Gospel of Thomas...

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TheoloJer

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Last night, my roommate was looking this particular Gospel up and intends on memorizing it. I say good for him, but I’d like to know why this Gospel was taken out of the Bible and why does it predate the other four gospels?
 
it is a gnostic gospel and has a number of errors in it which resulted in the book not to be included in the cannon of scripture. It would be wise not to read it and become confused.
 
It doesn’t predate the inspired gospels. It was excluded from the gospels because it was written by Gnostics. A heretical sect that attempted to combine Christianity with the mystery cults popular at the time.
 
TheoloJer said:
Last night, my roommate was looking this particular Gospel up and intends on memorizing it. I say good for him, but I’d like to know why this Gospel was taken out of the Bible and why does it predate the other four gospels?
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It wasn’t taken out because it was never in.

Have you seen it? (Harmony of the Gospel of Thomas) It’s a set of sayings, and very different in form, although many of the sayings are the same. It also doesn’t predate the material in the Gospels.

There are a lot of writings called “gospels” which just means someone’s testimony, although I believe the word originally meant “truth.” You can find a lot of them here: earlychristianwritings.com/
 
The “Lost Gospels” are demonic. Read them yourself, there is no denying it. In the fake gospel of “mary” (magdalen) they talk about things like our Lord reluctantly giving in to demons so that he could enter this world…there was more demonic stuff in there I just can’t remember it.

I love Constantine.
 
Amusingly enough, this text was already mentioned in the III Century by the theologian Hyppolitus of Rome in his “Refutation of all Heresies”:
The Naassenes speak…of a nature which is both hidden and revealed at the same time and which they call the thought-for kingdom of heaven which is in a human being. They transmit a tradition concerning this in the Gospel entitled “According to Thomas”
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Theologian and Doctor of the Church Cyril of Jerusalem also mentioned this text in the IV century:
The Manichæans also wrote a Gospel according to Thomas, which being tinctured with the fragrance of the evangelic title corrupts the souls of the simple sort. Let none read the Gospel according to Thomas: for it is the work not of one of the twelve Apostles, but of one of the three wicked disciples of Manes.
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So it’s not good for him at all, it’s just going to make him fall into an ancient deception 🤷
 
I’ve read the Gospel of Thomas and I have not found in there anything good, that would not already been in the canonical gospels. Actually, anything that was not also in the gospels of M, M, L and J, was just weird, strange, illogical and somehow irrational.
 
“Scholars” (Bork, Crossan, Pagels) who date the GoT to the first century, even before the cannonical gospels have to do so a special pleading utterly unsupported by the textual evidence. All the evidence points to a post 150 AD composition, by syriac Christians, influenced by gnosticism, and drawing from a popular conflation of the cannonical gospels, the Diatesseron whose composition is defintely post 150 AD.
 
ThomasMartin said:
I’ve read the Gospel of Thomas and I have not found in there anything good, that would not already been in the canonical gospels. Actually, anything that was not also in the gospels of M, M, L and J, was just weird, strange, illogical and somehow irrational.
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EXACTLY. I read “Thomas”. He changes the parables around that are in the real Gospel as well.

For instance instead of good vs bad fish small vs big fish.

They don’t seem illogical though. There is a train of logic that is coherent. It contradicts what your true logic knows. It is almost like backwards logic lol.

I do wonder though… why would anyone ever think you have to be smart to get into heaven (gnostics)?

EDIT: All evidence would suggest that it does not predate the real Gospels.
 
FaithInTheSon said:
EXACTLY. I read “Thomas”. He changes the parables around that are in the real Gospel as well.

For instance instead of good vs bad fish small vs big fish.

.
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It doesn’t look like a parable from the Canonical Gospels “changed around,” it look like something original to the GTh:
And he said, “The man is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear.”
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Julia_Mae said:
It doesn’t look like a parable from the Canonical Gospels “changed around,” it look like something original to the GTh:
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Your telling me that does not look like a perversion of our Lord’s parable?
 
TheoloJer said:
Last night, my roommate was looking this particular Gospel up and intends on memorizing it. I say good for him, but I’d like to know why this Gospel was taken out of the Bible and why does it predate the other four gospels?
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There’s certainly that theory, but I think the camp which thinks that Thomas was dependent on the canonical synoptics (Matthew, Mark, Luke) has more weight.
 
