Goofed up First Communion Policy

[SursumCor]

My Parrish has recently been taken over by a liturgical nazi, who calls himself the Pastor.

He has decided there will no longer be a first communion mass for children, but some Sunday in May the child can make his/her first communion with their family at any mass of their choice. In other words its nothing special, just another breakfast. This somehow in his mind promotes community. However eveyone to this date has had a special day when they made theor first communion so by eliminating first communion he is effectively forcing a seperation in that these children will have a totally different experience of first communion which is completely different from the community.

I am going to become a complete pain in the *** on this matter but to do that I need to gather my ammo. So to the issue, what does the documents (RCIC or what ever is the controlling document) regarding the reception of first communion say about the sacramental celebration for children?

I tried to search this online but have had no success finding the document.

Thanks

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Well, your pastor is following the current trend in the Church. There is no documentation that specifies how first communion is to be done. There is also no such thing as the RCIC – there’s only the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA). In the Church there are infants (those under 7) and adults (those seven and older). Those over seven are considered minors if they are below the legal age of the community in which they reside (for the United States this is 18).

You might want to read this article on First Communion. I think you are fighting a losing battle.

Deacon Ed

 

[Franciscum]

SursumCor:

My Parrish has recently been taken over by a liturgical nazi, who calls himself the Pastor.

He has decided there will no longer be a first communion mass for children, but some Sunday in May the child can make his/her first communion with their family at any mass of their choice. In other words its nothing special, just another breakfast. This somehow in his mind promotes community. However eveyone to this date has had a special day when they made theor first communion so by eliminating first communion he is effectively forcing a seperation in that these children will have a totally different experience of first communion which is completely different from the community.

I am going to become a complete pain in the *** on this matter but to do that I need to gather my ammo. So to the issue, what does the documents (RCIC or what ever is the controlling document) regarding the reception of first communion say about the sacramental celebration for children?

I tried to search this online but have had no success finding the document.

Thanks

It all depends on your bishop, and the amount of pressure exerted by the parents.

We had a religious brother who was once in charge of religious education at my parish. He decreed that no one would go to the sacrament of penance prior to first communion, a huge no-no.

The much deserved outrage from parents ended-up pushing him out of our parish, thanks be to God.

Tradition (with a small “t”) suggests there should be a very special Mass for first communicants. See what your bishop thinks…

 

[1ke]

SursumCor:

My Parrish has recently been taken over by a liturgical nazi, who calls himself the Pastor.

Please remember that the Bishop has appointed him as the Shepherd, and he therefore legitimately exercises his authority in your parish.

SursumCor:

He has decided there will no longer be a first communion mass for children, but some Sunday in May the child can make his/her first communion with their family at any mass of their choice. In other words its nothing special, just another breakfast. This somehow in his mind promotes community. However eveyone to this date has had a special day when they made theor first communion so by eliminating first communion he is effectively forcing a seperation in that these children will have a totally different experience of first communion which is completely different from the community.

Clearly you are upset about this. The Sacraments are supposed to be celebrated in community. Many times when parishes carve out “special” masses at which Baptisms, First Communions, etc, are done it is usually for pratical reasons such as facility constraints, etc. Ideally the Sacraments should be within the context of the regular Liturgy.

Obviously you are taking the Pastor’s desire to integrate the Sacraments more fully into the liturgy as some kind of slight. I don’t believe that eliminating the separate mass in any way says that first communion is “nothing special”. I believe that is your perception. Please stop and ask why the idea of a “special day” is so all-consuming to you that you are clearly overlooking the fact that the Sacrament is in no way different whether received in a separate mass or the regular Sunday mass. It is really the preparation and emphasis that the PARENTS put on the day that make it special for the child, not whether the kid gets to parade with other kids. Really, this isn’t a pageant, it’s a Sacrament.

SursumCor:

I am going to become a complete pain in the *** on this matter

Why is the idea of celebrating the Sacrament in the community so repulsive to you? What message are you sending to your children?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

SursumCor:

My Parrish has recently been taken over by a liturgical nazi, who calls himself the Pastor.

