Good Works Through Grace v. Secular Good Works

[Cathoholic]

The original post had to do with the difference between . . . .

. . . . “Good Works Through Grace v. Secular Good Works”

Remember, the Church teaches that our works in grace is our cooperation of God WORKING in us.

Below are examples of the principle of “Good Works Through Grace” being carried out.

---

**
PHILIPPIANS 2:12a** 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation . . . !!!

HOW can we possibly DO this?? Fortunately St. Paul tells us in the very next sentence how. By God WORKING within us!

PHILIPPIANS 2:12-13 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Here are some more examples of Christ at work in us . . . .

2nd CORINTHIANS 6:1 1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.

PHILIPPIANS 4:13 13 I can do all things in him who strengthens me.

GALATIANS 2:20 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

EPHESIANS 3:20-21 20 Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

HEBREWS 13:20a, 21 “Now may the God of peace . . . . equip you with everything good that you may do His will, working in you that which is pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

JOHN 6:55-56 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

1st THESSALONIANS 2:13 13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

PHILIPPIANS 1:6 6 And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[someperson555]

The original post had to do with the difference between . . . .

. . . . “Good Works Through Grace v. Secular Good Works”

Remember, the Church teaches that our works in grace is our cooperation of God WORKING in us.

Below are examples of the principle of “Good Works Through Grace” being carried out.

---

**
PHILIPPIANS 2:12a** 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation . . . !!!

HOW can we possibly DO this?? Fortunately St. Paul tells us in the very next sentence how. By God WORKING within us!

PHILIPPIANS 2:12-13 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Here are some more examples of Christ at work in us . . . .

2nd CORINTHIANS 6:1 1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.

PHILIPPIANS 4:13 13 I can do all things in him who strengthens me.

GALATIANS 2:20 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

EPHESIANS 3:20-21 20 Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

HEBREWS 13:20a, 21 “Now may the God of peace . . . . equip you with everything good that you may do His will, working in you that which is pleasing in His sight through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

JOHN 6:55-56 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

1st THESSALONIANS 2:13 13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

PHILIPPIANS 1:6 6 And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Sorry, meant to reply earlier once again.
True christianity is about ego transcendence. One of the core messages of the bible is to shed our ego selves and find our true selves. So I believe that bible passage (galatians 2:20) actually proves my point rather than yours. Our good works can only be fruitful once we have shed out egos and discovered our true selves. Im sorry but merely believing in God does not make our works fruitful. You say that you do not hold a brownie points mentality. But all your quotes of " rewards" and " merits" tell me otherwise. All those passages you quoted mean something else than what you think.
Unfortunately so many religious people prey to this mode of thinking . So instead of shedding their egos, they just fall further into it. It makes me roll my eyes. I see all these ultra religious old ladies who just came back to the church in their fifties and now they pray all these devotions. They smile and they act the part of the " homecoming Catholic". I think lol they give a stale piece of bread to a homeless person and they think that by that action they must have secured a higher place in heaven for themselves. Yes, im sure they got a gold star for the day. On the surface they look like pious old ladies but I see whats REALLY going on. Theyre just trying to collect merits and secure great glory for themselves in the afterlife. But that is not the way it works.

Let me tell you something about merits and rewards. The highest most glorious people in heaven Will not be people prayed the most or recited the most novenas or gave the most money to the poor. It will be that person with cerebral palsy, it will be that person born severerly disfigured, it will be the person with autism.

Look at Jesus’ disciples. Who did Jesus choose as his followers? Was pharisees and scribes? NO. It was a bunch of fishermen and a tax collector.
Throughout the new testament it was gentiles and outcasts who demonstrated the greatest faith. Jesus was killed by religious people.

I could quote you a bunch of scripture but these two stand out. " even if I have faith that can move mountains, if I do not have love, I have nothing. " also:“there is hope, faith, and love. But the greatest of these is love. If you have love within you then you are not lost”.

 

[Cathoholic]

You say that you do not hold a brownie points mentality. But all your quotes of " rewards" and " merits" tell me otherwise.

