Goodness

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dismas337

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I am new to CA so I apoligize if this has been asked already. Is goodness part of a created being’s essence? I am trying to reconcile how all creation was declared “good”, with the notion that satan (a created being) represents pure evil. Is there any goodness (as remote as it might be) in satan? Likewise, do those in hell retain any “goodness” or is goodness something that can be lost?
 
In one sense everything is good, because God said that after He created it. 🙂
 
God creatd Man and Woman in His image.

That is good.

It is only after the fall that man (and Creation) becomes corrupted and must suffer to know both good and evil.

God has never experienced evil and does not know it organically like human’s do since it could never touch God. But humanity in falling is doomed to know some dimension of evil intrinsically as well as good. When Jesus came he experienced the effects of evil externally - but internally it never touched him or changed His nature. Jesus came to restore humanity to a condition where it can escape the withering effects of experiencing evil through His own divine innocence.

James
 
I think you are saying that like human created beings, angelic creatic beings were also created good, but when they fell they experienced evil in their nature. So is it fair to say that any created being (human or angelic) can totally seperate itself from God (as I assume satan did)? I would guess that this is the state of mortal sin. But here is where I get confused again. How is it that a person in the state of seperation from God can respond to God’s grace and reconcile oneself in Confession? I would think that there has to be some goodness in that person in order to respond to the grace. And this leads me to believe that even a created being in the state of seperation from God has goodness.
 
dismas337 said:
I think you are saying that like human created beings, angelic creatic beings were also created good, but when they fell they experienced evil in their nature. So is it fair to say that any created being (human or angelic) can totally seperate itself from God (as I assume satan did)? I would guess that this is the state of mortal sin. But here is where I get confused again. How is it that a person in the state of seperation from God can respond to God’s grace and reconcile oneself in Confession? I would think that there has to be some goodness in that person in order to respond to the grace. And this leads me to believe that even a created being in the state of seperation from God has goodness.
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Good logic. The angels were created in place and being perfect intellectual beings were given in that instant of creation just a monment to decide for or against God. Angels can not change their minds since they having perfect knowledge they have nothing new to process - but pride still can effect them (those that fall do not want to serve God fully). It is a pure intellectual decision in the presence of their free will too.

Humans are not like that. Our nature requires us to reason before we decide for or against God and prove who we are. Our insights are imperfect. So God has given us a nominally a lifetime - for many of us about 75 or so years to decide for or against Him. Though of course some are taken sooner.

Even though we humans often sin and many fall into mortal sin God still floods us constantly with repentant grace to call us back to Him. Many are too stubborn or proud to respond to that grace and will not think to return to God until they suffer progressively worse calamities as their sins start to make their (and everyone around them) lives miserable and cause them many troubles. This is actually when God’s repentant grace is more effective since this person is broken down and pride ebbs and that grace takes hold and repentance is then possible. A repentant sinner is a delight to God. But that sinner must come back to God and get His grave sins forgiven sacramentally before He can be re-endowed with sanctifying grace and start healing up and growing spiritually again. Those that never fully repent or do not get their sins forgiven will fall back into their sins and misery repeatedly until they either fully repent and come back to God or until they die in a condition of impenitence. These go to hell.

If it were not for God’s grace all of us would be at each other’s throats - it would be total chaos. Only by grace are we civil and able to have any charity at all for our fellow man. Even those in mortal sin who might outwardly appear “reasonable” are only able to be “civil” by this universal repentant grace that God floods on Creation at large. But after a person dies the soul must stand on its own merits. Here I like to use a clay pot analogy. If someone’s soul suffers from grave sin - it is like a cracked vessel that can not contain grace - it flows out. So that soul dies at death. But the soul that is wholely intact is acquiring sanctifying and actual grace all its lift and actually increasing in capacity. At death this soul full of grace will rise like a shining star to heaven and be received into glory (perhaps with a stop in purgatory for final purification if it still has scars from sin).

Hope this helps,
James
 
dismas337 said:
I am new to CA so I apoligize if this has been asked already. Is goodness part of a created being’s essence? I am trying to reconcile how all creation was declared “good”, with the notion that satan (a created being) represents pure evil. Is there any goodness (as remote as it might be) in satan? Likewise, do those in hell retain any “goodness” or is goodness something that can be lost?
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According to Aquinas, all things are good at least insofar as they exist, since they share at least that characteristic of God. This includes Satan and those in Hell. It is “ontologically” a type of goodness that something exist, even if that something is completely given over “functionally” to evil.

Degrees of goodness can definitely be lost. However, those in Hell cannot lose at least the bare minimum goodness of continued existence. The fact that God maintains people in existence, even in Hell, is a manifestation of God’s love. At the very minimum, at least in their existence they touch God.
 
dismas337 said:
I am new to CA so I apoligize if this has been asked already. Is goodness part of a created being’s essence? I am trying to reconcile how all creation was declared “good”, with the notion that satan (a created being) represents pure evil. Is there any goodness (as remote as it might be) in satan? Likewise, do those in hell retain any “goodness” or is goodness something that can be lost?
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If you’re up for it, try tackling St. Anselm’s Monologion. 😉

The short answer is that, God contains essence, existence, and goodness in their fullness. All created beings share in these attributes to a greater or lesser degree. Cpayne stated it well that the devil and the fallen angels share in God’s goodness to the extent that they exist (and existence is a good).
 
cpayne said:
The fact that God maintains people in existence, even in Hell, is a manifestation of God’s love. At the very minimum, at least in their existence they touch God.
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Your response was helpful - thanks. However, I am struggling with your last two lines. Although it helps make sense of the idea of goodness as it relates to created beings, just seeing the words “hell, is a manifestation of God’s love” causes my brain to stall. I will ponder some more.
 
If you can find it somewhere online, one of the most helpful essays I’ve ever found in this regard is “Dante’s Hell, Aquinas’s Theory of Morality, and the Love of God,” by Catholic philosopher Eleonore Stump.

Also helpful is Scott MacDonald’s essay “Being and Goodness.”

Remember the sign above the entrance to Hell in Dante’s “Inferno”? It reads in part “Divine love made me.”
 
dismas337 said:
I am new to CA so I apoligize if this has been asked already. Is goodness part of a created being’s essence? I am trying to reconcile how all creation was declared “good”, with the notion that satan (a created being) represents pure evil. Is there any goodness (as remote as it might be) in satan? Likewise, do those in hell retain any “goodness” or is goodness something that can be lost?
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First, Christianity is a philosophical religion; that is, the more you study philosophy, the deeper you’ll know the Catholic Faith. The Catholic Church is very willing to help people understand her origins and her faith. So you can say we’re a philosophical religion.

Second, “goodness” means something beneficial; as such, there is much that can be called good: life, love, beauty, truth, honor, joy, humor, power, sex - indeed, the whole of creation is good, very good. Men and women are the consummation of goodness, that is, the consummation of God’s work, for they are body-spirit beings and have been created in the Image and Likeness of God.

Satan used to be an angel, but he rebelled against God and became a devil. Because he was the highest angel created by God, he is now the leader of all the devils, and because he is so opposed to God and so filled with malice against men, he is said to be evil personified. Satan is good in that he has existence, but this only means he exists: nonetheless, because he exists, he is a creature of God, and as such, we shouldn’t try to offend him, but rather, say “May God rebuke you!”

The damned are good in that they exist, like Satan, but, also like Satan, they are now evil. They wish for us to join them in hell, that we too might suffer for eternity. But God wills us to be in Heaven and all we have to do is love Him and love one another and follow the golden rule to do His Will.
 
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