He has decided there will no longer be a first communion mass for children, but some Sunday in May the child can make his/her first communion with their family at any mass of their choice. I am going to become a complete pain in the *** on this matter but to do that I need to gather my ammo. So to the issue, what does the documents (RCIC or what ever is the controlling document) regarding the reception of first communion say about the sacramental celebration for children?

I tried to search this online but have had no success finding the document.

Thanks

Because there isn’t one. The controlling document is essentially Canon Law. Which simply says that the preparation for and the opportunity for first reconciliation must preceed the reception of First Communion. That the child when properly prepared. Which IS the primary responsibility of the parents and Godparents. The child should be addmitted to the reception of first Holy Communion.

 

[bear06]

We attend a parish with no other children. When we do our First Communion we just pick a date (as we do with our first confessions which, of course, come before the First Communion). It’s obvious what we are doing when our girls show up in a white dress and veil. While it’s not a formal parish activity, the “community” still does celebrate with us. There is no formal party, etc. We just make our First Communion and then we have a party back at our house with friends and family. I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. The fanfare is not really that important and it’s provided by our family and friends and the well-wishers of the parish. What’s really important is that our child gets to receive Our Lord!

 

[rayne89]

bear06:

We attend a parish with no other children. When we do our First Communion we just pick a date (as we do with our first confessions which, of course, come before the First Communion). It’s obvious what we are doing when our girls show up in a white dress and veil. While it’s not a formal parish activity, the “community” still does celebrate with us. There is no formal party, etc. We just make our First Communion and then we have a party back at our house with friends and family. I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. The fanfare is not really that important and it’s provided by our family and friends and the well-wishers of the parish. What’s really important is that our child gets to receive Our Lord!

There are no other children in your parish, did I read that right?

 

[Franciscum]

1ke:

Please remember that the Bishop has appointed him as the Shepherd, and he therefore legitimately exercises his authority in your parish.

Clearly you are upset about this. The Sacraments are supposed to be celebrated in community. Many times when parishes carve out “special” masses at which Baptisms, First Communions, etc, are done it is usually for pratical reasons such as facility constraints, etc. Ideally the Sacraments should be within the context of the regular Liturgy.

Obviously you are taking the Pastor’s desire to integrate the Sacraments more fully into the liturgy as some kind of slight. I don’t believe that eliminating the separate mass in any way says that first communion is “nothing special”. I believe that is your perception. Please stop and ask why the idea of a “special day” is so all-consuming to you that you are clearly overlooking the fact that the Sacrament is in no way different whether received in a separate mass or the regular Sunday mass. It is really the preparation and emphasis that the PARENTS put on the day that make it special for the child, not whether the kid gets to parade with other kids. Really, this isn’t a pageant, it’s a Sacrament.

Why is the idea of celebrating the Sacrament in the community so repulsive to you? What message are you sending to your children?

I gotta say that I found your retort quite odd.

First, who is suggesting that the first communion Mass is not going to be taking place “in community?” Certainly not the person who posted the query.

Second, just what is a “regular liturgy?” Is there anything better or even “more regular” about a regularly scheduled Mass?

Next, what do you mean by “integrate” the Sacraments “more fully” into the liturgy? Do you mean bury the fact that kids are receiving holy communion for the first time?

Finally, see my question #1 again.

At my parish we have several planned Masses each Sunday. When something special like first communion comes around, one of the Masses is chosen to be the “special” Mass for the specific event.

Many times it’s far more solemn – choir, fresh flowers, etc. It also gives those going through first communion a chance to go through together. Mutual support can be very important.

The language you used smacks so very strongly of the obfuscating words so commonly employed by self-appointed “liturgists” today that I am wondering if you too are a “liturgist” perchance?

 

[Deacon2006]

Pastors such as these often neglect other public milestones in a Christian’s life.

They disgust me too.

This is a joyous paschal banquet, one that raises cheers from the whole communion of saints. The mass is a celebration, the Church focus these celebrations for a myriad of faith reasons, funerals, feast days, memorials, confirmations. etc.

