Good Works

[06convert]

My Protestant friend. I feel sorry for the guy. He used to go with another friend to a Catholic church. But unfortunately I think he picked up on some bad inaccurate teachings, because he now thinks the Catholic church is wrong and somewhat brainwashing. Either the Priest at this particular church is way wrong, or my friend misunderstood, or he’s making it up. But regardless:

He said that during mass one day, during the homily, the Priest giving the homily proclaimed what you have to do to get to heaven and the first thing he said was, “do good works”. My friend said that good works will not get you to heaven.

My understanding is that good works themselves do not get you to heaven, but they keep you from doing evil, which in turn gives you the blessing and the ability to stay on the right path.

I haven’t studied anything on this subject yet. But what’s the real deal? Are good works necessary for salvation?

 

[tobinatorstark]

My Protestant friend. I feel sorry for the guy. He used to go with another friend to a Catholic church. But unfortunately I think he picked up on some bad inaccurate teachings, because he now thinks the Catholic church is wrong and somewhat brainwashing. Either the Priest at this particular church is way wrong, or my friend misunderstood, or he’s making it up. But regardless:

He said that during mass one day, during the homily, the Priest giving the homily proclaimed what you have to do to get to heaven and the first thing he said was, “do good works”. My friend said that good works will not get you to heaven.

My understanding is that good works themselves do not get you to heaven, but they keep you from doing evil, which in turn gives you the blessing and the ability to stay on the right path.

I haven’t studied anything on this subject yet. But what’s the real deal? Are good works necessary for salvation?

James chapter 2 emphasizes faith and works. Works without faith is dead. Faith without works is dead.

drbo.org/chapter/66002.htm

 

[Nita]

My Protestant friend. I feel sorry for the guy. He used to go with another friend to a Catholic church. But unfortunately I think he picked up on some bad inaccurate teachings, because he now thinks the Catholic church is wrong and somewhat brainwashing. Either the Priest at this particular church is way wrong, or my friend misunderstood, or he’s making it up. But regardless:

He said that during mass one day, during the homily, the Priest giving the homily proclaimed what you have to do to get to heaven and the first thing he said was, “do good works”. My friend said that good works will not get you to heaven.

My understanding is that good works themselves do not get you to heaven, but they keep you from doing evil, which in turn gives you the blessing and the ability to stay on the right path.

I haven’t studied anything on this subject yet. But what’s the real deal? Are good works necessary for salvation?

1) We are saved by grace.
Rom 3:24 they are justified by His grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Roma 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;

Eph 2:5 (God) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.

**2) We receive this grace **(the supernatural life of God/sanctifying grace) in Baptism.

Titus 3:4-7 …He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

**3) Having received this life of grace, we MUST allow it to work in us and cooperate with it by doing the good deeds God desires. This increases the God’s life of grace in our souls.**Matthew 25:15-28 (Parable of the talents. Talents=grace)
Matthew 25:31 to end (Final judgement)

4) We can also lose the life of grace (and thus, salvation) by committing serious sin and not repenting.
Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are plain; immorality, impurity, … I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
(Also 1 Cor 6:9-10; Eph 5:5; 2 Thess 1:8-9; Rev 22:15)

That’s a bare bones Catholic understanding of what is involved in a person’s being saved – where “saved” is understood as being allowed to enter heaven after death.​

 

[paul_c]

1) We are saved by grace.
Rom 3:24 they are justified by His grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Roma 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;

Eph 2:5 (God) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.

**2) We receive this grace **(the supernatural life of God/sanctifying grace) in Baptism.

Titus 3:4-7 …He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

**3) Having received this life of grace, we MUST allow it to work in us and cooperate with it by doing the good deeds God desires. This increases the God’s life of grace in our souls.**Matthew 25:15-28 (Parable of the talents. Talents=grace)
Matthew 25:31 to end (Final judgement)

4) We can also lose the life of grace (and thus, salvation) by committing serious sin and not repenting.
Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are plain; immorality, impurity, … I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
(Also 1 Cor 6:9-10; Eph 5:5; 2 Thess 1:8-9; Rev 22:15)

That’s a bare bones Catholic understanding of what is involved in a person’s being saved – where “saved” is understood as being allowed to enter heaven after death.
​

This is well said, so we need to be Baptized to get in the state of Grace and then we need demonstrate our faith through works to stay there. If we fall, we need to be reconciled through the sacrament of reconciliation.

Just as a point, depending where you are starting in this process, the priest’s point is correct. If you are talking to people already in the state of grace and who have faith in Jesus (which presumably would apply to most of those at mass), then what they need to do is to do Good works to stay there.

