Gospel Sung

[THurifer2]

The Gospel was sung today. I’ve never experienced that before, and I’d rather not experience it again. Does anyone else’s parishes do this?

Well, I Guess you wont be attending mass in St. Peters…

Are you more Catholic than the PoPe? cause the Gospel is sung at his Masses…

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Well, I Guess you wont be attending mass in St. Peters…

Are you more Catholic than the PoPe? cause the Gospel is sung at his Masses…

Look, I’ve explained my reasons for not liking music at Mass. And guess what? I might be in the minority position, but I am still free to believe it without being labeled derisively as thinking that I’m more Catholic than the Pope. There are plenty of people around who didn’t like the liturgical dance and some of the other things at JP2s papal liturgies-partly because it, for all practical purposes, gave their own parishes license to do this, (and btw liturgical dance isn’t wrong in itself either, though it is forbidden in the Latin rite) but they were never labeled “more Catholic than the pope.”

Some of you act as if one can never criticize the church or the pope on ANYTHING. If that were true, why do we have saints like St. Catherine of Siena who do just that?

Further, had I been living during the reigns of Pope John XII or Benedict IX, would it really have been wrong to have been labeled “more Catholic than the pope”?

I can get over the fact that our culture will be obsessed with music, but I’ll keep going to my quiet churches and my low masses. If that makes me less of a Catholic in some people’s eyes, then so be it.

 

[brotherhrolf]

If the choir cannot be understood, then there may be two problems. One is the accoustics of the church. Lily, my cathedral doesn’t have accoustical problems. But then it is not a huge building and has gothic architecture amenable to choral singing and the choir is in the loft where they should be. The second problem may be the choir itself. We expended enormous amounts of time making sure we ennunciate words properly as well as pronouncing words properly.

 

[magnolia_bloom]

My priest has an absolutely beautiful voice, and I can’t wait for the times of the year when he “sings” the Gospel. He sings opening and closing of every daily Mass, but chanting the Gospel is truly special.

 

[brockmac]

Psalm 150
1 1 Hallelujah! 2 Praise God in his holy sanctuary; give praise in the mighty dome of heaven. 2 Give praise for his mighty deeds, praise him for his great majesty. 3 Give praise with blasts upon the horn, praise him with harp and lyre. 4 Give praise with tambourines and dance, praise him with flutes and strings. 5 Give praise with crashing cymbals, praise him with sounding cymbals. 6 Let everything that has breath give praise to the LORD! Hallelujah!

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I love how they chant the petitions / prayers on Good Friday. That’s really beautiful. Any chanting in beautiful in mass.

 

[jmcrae]

I thought not singing the psalms was the norm, and that singing them was an abuse.

Actually, the “norm” is that the entire Mass, except for the homily, is to be sung. There are many classical settings for the Mass (you may have heard of Mozart’s Requiem Mass in D minor), but my personal favourite is Pope Gregory’s setting, and that’s the one that we used this Easter Triduum.

It is a concession to our North American weakness that it is permitted to be spoken, or that parts of it can be spoken rather than sung.

 

[PacoG]

Some traditions are best to be dispensed with.

That might explain why I think the Low Mass is the best we can offer. The High Mass is next, then the Novus Ordo. Is the Mass going to be a time of pure prayer? Then let’s have the Low Mass. Or is it going to be a time of religious instruction? Then let’s move to a Protestant service. Is it going to be an odd mix? Then have the HM or NO.

Honestly, then you really have no idea what the Mass is. The Pontifical High Mass (or the Solemn Mass with the Bishop) in both the Extraordinary and Ordinary Forms is the normative form of the Mass. The Low Mass is only a variant. First, the Bishop has the full gift of Holy Orders. Priests in his diocese hold delegated faculties. So the HM is THE Roman Rite of the Mass. Second, the Mass is our participation in the Heavenly Liturgy. The Mass in heaven includes signing, chanting and incense. Read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. I hate to sound as extreme as some Traditionalists out there; however, if you attack the High Mass, you attack the Mass and the Heavenly Liturgy itself.

Earlier someone stating that the Pope has the chanted Gospel in his Masses. Your response was that St. Catherine of Sienna opposed the Pope in her time. St. Catherine never opposed the Pope on matters of faith and morals and on matters of discipline (which is what the Mass is…a matter of discipline). She opposed the Pope’s continued insistence of staying in Avignon, a political decision of the Pope.

On matters of Liturgy, it is Rome that determines the form of the Liturgy. It is called the ROMAN MISSAL for a reason. We are members of the ROMAN RITE. The Pope is the BISHOP OF ROME. Hence, it is the Pope as Bishop of Rome who determines what is the content of the Roman Rite. Your pronouncements of what the Mass should be borders on disobedience.

