Gospel: Paul vs. Jesus

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I came across an interesting statement by Thomas Jefferson stating that Paul was “the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus”. Thoughts and comments on the differences between the doctrines of Jesus and the doctrines of Paul…

God Bless!
 
M_Winters;7874761Thoughts and comments on the differences between the doctrines of Jesus and the doctrines of Paul...:
there are no differences and contradictions between the doctrines of Jesus and those of Paul. There are manifold differences, however, between the actual doctrines of Jesus, and the way these are interpreted by Deists and rationalist thinkers like Jefferson and others of his age.
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What about the differences between what Jesus seems to imply about salvation through behavioral changes and Paul on faith? I am only trying to gain a more deeper understanding…
 
Can you give any examples (from Jefferson or other sources) of how Peter corrupted Jesus’s doctrines?
 
My understanding of Jefferson was that he was very much against the ‘radical’ Jesus, and tried to ‘tame’ some of his teachings…
 
And how would Jefferson know? By comparing the gospels with the letters? Jefferson was working with the same data set we all have in common, yet came to that conclusion. I wonder what he thought constituted a corruption. But we do know what he considered corruptions of Jesus’ doctrine by others, as evidenced in what is omitted from Jefferson’s edition (books.google.com/books?id=jEMJCUxCsxcC). Maybe for Jefferson a corruption is whatever Jefferson doesn’t like.

At the same time, keep in mind Jesus was talking to Jews, Paul to Pagans. And neither mode would be appropriate for an audience of secular humanists.
 
I think this happens when one reads Paul’s writings outside of the light of Christ. Whenever I read Paul’s Letters, I try and reconcile what Paul says according to what Jesus says. I find that people often use Paul to “overrule” what Christ said.

For example: Jesus continuously says that we must love one another, take care of the poor, and refrain from sin.

Many people feel that they can throw all this out the window by reading “We are saved by Grace, not by works…”. It has led to perversions of the faith such as Once Saved, Always Saved.
 
M_Winters said:
What about the differences between what Jesus seems to imply about salvation through behavioral changes and Paul on faith? I am only trying to gain a more deeper understanding…
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These are not really differences so much as level of detail and explanation.
As another poster said, Jesus was talking to Jews (people of Abrahamic faith) where Paul was talking a much wider audience including large numbers of people from various pagan backgrounds.
To me the greatest synthesis of the two is in James where he talks about what a saving faith entails. (Faith without works in dead)

So Jesus, talking to those already to those with faith is explaining what a true saving faith entails. Paul, kept things more basic for evagelization purposes.

Peace
James
 
The problem is not with scripture, but with Thomas Jefferson. His religious views were quite radical for even his time.

Jefferson was affiliated with the Anglican Church before the Revolutionary War. The Anglican Church, at the time, was the official state religion of Virginia and membership in the official state religion was a prerequisite for election to local and statewide office. But Jefferson was a deist who believed that you do not need organized religion to know God in his fullness and a unitarian who believed in a monotheistic God. These views were probaly part of his impetus for disassociating organized religion from secular government during and after the revolution.

As one of the founding fathers and author of the Declaration of Independance, Jefferson’s place in US culture renders any question of his beliefs and writings tantamount to blasphemy or treason. But much of what he wrote and said was higly controversial in its day and I wonder if a little less separation of Church and state might do this nation some good nowadays.

Anyway, Jefferson is harldly the man to go to for authoritative teaching on Scripture.

-Tim-
 
Jefferson edited the accepted gospels of the time to eliminate the miracles and “supernatural” events, leaving just the philosophical aspects of the Jesus’ ministry.
 
Many such beliefs can be traced to post-enlightenment Germanic protestant scholarship suggesting that Pauline theology was hellenized to the point of containing no continuity with its Jewish roots…essentially a completely different gospel. This scholarship has been thoroughly debunked, by Catholic and protestant scholars alike.
 
Paul: follower of Jesus or founder of Christianity?‎David Wenham

Did St Paul Get Jesus Right?: The Gospel According to Paul‎David Wenham

Paul & Jesus‎Frederick Fyvie Bruce
 
steve53 said:
Jefferson edited the accepted gospels of the time to eliminate the miracles and “supernatural” events, leaving just the philosophical aspects of the Jesus’ ministry.
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Yep, this little work is called The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. Jefferson cut out and pasted passages from all four Gospels (leaving out the supernatural stuff of course) and combined them all together, in effect creating a Gospel harmony. After he completed it, about 1820, Jefferson shared it with a number of friends, but he never allowed it to be published during his lifetime for a variety of reasons; it was only first published in 1895.

