Gospel altered?

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johnstown_johnn

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The Gospel reading a few Sundays ago (read from the missalette and ostensibly extracted from the New American Bible) was very disturbing because of the addition of a single word.

The word, “CHOSEN.”

The Gospel reffered to is Luke, Ch. 9: v. 34 -35).

The "missalete: quotes that passage that a Voice from a cloud says, “This is My CHOSEN son , hear him.”

Jesus was “CHOSEN?” From a pool of potentials?

St. John’s gospel clearly states, “…the Word was with God and the Word was God…”

The Douray-Rheims version has it,
Luke (9: 34-35) "…This is My beloved Son; hear Him.’

Matthew, (Ch. 17: 5 v.) quotes, “…This is my beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased, hear ye Him.”

Mark (Ch. 9: v.16) “This is My most beloved Son; hear ye Him.”

So, where did the “CHOSEN” come from? Why is it added?

“CHOSEN” erodes the very essence of (albeit subliminally), " God from God, Light from Light… True God from True God."

Is something afoot?
 
The translation of the Bible used in the lectionary is the NAB, with some alterations by the USCCB. Here’s Luke 9:35 in the NAB. " Then from the cloud came a voice that said, ‘This is my chosen Son; listen to him.’"

Other translations also render the verse in a similar manner. From the RSV, Luke 9:35 reads “And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!’”

The Douay-Rheims is not used for the Lectionary of the Mass in the United States, so verses will be different when you hear them in Mass and when you read them in a Douay-Rheims Version Bible. Nothing was altered by your priest.
 
So, the Douay-Rheims is still correct?

The NAB is correct?

What impact does the word “Chosen” have? Does it clarify who Jesus is or is it nebulous? Does it elevate Him more?

Merriam-Webster. CHOSEN: selected or or marked for special favor or privilege.

BELOVED: dearly loved.

Does the NAB preempt Douay-Rheims? If so, should I discard my family Douay-Rheims?

Chosen = selected. Jesus is the Word made flesh; He is Not “chosen.”
 
johnstown_johnn said:
So, the Douay-Rheims is still correct?

The NAB is correct?

What impact does the word “Chosen” have? Does it clarify who Jesus is or is it nebulous? Does it elevate Him more?

Merriam-Webster. CHOSEN: selected or or marked for special favor or privilege.

BELOVED: dearly loved.

Does the NAB preempt Douay-Rheims? If so, should I discard my family Douay-Rheims?

Chosen = selected. Jesus is the Word made flesh; He is Not “chosen.”
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I think a valid question to ask ourselve at this point is: Can they both be correct? Is each a different nuance of the meaning of the original language?
 
johnstown_johnn said:
So, the Douay-Rheims is still correct?
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Yes, it is just not used for Mass.
The NAB is correct?
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It is approved by the USCCB.
Does the NAB preempt Douay-Rheims? If so, should I discard my family Douay-Rheims?
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No, it is still an approved Bible, just not as modern. In many cases it may be better. Check out some of the threads in Sacred Scripture about Bible versions. By all means keep your Douay-Rheims. Just because it isn’t used for Mass does not make it obsolete.
 
Here is the transliterated Greek from the relevant line of Luke 9:35

Hoútós estin ho Huiós mou ho eklelegménos

Literally, “This is the Son of me the chosen”

That last word is the perfect passive participle of eklego, which literally means “to call out,” and by extension “to choose.”

The translation is accurate.

DaveBj
 
Hi Johnstown,

Any title given to Jesus must be viewed in a messianic context. The “Chosen” or “Elect” is David, the King that God chose among all his brothers, as well as his successors. David prefigures the Messiah. “Chosen” or Elect is a Messianic title. Compare to Luke 23,35 :
35 The people stood by and watched; the rulers, meanwhile, sneered at him and said, "He saved others, let him save himself if he is the chosen one, the Messiah of God.
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Verbum
 
In A Cathlic Commentary on Holy Scripture, edited by Bernard Orchard, published by Thomas Nelson & Sons, 1953, in reference to Luke 9:35 it says:
Manuscript authority is divided between ‘beloved’ (only) Greek: agapetos and ‘elect’ Greek: eklelegmenos. The former looks like a borrowing from Mark and Matthew or from 3:22. ‘Elect’ is a traditional Jewish Messianic title; cf. 23:35 and Isaiah 42:1.
It would appear that the better ancient manuscripts available to Bible scholars today have ‘elect’ or ‘chosen’ in Luke 9:35, instead of ‘beloved.’
 
johnstown_johnn said:
So,
Does the NAB preempt Douay-Rheims? If so, should I discard my family Douay-Rheims?

."
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the NAB with specific revisions for the lectionary, is the ONLY translation currently approved for use at Mass in the US. no, you do not have do discard other translations, but you do have to submit to the authority of the bishops. You chose to read only one meaning or connotation into this word, there are others, of you chose to interpret this word in this context in your own way, so be it, but it does not give you leave to write your own lectionary.
 