The fun thing is that the gospel comes down to us in two versions: back in 1901, explorers Arthur Hunt and Bernard Grenfell found fragments of a hitherto-unknown gospel in Greek, which resembled the synoptics and yet unlike, at the ruins of Oxyrhynchus. Before the substantial (and more famous) Coptic version was found among a cache of gnostic texts at Nag Hammadi in 1945 people simply called this yet-unknown gospel the Logia Iesu (‘words of Jesus’).

There are marked differences between the two versions, such as in the order of some sayings, and even the wording. This, coupled with the fact that Hippolytus’ supposed quote from it (Logia 4) differs from the surviving versions, may suggest that the gospel circulated in different versions and redactions. It is still generally thought to have been composed in Greek, although there is evidence that the Coptic version might be based on a Syriac text (fun fact: a lot of Thomas literature are traced to Syria now and again).
 
One of the problems the Church has with the Gnostics and their writings, such as the Gospel of Thomas, is that they believe that you need a hidden knowledge to be saved, so that the divine spark may be freed from the sinful flesh.

This doctrine has two problems:

(1) You need something hidden for the elect, not what is freely available to all in the faith we hold and teach.

(2) It teaches that the flesh is evil, and that salvation will mean freedom from the flesh. We believe in the resurrection of the body–that we will live forever, body and soul, in heaven.

The Gospel of Thomas at least hints at both of these false doctrines.
 
Logia 4 compared:

Jesus said, “A person old in days will not hesitate to ask a child seven days old about his place in life and he will live. For many of the first will be last and many of the last will be first and they will become one.”
  • Greek version (P. Oxy. 654)
Jesus says: “The man old in his days will not hesitate to ask a child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live. For many who are first will become last, and they will become a single one.”
  • Coptic version
“The one who seeks me will find me in children of seven years and older, for there, hidden in the fourteenth aeon, I am revealed.”
  • As quoted in Hippolytus, Refutation of All Heresies 5.7.20
 
Julia_Mae said:
How about you post which of our Lord’s parables you believe it is a “perversion” of and we’ll see what everyone thinks.
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No. Go read.

Edit: ok heres a hint. It is a parable in Matthew.

Actually though it happens quite a few times in that fake gospel. This is not close to the only example…
 
Logion 28

(Greek)

Jesus said, “I stood in the midst of the world and in the flesh I appeared to them, and I found everyone drunk and none thirsty among them. And my soul worries about the sons of men because they are blind in their hearts and they do not see.”

(Coptic)

Jesus said: I stood in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in the flesh. I found them all drunk; I found none of them thirsting, and my soul was afflicted for the sons of men; for they are blind in their heart, and they do not see that they came empty into the world, (and) empty they seek to leave the world again. But now they are drunk.When they have thrown off their wine, they will repent.

Logion 30+77

(Greek)

Jesus said, “Where there are three they are without God. And where there is only one, I say, I am with him. Lift the stone and there you will find me. Split the wood and I am there.”

(Coptic)

(30) Jesus says: “Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him.”

(77) Jesus says: “I am the light that is over all. I am the All. The All came forth out of me. And to me the All has come. Split a piece of wood – I am there. Lift the stone, and you will find me there.”

Logion 36

(Greek)

[Jesus said, “Do not worry f]rom early until late nor from evening until morning. Worry neither for your food, what you will eat, nor for your clothes, what you will wear. You are much greater than the lillies which neither card nor spin. When you have no clothing, what do you wear? Who can add to your time of life? He it is who will give you your clothing.”

(Coptic)

Jesus says: “Do not worry from morning to evening and from evening to morning about what you will wear.”

Logion 37

(Greek)

His disciples said to him, “When will you be visible to us? And when will we see you?” He said, “When you undress and are not ashamed.”

(Coptic)

His disciples said: “When will you appear to us, and when will we see you?” Jesus said: “When you undress without being ashamed (and) take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children (and) trample on them, then [you] will see the son of the Living One, and you will not be afraid.”
 
FaithInTheSon said:
No. Go read.

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So, I say it isn’t any parable in the Gospel that has been twisted and you say “go read?” 😃 SRSLY?? So, you don’t have a clue about any parable, do you? Son, I’ve read Matthew more times than you’ve had birthdays. There’s no parable there “perverted” in the GTh.
Actually though it happens quite a few times in that fake gospel. This is not close to the only example…
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You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. There are no examples.
 
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