Gospel Of John

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The gospel of John is the only one to state that Jesus was crucified on the Jewish passover. Does the Church define whether or not Jesus was in fact crucified on the passover?

I would appreciate if you guys cited your responses. Thanks for your time. 🙂
 
Not really. The other Gospels mention Passover as well, though maybe not in the same way John does.

I would then say that yes, the Church believes Jesus was crucified on Passover.
 
I think the passover starts at sundown. He was removed from the cross before passover.
 
coolduude said:
Not really. The other Gospels mention Passover as well, though maybe not in the same way John does.

I would then say that yes, the Church believes Jesus was crucified on Passover.
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Upon looking through the gospels, I find that only John mentions that he was crucified on the passover.:confused:
 
John sets the execution at the time of the sacrifice of the lambs in the Temple. The synoptics’ descriptions of the Last Supper may be interpreted as saying that He must have been executed after the Passover - although I believe you can make the case that He deliberately and to the surprise of the apostles celebrated the seder with them early - so that at the time when they would have been eating unleavened bread topped with sacrificial lamb, they were instead holding only bread, and He said to them “take and eat - this is my Body which will be given up for you.”

References to the Day of Preparation for the Sabbath and the Day of Preparation for the Passover further complicate the discussion.

To your specific question
Does the Church define whether or not Jesus was in fact crucified on the passover?
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as far as I know, the answer is no. The Church follows St. Paul in describing Jesus as our paschal lamb, but does not define the date on the Hebrew calendar that the crucifixion occurred, nor has she felt it necessary to definitively “resolve” the apparent discrepancy.
 
things get confusing here.

The Passover might have been a particular night and day, as dictated in the Torah, but for practical reasons, the celebration was spread out, to accomodate all the visitors to Jerusalem. And, I recall something about the feast being celebrated either a month early or later, for this accomodation.

As to the remark about about NOT eating unleavened bread, that’s a problem, isn’t it? Wasn’t the feast of unleavened bread celebrated for a week?

And, how could you celebrate the Passover seder with unleavened bread? The whole ritual was a recollection of the original passover, where they were supposed to be dressed with their loins girded ready for a journey, with no time to wait for leavened bread to rise, no? HOw could they rationalize that omission? Leavened bread doesn’t seem congruous with the passover seder, like eating a chicken instead of a lamb.

I tend to non-academically NOT dismiss the synoptics. I don’t think we’re touching bottom of the facts in this situation.
 
Crumpy said:
As to the remark about about NOT eating unleavened bread, that’s a problem, isn’t it? Wasn’t the feast of unleavened bread celebrated for a week?

And, how could you celebrate the Passover seder with unleavened bread? The whole ritual was a recollection of the original passover, where they were supposed to be dressed with their loins girded ready for a journey, with no time to wait for leavened bread to rise, no? HOw could they rationalize that omission? Leavened bread doesn’t seem congruous with the passover seder, like eating a chicken instead of a lamb.
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Did I miss a statement about leavened bread? I don’t recall this being part of the conversation?
I tend to non-academically NOT dismiss the synoptics. I don’t think we’re touching bottom of the facts in this situation.
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I don’t dismiss them either, if anything I think John is more likely to be “theologizing” - but I also don’t think these two theories (Tamid vs Pasch) are mutually exclusive - in fact, since Jesus fulfilled ALL the Law and the Prophets, it is more reasonable to think that He was both - just as He was both priest and victim, although those are even more incompatible than the two different sacrifices. . . .
 
To me, it is seems that Jesus was crucified at the time the lambs were being killed for the Passover, which was the day before the Passover, which seemed to be ocurring on a Friday making the crucifixion on Thursday, followed by the Sabbath on Saturday and then raised on Sunday.That is three days and three nights. So that fits. To me the three days and three nights was pretty non-negotiable from prophecy, but seems to have been dismissed to force a Friday crucifixion.
So, he was not killed on the Passover, but was killed during the Passover week, allowing him to be referred to the Passover Lamb.
To me it makes more sense for him to die before the old Passover festival, or the Passover would have begun, thus already "redeeming the Isrealites, thus “somewhat” minimizing the effect of Jesus’ death. His death came first, and this is the only way I can see how he can take over the role of redeemer from the legal festival, in fact making it obsolete at that point.
You can’t abbrogate something if it’s already happened.
And it seems the Gospels are saying that he was taken directly from his trial to his execution, and the Priests were not in the process of performing the Passover ritual yet.
There seems no logic in saying that the Priests were holding court in the unclean Roman area on a Holy Day. They would then have been unable to participate in the ritual.
 