To suggest that this is a private affair between child and parent denies virtually everything we know about communion. Of all the great themes that can be celebrated with the mass, this is one of the most important because the initiation of new communicates is the great mission of the Church. It is the reason why the mass is called the mass.

The sacrament is one of initiation and as such the whole church is expected to stop and welcome them into this next stage of their Christian initiation. This nonsense of downplaying the source and summit of a Christian’s life is profane.

I bet this pastor has probably also has not done anything to help these children prepare for their first confession prior to their first communion as well. Usually this type of sacramental indifference is the pinnacle of a whole host of other abuses.

Find a new parish before this man ruins your child’s spiritual life.

God Bless

 

[asquared]

first of all if by Pastor you mean the priest appointed by your bishop, you are either obedient to Church authority or you are not. Unless your pastor is introducing actual abuses, grave disobedience to the rubrics and GIRM, he is guilty of nothing you accuse him of. Please do not equate the pastor’s legitimate role as liturgist in the parish (which only he, not a lay person, can fill) with the horrid abuses of national socialism.

second, there is no such thing as RCIC. The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is adapted for children, but it refers to preparing unbaptized children who have reached the age of reason for full initiation into the Catholic Church. Each diocese has norms for preparing children to celebrate first holy communion, as well as the general guidelines that apply to the entire Church. Children must have reached the age of reason, be baptized, be adequately catechised and prepared, by their parents with the assistance of the parish, directed by the pastor. They must understand the difference between holy communion and ordinary bread and wine, realize that Jesus is truly present in the consecrated species, and be able to approach the sacrament reverently. They must be prepared for and given the opportunity for confession before first communion.
the documents you have been searching for that give these regulations are called canon law

Once these conditions have been met, the date, time and circumstances are up to the pastor. There is no law and never has been that every second grader in the parish must receive communion at the same Mass on the same day. That is a local custom. Ideally, the sacraments of initiation, baptism, confirmation and first communion should be celebrated in the context of the Mass, as far as pastoral considerations permit. It makes no sense at all for first communion to be administered outside of Mass, although that does happen occassionally.

The children should be presented by their parents and families and whether that happens with one or several first communicants at the same time is immaterial as far as the regulations are concerned.

I am at a loss to understand why you think that the child attending Sunday Mass with his family and receiving first holy communion with them somehow withdraws him for participation in the community. The community is the parish, not his catechism class. The second graders are not inhabiting some alternative universe in which they alone approach the Eucharist. The unity Christ makes real in this sacrament is within the entire parish, diocese and universal church.

this change was implemented in our former parish about 10 years ago, because the small size of the church, and growing size of communion class made it impossible to accommodate all the children and their families at one time. The uproar of parents making ***** of themselves was deafening, you would have thought we were converting the children to buddhism or teaching them goddess worship.

There is absolutely no way the each child in the first communion class is going to “have the same experience of first communion”. That experience is individual and depends on the child’s nature, disposition, preparation and many other factors. The date and time of the celebration, color of dress, songs and flowers used and all the peripherals are irrelevant to the spiritual experience of communion with Jesus.

Before you go off the deep end, and especially before you stop detracting the lawful actions of your pastor to others, you may want to pray and meditate on the nature and meaning of the Eucharist, preferably in the presence of Jesus himself.

 

[bear06]

rayne89:

There are no other children in your parish, did I read that right?

Actually, there’s one new kid who did his First Communion just the way we did.

We go to mass in a church right outside a retirement community. The average age was 79 when we arrived 12 years ago. We were the only registered, regular attendees with children until very recently. Most of the younger set say they want to go to a Church with life but we love our parish and our children have many adopted grandparents. We’d like to attend the Church we were married in on a more regular basis but we have our own little apostolate where we are. You can’t believe how many people tell us they haven’t seen their grandchildren in years. They love our kids and it’s something we can’t deprive them of right now. We started going there for the orthodoxy.

 

[Franciscum]

Deacon2006:

Pastors such as these often neglect other public milestones in a Christian’s life.

They disgust me too.

This is a joyous paschal banquet, one that raises cheers from the whole communion of saints. The mass is a celebration, the Church focus these celebrations for a myriad of faith reasons, funerals, feast days, memorials, confirmations. etc.