When Jesus talked to people of faith in the Gospel of Matthew, he too emphasizes the need to do good works…​

 

[foundthelight]

Jesus requires good works of us in addition to our faith.

Mat 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
Mat 25:33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
Mat 25:38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
Mat 25:39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’
Mat 25:41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’
Mat 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

No good works done in faith and obedience = no eternal life.

 

[06convert]

Wow, thanks guys. There it is, plain as day. When I talk to my friend he always talks about everything he believes in the Bible. It just amazes me how he can be so wrapped into scripture, but just ignore certain parts that don’t match his understanding.

 

[Christy_Beth]

In doing good works, we can’t just be going through the motions. I’ve seen too much apathy and indifference in the church. And that’s not just the Catholic church. People will say, “See, this is what I’m doing for God.” But it may not be what He is asking them to do.

Our “works” must be the doing of God’s will. One post mentioned the talents. The last one had been given just one to deal with. When the master came back, the one said, “See, I have saved the talent for you.” We bury our talent under the guise of “doing what’s right” but get nowhere with it. We must invest ourselves in the world around us doing God calls us to do. Nobody else can accurately say what talent you have.

We must step out in faith to meet the Lord, and we must step out in faith to do His will.

 

[Todd_Easton]

The good works a person does prior faith do not have a bearing on his salvation. So, if the priest was talking about good works, he was probably addressing his remarks to an audience of those whom he assumed were already baptized Christian believers, an audience of those already “saved,” if you will. In this he was simply following St. Paul’s advice to St. Timothy:17As for the rich in this world, charge them … to do good, to be rich in good deeds, liberal and generous, 19thus laying up for themselves a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life which is life indeed. (1 Timothy 6:17-19)

 

[foundthelight]

The good works a person does prior faith do not have a bearing on his salvation. So, if the priest was talking about good works, he was probably addressing his remarks to an audience of those whom he assumed were already baptized Christian believers, an audience of those already “saved,” if you will, in much the same way St. Paul advised St. Timothy:17As for the rich in this world, charge them … to do good, to be rich in good deeds, liberal and generous, 19thus laying up for themselves a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life which is life indeed. (1 Timothy 6:17-19)

Failure to do good works can cause one to lose their salvation. A faith that only sits in a pew and drops a dollar or two into the basket is a faith that is dead and condemning.

 

[paul_c]

The good works a person does prior faith do not have a bearing on his salvation. So, if the priest was talking about good works, he was probably addressing his remarks to an audience of those whom he assumed were already baptized Christian believers, an audience of those already “saved,” if you will. In this he was simply following St. Paul’s advice to St. Timothy:17As for the rich in this world, charge them … to do good, to be rich in good deeds, liberal and generous, 19thus laying up for themselves a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life which is life indeed. (1 Timothy 6:17-19)

I agree with this and I will give you a reason that good works without faith is of no benefit in salvation. Good works are part of the sanctification process after initial justification. Intent clearly matters. If you are doing works for the greater glory of God, your sanctification increases. If you are doing them for any other reason, including for self centered reasons (like praise) then it is not sanctifying you but condemning you. This is clearly discussed in the Sermon on the Mount:

Matthew 6: 1-2: "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father. When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

Matthew 6: 5: When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

Matthew 6: 15: When you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites. They neglect their appearance, so that they may appear to others to be fasting. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

 

[losh14]

He said that during mass one day, during the homily, the Priest giving the homily proclaimed what you have to do to get to heaven and the first thing he said was, “do good works”. My friend said that good works will not get you to heaven.

I’ve gone with non-Catholic friends to their churches and taken non-Catholic friends to Mass, and one thing I’ve noticed is a difference in mindset. Priests generally assume that those in attendance are baptized Catholics seeking Christ, and so speaks to the congregation as though the congregation were in a state of Grace.

Protestant and non-denom churches often treat their congregation as infants in faith who may just be hearing about Jesus for the first time today. There’s an assumption that at least some of the congregation are not yet saved, and so the entire congregation is often treated as potential converts. This radically changes the message.

Note the difference in content between Catholic and Evangelical radio stations (EWTN vs 3ABN). Catholic radio tends to discuss deeper matters of faith. Evangelicals seldom get away from the fundamental message, whether it is presented in Calvinist terms (ie, we’re all totally depraved, sin=death, Jesus is life, accept Jesus now) or other. Not that there’s a problem with the fundamentals, but even Paul noted that we must leave behind the milk for infants and eat the solid food of maturing faith.