Gospel readings

[djkio]

Recently, our Church began doing the Gospel readings with multiple readers, including the Priest, Deacon, lector and sometimes music leader, doing (for lack of a better term) parts. The Deacon is usually the narrator, the Priest reads any qoute that Jesus spoke, and the others read any quotes not attributed to Jesus. I know this is common for the Passion of Christ, but I have never before seen or heard of this. Is this something new or is this even an acceptable practice?

 

[MusicMan]

This is a common abuse during the Lenten Season. Those who seek to be innovative with the Mass view this as a logical extension of the format of the Passion on Palm Sunday and Good Friday. It is not allowed except for the Passion on Palm Sunday or Good Friday.

The Deacon should be the one proclaiming the Gospel, as that is a chief component of his ministry, and it is a liturgical duty that he is tasked with. When there is no Deacon, the Priest must, by virtue of his own ordination to the Diaconate, proclaim the Gospel.

 

[djkio]

Thanks, this was my understanding and after mass i mentioned it to my wife. This particular priest/parish has a history of pushing the envelope.

 

[benedictgal]

This is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say on the matter:

[63.] Within the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy, the reading of the Gospel, which is “the high point of the Liturgy of the Word”,139 is reserved by the Church’s tradition to an ordained minister.140 Thus it is not permitted for a layperson, even a religious, to proclaim the Gospel reading in the celebration of Holy Mass, nor in other cases in which the norms do not explicitly permit it.141

Furthermore, the USCCB issued its own commentary regarding of the Constitution on Sacred Liturty. One of the issues touched upon concerned the issue of the Proclamation of the Gospel:

The division of any readings into parts, except for the Passion, is prohibited by the new Instruction. (109

Unfortunately, for many parishes, Lent seems to be the time of the year for everyone to get the creative bug. Someone please get the flyswatter.

 

[Spiller]

For the last three Sundays (2/24, 3/2 and 3/9) our liturgy committee has spent a great deal of time preparing “dialog” readings of the Gospel.

On 2/24 we had a visiting priest and he went a long with it. He and 2 laymen read the Gospel. On 3/2 one of our parochial vicars told the resident liturgy committee member that he would be reading the Gospel solo and she informed the readers. Last Sunday he told the OT and NT Epistle readers directly which caused a problem as the liturgy committee member exhibited great confusion during the Mass.

If there any precedent from the Church that suggests these readings from Lent can/should be read in a dialog fashion akin to the Lord’s Passion on Good Friday? Or is this simply more nutty liturgical committee innovation? Thanks.

 

[japhy]

For the last three Sundays (2/24, 3/2 and 3/9) our liturgy committee has spent a great deal of time preparing “dialog” readings of the Gospel.

On 2/24 we had a visiting priest and he went a long with it. He and 2 laymen read the Gospel. On 3/2 one of our parochial vicars told the resident liturgy committee member that he would be reading the Gospel solo and she informed the readers. Last Sunday he told the OT and NT Epistle readers directly which caused a problem as the liturgy committee member exhibited great confusion during the Mass.

If there any precedent from the Church that suggests these readings from Lent can/should be read in a dialog fashion akin to the Lord’s Passion on Good Friday? Or is this simply more nutty liturgical committee innovation? Thanks.

This is happening with alarming frequency! This is AT LEAST the fourth thread on the issue this Lent! I’m not scolding you for posting, just pointing out that several people have mentioned this happening in their parishes.

There is NO permission for a Gospel to be read by multiple people EXCEPT on Palm Sunday and Good Friday (with possible exceptions to be made for Masses for Children). The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has made this clear. It is NOT allowed. It even says so in the GIRM, and the USCCB has pointed this out (see this post by benedictgal). GIRM 109 is very clear:
… it is not at all appropriate that several persons divide a single element of the celebration among themselves, e.g., that the same reading be proclaimed by two lectors, one after the other, except as far as the Passion of the Lord is concerned.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

This is part of the continuing problem of celebrants who can’t believe the liturgy will be effective without their personal touch. I think the term is PRIDE.

 

[MusicMan]

I think we’re being a bit unduely harsh with our criticisms of others here.

As I said in my post, this is just the logical extension of the Lenten Passion readings by those who try to be innovative. It makes perfect sense to my why someone would think this to be a worthy practice. It certainly isn’t allowed, but I can see why people think this would be a good idea.

I commend the above mentioned Vicar for not allowing the practice at the Masses he was presiding at.

 

[japhy]

On 3/2 one of our parochial vicars told the resident liturgy committee member that he would be reading the Gospel solo and she informed the readers. Last Sunday he told the OT and NT Epistle readers directly which caused a problem as the liturgy committee member exhibited great confusion during the Mass. … is this simply more nutty liturgical committee innovation? Thanks.

As I said in my post, this is just the logical extension of the Lenten Passion readings by those who try to be innovative. It makes perfect sense to my why someone would think this to be a worthy practice. It certainly isn’t allowed, but I can see why people think this would be a good idea.

I commend the above mentioned Vicar for not allowing the practice at the Masses he was presiding at.

The problem is that these “liturgy committees” (not that the liturgy is decided by a committee…) are not educated. I’m curious what documents they use. I’m not on any liturgy committee (although I wish I were) but I have a fair number of actual real resources. I have the Sacramentary, the GIRM, “Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite”, “Ceremonies of the Liturgical Year”, and probably a dozen documents on the liturgy from the Church (like Redemptionis Sacramentum). If I were on such a committee, I wouldn’t invent stuff; I would expect our job is to assist everybody (priests, lectors, EMsHC, cantor, choirs, ushers, and all the laity) in the celebration of the Mass and other liturgical rites. I would seek to ensure we’re not breaking any liturgical rules. I’d think the goal of such a committee is to provide assistance to the priest so that he needn’t worry about so much, and I’d bet we’d reach that goal by following the Church’s instructions.