To suggest that this is a private affair between child and parent denies virtually everything we know about communion. Of all the great themes that can be celebrated with the mass, this is one of the most important because the initiation of new communicates is the great mission of the Church. It is the reason why the mass is called the mass.

The sacrament is one of initiation and as such the whole church is expected to stop and welcome them into this next stage of their Christian initiation. This nonsense of downplaying the source and summit of a Christian’s life is profane.

I bet this pastor has probably also has not done anything to help these children prepare for their first confession prior to their first communion as well. Usually this type of sacramental indifference is the pinnacle of a whole host of other abuses.

Find a new parish before this man ruins your child’s spiritual life.

God Bless

Sounds like some sage advice.

 

[Ray_Marshall]

SursumCor:

My Parrish has recently been taken over by a liturgical nazi, who calls himself the Pastor.

Old Joke coming:
Q. What’s the difference between a terrorist and a liturgist?
A. You can negotiate with a terrorist!

I’m absolutely amazed at the number who seem to be coming down on the side of the pastor on this one, saying that it is better for the First Communicant to do it with her family in the “Community.”

Well, I don’t know about you folks, but just about every Mass I have attended hasn’t been much of a celebration of “Community.” It has been me, worshiping my God. And more times than I care to admit, I haven’t been very attentive to that purpose.

It’s immaterial as to whether or not the format for First Communion is formally determined by Canon Law or the GIRM.

The rite/tradition of First Communion, whereby a group of children, all dolled up in white receive as a group, as the complete center of attention for the entire congregation, is far more a demonstration of “Community” than hundreds or maybe thousands of folks slowly inching up an aisle, trying not to step on the heel of the eight year old person in front of them and checking out the others in line to see if they know anybody.

The First Communion as a group is probably the first major event in a child’s life, where they become aware that they are not just a member of a family, but that they have been accepted into God’s Church as an equal to all of the other adults present.

Don’t deny them that.

 

[1ke]

No, I am not a liturgist. Just a plain old parishioner.

By integrating, yes I do mean into the regularly scheduled Sunday masses. Most times, in my experience, when a parish is large they add a Mass at something like 2 p.m. and that is the “First Communion” mass-- which only the parents and kids go to. That, I disagree with.

I still disagree that there has to be a designated Mass at which all the FC kids attend and parade in order for it to be “special”. What about kids that make their FC during the regularly scheduled Mass b/c they can’t attend the official FC mass. Does that mean their day is NOT special? That’s silly.

Perhaps there are circumstances you are unaware of that led Father to make his decision. Maybe there were scheduling conflicts, maybe he believes like I do that a parade is not necessary and instead it makes more sense to have them receive with their families in a regularly scheduled Mass. Maybe it’s just his preference-- which is sufficient reason BTW.

Instead of calling him a Nazi, why don’t you just ask him?

 

[katherine2]

I think the policy your pastor outlines if prefectly sound and proper. Given that, I do believe any such change should take place in consultation with the laity, partiuclarly the parents.

However, I find misguided some of the debate here about obedience to the pastor and “liturgical nazis”

By your own post you admitted that both options were allowed. Your preference did not attract even the minimal number needed. In other words this is not a matter iof a unilaterial decision, but the great consensus of the people of your parish.

I feel sorry if you think your child is missing out on something, buty I think your outrage is misdirected.

 

[Patrick2340]

As I understand the argument, children should receive first communion at the regularly scheduled Sunday Mass in order to foster the idea of community. While I like the concept of a separate special Mass for this event, I have seen Masses where First Communicants are allowed to approach their First Holy Communion by themselves, and, once they’ve received Our Lord, the remainder of the congregation rises to receive.

Of course, this same argument can be applied to wedding celebrations. Shouldn’t two people who are to be wed do so in front of the entire congregation of their parish in order to foster community?

 

[Franciscum]

Ray Marshall:

Old Joke coming:
Q. What’s the difference between a terrorist and a liturgist?
A. You can negotiate with a terrorist!

