Gospel: Paul vs. Jesus

[Church_Militant]

Much as I like and agree with Jefferson on many things that he said, religion is not one of them. I understand he edited his Bible, removing things that he disagreed with.

He needed to stick to politics I guess…

 

[razredge]

Paul can be thought of as one of the very first theologians - one who was primarily concerned with converting Gentiles and faced opposition from the Jewish church over adherence to Mosaic Law.

If you read Paul’s teachings on faith vs works in this context then it makes far more sense compared to the teachings of Jesus:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Perspective_on_Paul

And of course - if there is a contradiction - Jesus trumps Paul or any of the apostles (which is something many Protestants seem to forget)

 

[trogiah]

Thomas Jefferson should have read the gospel more carefully. Peter corrupted the teachings of Jesus sooner than Paul did. No sooner had Jesus promised Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven on earth when Peter tried to talk Jesus out of his path towards suffering and death. Jesus promptly rebuked Peter and called him a Satan.

Every Pope, every Apostle, every Saint, every bishop and priest and brother and sister, every Christian has missed the mark. But because some were/are correct in some large measures they are respected and listened to and recognized as valid earthly authorities. None of them got it 100% correct. Just as none of us do today. Jesus has the last word and if we can’t reconcile what we understand Paul (or any other authority) to be saying with our understanding of what Jesus was saying - we should go with Jesus.

So Thomas Jefferson wasn’t correct. Paul wasn’t the first.

peace,

Jim

 

[RobbyS]

Yep, this little work is called The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. Jefferson cut out and pasted passages from all four Gospels (leaving out the supernatural stuff of course) and combined them all together, in effect creating a Gospel harmony. After he completed it, about 1820, Jefferson shared it with a number of friends, but he never allowed it to be published during his lifetime for a variety of reasons; it was only first published in 1895.

As for what Jefferson believed, he was apparently one of those “I like Jesus but hate the Church” types. He is most closely connected with the Episcopal Church, Unitarianism, and Deism; in fact, it may be precisely because of his sympathy for Deism that he had a rationalistic view of Jesus as moral teacher, whose teachings were unfortunately distorted by later followers, instead of incarnate Son of God.

During his 1800 campaign for the presidency, he had to contend with critics who argued that he was unfit to hold office because he did not have orthodox religious beliefs (this may also be part of the reason why he prevented publication of Life and Morals during his lifetime, and may even be what caused him to work on it).

Jefferson implicitly rejected the idea of revelation as a form of knowledge.

 

[NotWorthy]

Thomas Jefferson should have read the gospel more carefully. Peter corrupted the teachings of Jesus sooner than Paul did. No sooner had Jesus promised Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven on earth when Peter tried to talk Jesus out of his path towards suffering and death. Jesus promptly rebuked Peter and called him a Satan.

Every Pope, every Apostle, every Saint, every bishop and priest and brother and sister, every Christian has missed the mark. But because some were/are correct in some large measures they are respected and listened to and recognized as valid earthly authorities. None of them got it 100% correct. Just as none of us do today. Jesus has the last word and if we can’t reconcile what we understand Paul (or any other authority) to be saying with our understanding of what Jesus was saying - we should go with Jesus.

So Thomas Jefferson wasn’t correct. Paul wasn’t the first.

peace,

Jim

I would stop short of “corrupted the teachings”. You don’t corrupt the teachings unless you teach them to others. I would not say that the Church has corrupted the teachings of Jesus, for that would imply that the gates of hell have prevailed… and that would mean that Jesus Himself corrupted His very own teachings.

 

[trogiah]

I would stop short of “corrupted the teachings”. You don’t corrupt the teachings unless you teach them to others. I would not say that the Church has corrupted the teachings of Jesus, for that would imply that the gates of hell have prevailed… and that would mean that Jesus Himself corrupted His very own teachings.

Corrupted is a strong word. It came from Thomas Jefferson rather than from me. I remain confident that the Good News of God’s kingdom that Jesus preached will withstand all the misunderstandings that are experienced be every other human other than Jesus. But I think it is part of a healthy faith to recognize that the Bible records distortions of the faith in every person quoted in the Bible (except Jesus) and that we should always look to Jesus for the clearest understanding.

The Church’s formal teachings conform reliably to Jesus’ teachings but that does not mean that every word uttered by every teacher of the church is free of distortion. I don’t think Thomas Jefferson is wrong to say that Paul seems to have biases and incomplete understanding of God’s kingdom. He is wrong to imply that somehow this means that the Church that Jesus instituted is somehow irrevocably “corrupted.”