 

[Spiller]

This is part of the continuing problem of celebrants who can’t believe the liturgy will be effective without their personal touch. I think the term is PRIDE.

Naw, the celebrant followed the rules. He hung the “liturgical committee” out to dry but he didn’t allow the dialogue…

 

[Spiller]

I think we’re being a bit unduely harsh with our criticisms of others here.

As I said in my post, this is just the logical extension of the Lenten Passion readings by those who try to be innovative. It makes perfect sense to my why someone would think this to be a worthy practice. It certainly isn’t allowed, but I can see why people think this would be a good idea.

I commend the above mentioned Vicar for not allowing the practice at the Masses he was presiding at.

Anyone who thinks it’s a good idea is someone who is VERY shallow.

Yes at a very visceral level I can see how it would seem “nice.” It doesn’t take much thought to see that it’s not, however.

 

[Spiller]

The problem is that these “liturgy committees” (not that the liturgy is decided by a committee…) are not educated. I’m curious what documents they use. I’m not on any liturgy committee (although I wish I were) but I have a fair number of actual real resources. I have the Sacramentary, the GIRM, “Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite”, “Ceremonies of the Liturgical Year”, and probably a dozen documents on the liturgy from the Church (like Redemptionis Sacramentum). If I were on such a committee, I wouldn’t invent stuff; I would expect our job is to assist everybody (priests, lectors, EMsHC, cantor, choirs, ushers, and all the laity) in the celebration of the Mass and other liturgical rites. I would seek to ensure we’re not breaking any liturgical rules. I’d think the goal of such a committee is to provide assistance to the priest so that he needn’t worry about so much, and I’d bet we’d reach that goal by following the Church’s instructions.

Oh! In my parish they sure claim to be! They have laughable “Masters of Pastoral Studies” correspondence degrees from LIMEX. You cannot even “earn” the degrees they have anymore because Loyola was forced to reform their programs or lose the minimal accreditation they had. They are all a bunch of wasted paychecks (even if they don’t get paid.)

 

[Phemie]

For the last three Sundays (2/24, 3/2 and 3/9) our liturgy committee has spent a great deal of time preparing “dialog” readings of the Gospel.

The only dialog gospels in any of the approved Lectionaries are the Passions. Since we are not to read from anything but an approved Lectionary (or Book of Gospels) that should be their first clue that they are doing something wrong.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Oh! In my parish they sure claim to be! They have laughable “Masters of Pastoral Studies” correspondence degrees from LIMEX. You cannot even “earn” the degrees they have anymore because Loyola was forced to reform their programs or lose the minimal accreditation they had. They are all a bunch of wasted paychecks (even if they don’t get paid.)

Please post your cirriculum vitae for all of us to see. I’m interested in graduate degrees held, where they were obtained, and final GPA.

 

[benedictgal]

Please post your cirriculum vitae for all of us to see. I’m interested in graduate degrees held, where they were obtained, and final GPA.

Unfortunately, as I have observed through first-hand, those with PhD’s tend to be the ones with the oddest ideas that run significantly contrary to what the Church requires and prescribes for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This includes substituting Amazing Grace and Attende Domine for the Penitential Rite, holding silent auctions in the sanctuary (with the bid sheet on the communion rail) and substituting the Gloria with a Christmas carol during Christmas. These have also come up with the innovative idea of reducing the Gospel to a one-act play. Sorry, but, that doesn’t work.

Granted, there are some PhD’s who strive to legitimately follow what the Church requires and prescribes (many folks forget that Pope Benedict holds a PhD–not in liturgy, but, theology and liturgy go hand in hand); however, there are those who have been infected with a creative virus.

Why they just don’t stick to reading the documents instead of adding their own creative spin to things is something beyond my comprehension. Let’s leave the spnning to the Democrats right now. It doesn’t belong in the Church, let alone the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Unfortunately, as I have observed through first-hand, those with PhD’s tend to be the ones with the oddest ideas that run significantly contrary to what the Church requires and prescribes for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This includes substituting Amazing Grace and Attende Domine for the Penitential Rite, holding silent auctions in the sanctuary (with the bid sheet on the communion rail) and substituting the Gloria with a Christmas carol during Christmas. These have also come up with the innovative idea of reducing the Gospel to a one-act play. Sorry, but, that doesn’t work.

Granted, there are some PhD’s who strive to legitimately follow what the Church requires and prescribes (many folks forget that Pope Benedict holds a PhD–not in liturgy, but, theology and liturgy go hand in hand); however, there are those who have been infected with a creative virus.

Why they just don’t stick to reading the documents instead of adding their own creative spin to things is something beyond my comprehension. Let’s leave the spnning to the Democrats right now. It doesn’t belong in the Church, let alone the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

My point was only that someone shouldn’t be mocking and deriding someone else’s education. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that sometimes it’s the more educated people who have the weirder ideas - but in this neck of the woods, the true liturgists (with graduate degrees) are pretty “by the book”.

 

[MusicMan]

Anyone who thinks it’s a good idea is someone who is VERY shallow.

Yes at a very visceral level I can see how it would seem “nice.” It doesn’t take much thought to see that it’s not, however.

I don’t disagree with you. My entire point has been about offering an explanation of why this is occuring, certainly not to justify the practices.