As for what Jefferson believed, he was apparently one of those “I like Jesus but hate the Church” types. He is most closely connected with the Episcopal Church, Unitarianism, and Deism; in fact, it may be precisely because of his sympathy for Deism that he had a rationalistic view of Jesus as moral teacher, whose teachings were unfortunately distorted by later followers, instead of incarnate Son of God.

During his 1800 campaign for the presidency, he had to contend with critics who argued that he was unfit to hold office because he did not have orthodox religious beliefs (this may also be part of the reason why he prevented publication of Life and Morals during his lifetime, and may even be what caused him to work on it).
 
I believe that Jesus in the Gospels and Paul in his epistles teach the same truths. Jesus was speaking primarily to the Jews while Paul was primarily evangelizing the gentiles. Paul was one of the most powerful evangelists in history and, I’m sure, has a very secure place in Heaven.🙂
 
M_Winters said:
I came across an interesting statement by Thomas Jefferson stating that Paul was “the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus”. Thoughts and comments on the differences between the doctrines of Jesus and the doctrines of Paul…

God Bless!
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Because, I am willing to bet, most of us don’t believe there is a difference between the doctrines of Paul and the doctrines of Jesus. Given that, in order to get any actual answers to your question, you will need to provide an example of where you see a difference–then others will be able to show you why they believe there is not a difference.

Peace,
Mark
 
M_Winters said:
What about the differences between what Jesus seems to imply about salvation through behavioral changes and Paul on faith? I am only trying to gain a more deeper understanding…
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I don’t see a problem. God’s grace saves us by giving us faith working in “behavioral changes” (love). Salvation is transformational, not just imputational.
 
=M_Winters;7874761]I came across an interesting statement by Thomas Jefferson stating that Paul was “the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus”. Thoughts and comments on the differences between the doctrines of Jesus and the doctrines of Paul…
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God Bless!
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Wasn’t THOMAS the GREAT Doubter 🤷

If you can be MORE SPECIFIC so can I 🙂

God Bless,

Pat
 
PJM said:
Wasn’t THOMAS the GREAT Doubter 🤷

If you can be MORE SPECIFIC so can I 🙂

God Bless,

Pat
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I was reading about how examples of the saving faith Jesus teaches implies more of a behavioral change where Paul seems to place more emphasis in faith alone. I am looking for an agreement to the two (a lovely collaboration between the two). Someone said that James was the connection where he writes faith without works is dead.

Sincerely in Christ
 
=Swiss Guy;7880235]I don’t see a problem. God’s grace saves us by giving us faith working in “behavioral changes” (love). Salvation is transformational, not just imputational.
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Please may I clarify what is being shared?

Salvation is NOT IN ANY WAY a “given FACT.” It is a PROCESS as Taught by Jesus aided by Grace.

The Single source of grace of course is Jesus himself; which is the precise reason he instituted the Seven sacraments. The sacrament of a Christian baptism can be had from any Christian church; using water in the Name of the Blessed Trinity. It’s effects are One-Time and in a sense permnant.

One Time in that it can not be received again [although catholics have the sacrament of the Annointing of the Sick] that has the same effect on all sins of the past and even the payback due for them.

It is permnant is that Once entered into the Family of God’s community; one may not choose to abandon God for ANY reason there-after.

The CC[and its brances] is the one place where all the sacramnets are practiced fully and licitly; meaning in particular; can MAKE JESUS REALLY Present; and can provide KNOWN forgiveness of sins with Certitude.

God can [His choice]’ change “us” ONLY to the degree that we desire to be changed. That means allowing Him to change us. God CANNOT over-ride our intellects and FREEWILLS; because it would violate the reason he gave them to us. [Isa. 43: 7, 21].

Grace being a FREE Gift from God; can and often is refused or applied incorrectly. Out fault not God’s. Not so differnt than sin; our personal choices are MEANINGFUL to God. But they remain OUR choices.

Salvation flows necessarly from us; from our choices to and through God. It requires informed, humble Obedience to ALL that he Teaches.

God Bless,
Pat
 
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