I’m absolutely amazed at the number who seem to be coming down on the side of the pastor on this one, saying that it is better for the First Communicant to do it with her family in the “Community.”

Well, I don’t know about you folks, but just about every Mass I have attended hasn’t been much of a celebration of “Community.” It has been me, worshiping my God. And more times than I care to admit, I haven’t been very attentive to that purpose.

It’s immaterial as to whether or not the format for First Communion is formally determined by Canon Law or the GIRM.

The rite/tradition of First Communion, whereby a group of children, all dolled up in white receive as a group, as the complete center of attention for the entire congregation, is far more a demonstration of “Community” than hundreds or maybe thousands of folks slowly inching up an aisle, trying not to step on the heel of the eight year old person in front of them and checking out the others in line to see if they know anybody.

The First Communion as a group is probably the first major event in a child’s life, where they become aware that they are not just a member of a family, but that they have been accepted into God’s Church as an equal to all of the other adults present.

Don’t deny them that.

Extremely well said.

While I don’t think the pastor in question is a “liturgical nazi”, I would guess he is a “spirit of Vatican II” type, or just plain lazy.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Franciscum:

Extremely well said.

While I don’t think the pastor in question is a “liturgical nazi”, I would guess he is a “spirit of Vatican II” type, or just plain lazy.

I disagree with this. I think the pastor is correct.

The reception of First Eucharist should be done when the child is ready and should be done in context of a Sunday Mass. No special Mass, no Mass where a bunch recieve First Eucharist, unless they are all ready at the same time.

I believe that this is a return to the way it was. This is how it is done in the Byzantine Churches. The child is baptized and chrismated just before the beginning of the Divine Liturgy and then at the time of communion in the Divine Liturgy the child is brought forward first with their family.

I think makeing a big deal out of it and having a special First Eucharist Mass removes the emphasis of the Mass from the Community to the individuals recieving.

As for this one…

Franciscum:

First, who is suggesting that the first communion Mass is not going to be taking place “in community?”

Some people might not feel welcome when the Mass is listed as a First Eucharist Mass and they do not have a child recieving for the first time.

The First Eucharist Mass is a custom in some places. Here I have not see this, they just recieve at a Sunday Mass the same way that bear06 described.

No where in the Church documents is this mentioned, it is a custom of some places. Seems some thing customs are more important than Church Teaching and Obedience.

 

[a_pilgrim]

bear06:

When we do our First Communion we just pick a date (as we do with our first confessions which, of course, come before the First Communion)…

While it’s true that the Roman Catholic Church administers the Sacrament of Reconciliation prior to the reception of First Holy Communion, we must be careful to remain aware that this progression of sacraments is not a universal mandate throughout the entire Catholic Church. As David (ByzCath) pointed out in post #18, the Byzantine Catholic Church administers all three Holy Mysteries (Sacraments) of Initiation - Baptism, Chrismation (“Confirmation” in the Roman Catholic Church) and Holy Communion - to infants during the same ceremony. The Eastern Catholic belief is that once an individual, infant or adult, is initiated through baptism into the Church, he or she should rightfully be allowed immediate access to all those sacred graces present in the other two Holy Mysteries of Initiation, thus completing the fullness of sacramental membership within the Church for that soul.

a pilgrim

 

[Shiann]

I am also going to fall on the side of the pastor in this instance.

My daughter had the First Confession and First Communion sacraments last year. It was a lovely day but there was WAY too much emphasis on the pagentry of it all… and I don’t mean strictly clothing pagentry either!

We had to go to a REHEARSAL so the kids would know where to stand and how to process, practice their songs, etc. Then the parents were advised that they were allowed ONE PEW in our parish for my daughters family and friends because there were too many kids getting their sacrament that day- and they needed to ration seating.

I wanted to know how this forwarded the feeling of community when I had to let my extended family know that some wouldn’t be able to attend Mass with us for this reason. I couldn’t imagine the problems this caused in some of the larger families (with many children). Many of these families take up two pews with mom, dad and kids!

I think less emphasis on the “pagentry” and more on the MEANING of the Mass is perfectly appropriate and lovely.