I’ve always understood it to be that Jesus secured the room for the Passover meal to be celebrated with his Apostles. That is the Last Supper. Judas left that room that evening to go to the officials and betray Jesus. This was a thursday. Jesus was seized in the Garden that evening, taken to face the different “trials” over night. and was rushed to be crucified on Good Friday the next day. Then Jesus was taken off the cross and put in the Tomb not properly annointed because the Sabbath was approaching. The women came the day after the Sabbath, thinking they would finish annointing, when they found the empty tomb of our risen Lord.
 
The tradition that Jesus died during Passover week dates back to the first century Church. It is a tradition that is believed by all of the Apostolic Churches. However, the Roman Church is the only Catholic Church that does reconcile its calendar with the Eastern calendar. That’s why we’re the only Catholics who do not celebrate Easter during Passover week. All other Catholics and Orthodox celebrate it during Passover week. The Eastern Churches inherited this from the apostles who founded them. The Roman Church acknowledges that it was during Passover week.

We do not celebrate it during the week of Passover, because the Western calendar was adjusted several times throwing off the liturgical year. That’s why your Ukrainian Catholic friends celebrate Easter during Passover and the Great Lent, as they call it, is different from our Roman Lent. In some Eastern Catholic Churches the liturgical calendar follows the Jewish calendar where the new year begins at Rosh Hashanah. Roman Catholics count the days to Easter from January 1. Eastern Catholics count the days to Pasch from Rosh Hashanah. Most Eastern Catholics simply follow the Jewish calendar, because they consider it the more orthodox thing to do. That’s a small “o” on orthodox, though the Orthodox Christians follow the same liturgical calendar as the Eastern Catholics. The Roman Catholics are the only ones who are out of synch.

As to the number of days, Jesus did die on Friday, not Thursday. In the old Jewish calendar the ordinal numbers were the same as cardinal numbers. The first day meant day one. Jesus rises on the third day if you use the Jewish method of counting days: Friday, Saturday and Sunday. If you’re a religious or an older Catholic you may remember that there was a time when the Catholic Church used the Jewish clock to pray the Divine Office. We called the hours tierce, sext, none. Tierce was the third hour of the day, but it was not 3:00 am. You had Matins at midnight, lauds at sunrise, then terce or the third hour after sunrise, which could be about 9:00 am. We use ordinal and cardinal numbers. Day one is not the same as the first day. If I’m 35 years old, then I’m in my 36th year. You see the difference between our system and their system?

When the scriptures say that Jesus died at a specific hour, they’re not using our clock. They’re counting the hours from sunrise. It is more than likely that Jesus died about noon, because they had to find a burial place. To do all the running around that they did to get the Pontius Pilate to give them the body, go back and get the body, burry him and get home before sunset, would take a little time. They could not just walk in on Pontius Pilate. As you get closer to the equator the sunset gets earlier. At the equator sunset and sunrise are at approximately 6 and 6. It does not change throughout the year as it does in the southern and northern hemispheres.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
=NHInsider;6610340]John sets the execution at the time of the sacrifice of the lambs in the Temple. The synoptics’ descriptions of the Last Supper may be interpreted as saying that He must have been executed after the Passover - although I believe you can make the case that He deliberately and to the surprise of the apostles celebrated the seder with them early - so that at the time when they would have been eating unleavened bread topped with sacrificial lamb, they were instead holding only bread, and He said to them “take and eat - this is my Body which will be given up for you.”
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References to the Day of Preparation for the Sabbath and the Day of Preparation for the Passover further complicate the discussion.
Click to expand...
To your specific question as far as I know, the answer is no. The Church follows St. Paul in describing Jesus as our paschal lamb, but does not define the date on the Hebrew calendar that the crucifixion occurred, nor has she felt it necessary to definitively “resolve” the apparent discrepancy.
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Perhaps we are missing the KEYpoint, which is that Christ is similar to the Passover lamb:

Unblemished, male and Sacrificed for Redemption, and the possibility of furture salvation?

Love and prayers,
Pat
 
NHInsider said:
John sets the execution at the time of the sacrifice of the lambs in the Temple. The synoptics’ descriptions of the Last Supper may be interpreted as saying that He must have been executed after the Passover - although I believe you can make the case that He deliberately and to the surprise of the apostles celebrated the seder with them early - so that at the time when they would have been eating unleavened bread topped with sacrificial lamb, they were instead holding only bread, and He said to them “take and eat - this is my Body which will be given up for you.”

References to the Day of Preparation for the Sabbath and the Day of Preparation for the Passover further complicate the discussion.