The word CHOSEN by no means excludes Jesus’ divinity, but functions as the reminder of His Messianic mission of salvation on earth. Likewise, John the Evangelist repetitively applies the verb SEND to Jesus’ earthly mission! We should also reconsider Simeon’s prophecy in this respect:

Luke 2: 34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall and for the resurrection of many in Israel and for a sign which shall be contradicted.

God the Father sets/sends/chooses Jesus for the salvation of mankind in the sense that He is greater than all the prophets as the divine King and Messiah.

Peace ❤️
 
puzzleannie said:
the NAB with specific revisions for the lectionary, is the ONLY translation currently approved for use at Mass in the US. no, you do not have do discard other translations, but you do have to submit to the authority of the bishops. You chose to read only one meaning or connotation into this word, there are others, of you chose to interpret this word in this context in your own way, so be it, but it does not give you leave to write your own lectionary.
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Who is writing his own lectionary? Me?

I am reading from the Douay-Rheims bible NOT writing my own lectionary. Am I in conflict with the Church? I don’t think so! Submit to authority of bishops? Only the Pope is infallible…bishops are not.

A bishop here is quoted, “It is permissible to admit homosexuals into seminary as long as they are celibate.”

Do I submit to that nonsense? Should I accept this as infallible?
 
Luk 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud; saying: This is my beloved son. Hear him. (DRB)
 
I don’t know about the Nova Vulgata, but the Biblia Sacra juxta Vulgatam Clementinam has for Luke 9.35:
Et vox facta est de nube, dicens : Hic est Filius meus dilectus, ipsum audite.
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The word in question is “dilectus” which can be rendered in english to mean:

Noun:
levy/draft/conscription; enlistment, recruiting, mustering; levy/men enrolled; selection/choosing; choice (between posibilities), discrimination/distinction;

Adjective:
beloved, loved, dear;

Verb
select, pick, single out; love, value, esteem; approve, aspire to, appreciate;

Latin word meanings taken from users.erols.com/whitaker/words.htm

Respectfully,
Brian
 
davidv said:
I think a valid question to ask ourselve at this point is: Can they both be correct?
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If Matthew and Mark use the word “beloved” and Luke uses the word “chosen”, then, since they were each inspired by the Holy Spirit, it would be fair to conclude that both words were used at the Transfiguration of Jesus and that Matthew and Mark chose, for some good reason, to mention only the word “beloved” and Luke chose, for some good reason, to mention only the word “chosen.”
 
Todd_Easton said:
If Matthew and Mark use the word “beloved” and Luke uses the word “chosen”, then, since they were each inspired by the Holy Spirit, it would be fair to conclude that both words were used at the Transfiguration of Jesus and that Matthew and Mark chose, for some good reason, to mention only the word “beloved” and Luke chose, for some good reason, to mention only the word “chosen.”
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The NAB has “Chosen” (Luke 9) but not Douray-Rheims.

“Chosen” waters down the Christ’s divinity to a sort of “selection” from a pool of other men. The Apostle’s Creed has Jesus and the Father as ONE; the same essence (God from God…ONE in Being with the Father). “Chosen” is a poor choice of a word in the NAB.

“Beloved” is plainly used here as an adjective and NOT a noun.

NAB erred on this one.
 
Angelos said:
The word CHOSEN by no means excludes Jesus’ divinity, but functions as the reminder of His Messianic mission of salvation on earth. Likewise, John the Evangelist repetitively applies the verb SEND to Jesus’ earthly mission! We should also reconsider Simeon’s prophecy in this respect:

Luke 2: 34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall and for the resurrection of many in Israel and for a sign which shall be contradicted.

God the Father sets/sends/chooses Jesus for the salvation of mankind in the sense that He is greater than all the prophets as the divine King and Messiah.

I accept “sends.” No problemo with that.

Peace ❤️
Click to expand...
 
Verbum said:
Hi Johnstown,

Any title given to Jesus must be viewed in a messianic context. The “Chosen” or “Elect” is David, the King that God chose among all his brothers, as well as his successors. David prefigures the Messiah. “Chosen” or Elect is a Messianic title. Compare to Luke 23,35 :

Verbum
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Let us not lose sight of who is being quoted here at Calvary. The word “CHOSE” is being spoke from the rejectors of Christ. They never grasped that the Mesaiah would be “Of God and From God.” Unlike King David who was “chosen” and who has historically sinned; Jesus was SINLESS because He is part God; part man born of a SINLESS mother. Every other figure in the bible were men who have transgressed with no exceptions because we are tainted with Original Sin from each of our beginnings.

The insertion of the word “CHOSEN” in the NAB is erroneus. This is the New AMERICAN Bible and has made many changes probably in the spirit of ecumenism. The truth CANNOT be compromised. Jesus IS who He IS…the very essence of God. He is PERFECT in every way and yet,at the same time, He is approachable because He took on flesh, blood and bone…just like us.

If He was “chosen” then who were the other “candidates?”
 
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