’s a red flag. The boy must not have the common sense that the Good Lord put into a bowl of cherries.

True.

That’s what ALL the stoners say.

Boring. Stupid. A HUGE waste of money, time, and brain cells. Also illegal (unless you are in Colorado, but then there are the federal laws which are still in effect).

Think twice about Tom.

I am now. It’s hard though. But admittedly not harder than a lifetime of struggling through a marriage with a half-baked foundation. (no pun intended (but nevertheless still amused))