To your specific question as far as I know, the answer is no. The Church follows St. Paul in describing Jesus as our paschal lamb, but does not define the date on the Hebrew calendar that the crucifixion occurred, ****
**nor has she felt it necessary to definitively “resolve” the apparent discrepancy/******B].

Hi Insider, could it be that the reason the Church has not found it necessary to do so, is that, it would infer that our Lord was still keeping the Sabbath Rest according to the Commandment, even in death? Probably not a comfortable position for the Church to be in. I’m just musing. Christian regards, ALISANDRO.
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I’m not surprised. Christ did not come to abolish the law, He came to fullfill it. I’m sure the Church is comfortable with that.
 
ClarkJaman said:
The gospel of John is the only one to state that Jesus was crucified on the Jewish passover. Does the Church define whether or not Jesus was in fact crucified on the passover?

I would appreciate if you guys cited your responses. Thanks for your time. 🙂
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Actually, John’s Gospel indicates Jesus was crucified on the day BEFORE Passover, the day of preparation.

The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) indicate Jesus was crucified on the day OF Passover.

Historically, we don’t know which is correct. The key point is that Jesus’ crucifixion is connected to Passover.
 
diggerdomer said:
Actually, John’s Gospel indicates Jesus was crucified on the day BEFORE Passover, the day of preparation.

The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) indicate Jesus was crucified on the day OF Passover.

Historically, we don’t know which is correct. The key point is that Jesus’ crucifixion is connected to Passover.
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Actually we do know. Passover lasted an entire week. It began on what we would call Palm Sunday and ended that Saturday. That’s why there was such a large crowd of Jews in Jerusalem that week. It was Passover Week.

We have to remember that John’s Gospel was not intended to be a historical presentation of Jesus. John’s intent is to show that Jesus is the promised Messiah by offering proofs. John organizes his material according to his theme. That’s why John’s Gospel does ot fit the Synoptics. It has two very interesting things happening simultaneously. First, there is John’s attempt to prove that Jesus is the Messiah. Second, (not intended) is John’s mystical understanding of Jesus.

Unlike the other writers, John is a mystic. He presents us a theological Jesus. He’s not itnerested in the historical fact as much as he is interested in the significance of Jesus in salvation history. What was the significance of Jesus? His Messiahship.

This does not mean that John is historically wrong. Not at all. What it means is that John only uses those points of history that prove the Messiahship of Christ. Anything else about Christ, John leaves out, because by the time that he writes his Gospel, everything that can be said about Christ’s life has been said by the Synoptic writers. He’s not interested in repeating the same story.

The day of preparation would be accurate as well as Passover Day. Because in ancient Judaism, the celebration was always at the Seder, which took place at the evening meel. From John’s perspective, Jesus dies before the Passover.

He deliberately does this to point out to the fact that Jesus is truly a faithful Jew. He does the work of salvation without violating the Jewish law. He dies before the evening arrives.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
Actually we do know. Passover lasted an entire week. It began on what we would call Palm Sunday and ended that Saturday. That’s why there was such a large crowd of Jews in Jerusalem that week. It was Passover Week.

We have to remember that John’s Gospel was not intended to be a historical presentation of Jesus. John’s intent is to show that Jesus is the promised Messiah by offering proofs. John organizes his material according to his theme. That’s why John’s Gospel does ot fit the Synoptics. It has two very interesting things happening simultaneously. First, there is John’s attempt to prove that Jesus is the Messiah. Second, (not intended) is John’s mystical understanding of Jesus.

Unlike the other writers, John is a mystic. He presents us a theological Jesus. He’s not itnerested in the historical fact as much as he is interested in the significance of Jesus in salvation history. What was the significance of Jesus? His Messiahship.

This does not mean that John is historically wrong. Not at all. What it means is that John only uses those points of history that prove the Messiahship of Christ. Anything else about Christ, John leaves out, because by the time that he writes his Gospel, everything that can be said about Christ’s life has been said by the Synoptic writers. He’s not interested in repeating the same story.

The day of preparation would be accurate as well as Passover Day. Because in ancient Judaism, the celebration was always at the Seder, which took place at the evening meel. From John’s perspective, Jesus dies before the Passover.

He deliberately does this to point out to the fact that Jesus is truly a faithful Jew. He does the work of salvation without violating the Jewish law. He dies before the evening arrives.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Passover was one day. The 14th of Nisan. This is attested in numerous places in the Bible. The Feast of Unleavened Bread lasted 8 days (likewise the Feast of Pentecost and Tabernacles). The two originally distinct feasts became conflated and were celebrated together. Passover, still is just one day. Check any Jewish calendar.
 
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