I think your problem is with the Bible then someperson555.

This goes way beyond “shedding ego” and has to do with GRACE.

Faith IS a grace. Hope is a grace. Charity is a GRACE.

We NEED Christ to live in us. Without Jesus living in us, “shedding ego” will not be efficacious to our salvation.

As you and I both quoted (yours below and mine here):

1st CORINTHIANS 13:13 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The reason WHY this “love” or charity" is greater is because it is laced with “grace”. It is not a natural action alone. Yes there are natural elements but they by themselves are not good enough.

 

[someperson555]

I think your problem is with the Bible then someperson555.

This goes way beyond “shedding ego” and has to do with GRACE.

Faith IS a grace. Hope is a grace. Charity is a GRACE.

We NEED Christ to live in us. Without Jesus living in us, “shedding ego” will not be efficacious to our salvation.

As you and I both quoted (yours below and mine here):

1st CORINTHIANS 13:13 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The reason WHY this “love” or charity" is greater is because it is laced with “grace”. It is not a natural action alone. Yes there are natural elements but they by themselves are not good enough.

Are you saying non catholics are cut off from this grace? You know the church does not teach total depravity. Nonetheless I do agree with you that we are all in need of God’s grace. But all im saying is that all human beings have access to and are in Gods graces. Wether its a fransiscan friar or a tree worshipping pagan. They all are capable of knowing right from wrong. Thats because God is constantly active in everyones lives.
So you cannot judge the fruitfulness of someones good works based on their religion or other surface things like that. Please tell me this because I want to know your opinion.
Whos good works are worth more: a religious person who gives money to a homeless person because he wants to gain glory and merits for himself ( I.e. wants something in return from God), or: an atheist who gives to a homeless person because he feels genuine empathy and is moved to help him knowing theres nothing in it for him.

The correct answer is the latter. Because fruitful good works can only arise out of genuine empathy and caring. True good works are when a person gives without thinking of himself. Without asking whats in it for him. This spiritual state is the goal of christianity.
The problem with many religious people is that they expect a rewRd from God either in this life or the afterlife. But you have to realize that those people are full of selfishness and pride. When they pray for someone or give to someone, the whole time they are thinking about themselves.
Thats very unchrist like. Ask yourself. Did God gain anything for dying for our sins?

 

[Cathoholic]

someperson555.

QUOTE:
Are you saying non catholics are cut off from this grace?

No.

You also said:

QUOTE:
You know the church does not teach total depravity.

You are right. I do know that. I am not saying we are totally depraved. I am saying what Jesus said: “Apart from Me, you can do nothing”.

You also said . . .

QUOTE:
But all im saying is that all human beings have access to . . . Gods graces.

Yep. I agree with that too.

And you said:

QUOTE:
But all im saying is that all human beings . . . and are in Gods graces.

Not in the sense of justifying grace. Not everyone in humanity is in a saving relationship with God. Some people have sadly freely chosen to reject this gift.

You asked:

QUOTE:
Whos good works are worth more: a religious person who gives money to a homeless person because he wants to gain glory and merits for himself ( I.e. wants something in return from God), or: an atheist who gives to a homeless person because he feels genuine empathy and is moved to help him knowing theres nothing in it for him.

This is a false dichotomy.

Neither of their actions will afford anything if they are not in a state of grace.

An atheist is not in a state of grace. Without faith, it is impossible to please God.

CCC 161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43

CCC 162a Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift . . .

HEBREWS 11:6 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Do you need MORE than a supernatural faith? Yes. You need supernatural hope and charity too.

Will a natural faith, hope, and charity save us?

No. Natural virtue is good, but not enough to save us.

For salvation we need supernatural virtue and by grace to persevere in those gifts. Supernatural faith, hope, and charity are these saving graces we receive through Baptism via the work of Jesus.

Is the atheist going to hell?

The atheist or anybody else who is not in a state of grace, “MAY” get into a saving relationship with God, they MAY get into a state of grace, they may attain salvation . . . IF . . . . through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience." (as CCC 847 and Lumen Gentium states).