Honestly, I read your profile and see that you are a converted Southern Baptist. I think that your prior religion clouds your thinking. First, the Mass is not a matter of personal preference. It is not a “service” in the Protestant sense of the word. It is us participating in the Heavenly Liturgy. It is not a matter of Minister Phil at First Baptist having a quieter service and more Bible reading than Brother Bob at Booger Street Baptist. There is one Mass in the Roman Rite and that is the Rite as determined by Rome. Yes, there are minor variations from parish to parish and from nation to nation. And sadly there is abuse. However, it is one liturgy joined with the liturgies of all the other churches in communion with Rome participating in the Liturgy of Heaven, representing the one eternal sacrifice. That is why Rome tries to insure uniformity so that the unity is even more perfect. Our personal preferences are irrelevant.

Finally, you commented in another place that because society has adopted music as a false religion, the church should banish music from the Liturgy. Your analogy is that if society started worshiping statues again, you’d expect the Church to take out statues. However, that has never been way of the Catholic Church. The Church’s role is to sanctify the world by calling people to conversion. The Church sanctifies the arts by its use of them in worship. The Church has never acted in the way that you wish. The Church had sacred images at the time that the majority of society worshiped statues. The Church worships its God and attempts to replicate the beauty of heaven through the use of space and smells and sounds and through the use of music and the arts.

To follow your argument’s reasoning , the Church should get rid of Communion because food and alcohol have become like a false god. Because smoking has become like a false god to smokers, should we get rid of incense? Should we get rid of the use of holy oils because oil has become like a god in a petroleum obsessed world? These are extremes but so is your anaology.

You seriously are lacking in your faith formation. You should talk to your priest, do some reading and get some guidance in what the Mass is about. The Mass doesn’t exist to satisfy your personal preferences.

I am sorry if I am harsh. However, I have read all these posts and you don’t seem to get it.

*Lord come to my assistance. Make haste to help me, Lord. *

 

[anamchara]

Our younger priest chanted a great deal yesterday which was very lovely. It was tricky when we had to though, at least for me. We chanted the Lords Prayer and I struggled a bit. Having the Gospel sung wouldn’t bother me at all.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Honestly, then you really have no idea what the Mass is. The Pontifical High Mass (or the Solemn Mass with the Bishop) in both the Extraordinary and Ordinary Forms is the normative form of the Mass. The Low Mass is only a variant. First, the Bishop has the full gift of Holy Orders. Priests in his diocese hold delegated faculties. So the HM is THE Roman Rite of the Mass. Second, the Mass is our participation in the Heavenly Liturgy. The Mass in heaven includes signing, chanting and incense. Read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. I hate to sound as extreme as some Traditionalists out there; however, if you attack the High Mass, you attack the Mass and the Heavenly Liturgy itself.

Earlier someone stating that the Pope has the chanted Gospel in his Masses. Your response was that St. Catherine of Sienna opposed the Pope in her time. St. Catherine never opposed the Pope on matters of faith and morals and on matters of discipline (which is what the Mass is…a matter of discipline). She opposed the Pope’s continued insistence of staying in Avignon, a political decision of the Pope.

On matters of Liturgy, it is Rome that determines the form of the Liturgy. It is called the ROMAN MISSAL for a reason. We are members of the ROMAN RITE. The Pope is the BISHOP OF ROME. Hence, it is the Pope as Bishop of Rome who determines what is the content of the Roman Rite. Your pronouncements of what the Mass should be borders on disobedience.

Honestly, I read your profile and see that you are a converted Southern Baptist. I think that your prior religion clouds your thinking. First, the Mass is not a matter of personal preference. It is not a “service” in the Protestant sense of the word. It is us participating in the Heavenly Liturgy. It is not a matter of Minister Phil at First Baptist having a quieter service and more Bible reading than Brother Bob at Booger Street Baptist. There is one Mass in the Roman Rite and that is the Rite as determined by Rome. Yes, there are minor variations from parish to parish and from nation to nation. And sadly there is abuse. However, it is one liturgy joined with the liturgies of all the other churches in communion with Rome participating in the Liturgy of Heaven, representing the one eternal sacrifice. That is why Rome tries to insure uniformity so that the unity is even more perfect. Our personal preferences are irrelevant.

Finally, you commented in another place that because society has adopted music as a false religion, the church should banish music from the Liturgy. Your analogy is that if society started worshiping statues again, you’d expect the Church to take out statues. However, that has never been way of the Catholic Church. The Church’s role is to sanctify the world by calling people to conversion. The Church sanctifies the arts by its use of them in worship. The Church has never acted in the way that you wish. The Church had sacred images at the time that the majority of society worshiped statues. The Church worships its God and attempts to replicate the beauty of heaven through the use of space and smells and sounds and through the use of music and the arts.

To follow your argument’s reasoning , the Church should get rid of Communion because food and alcohol have become like a false god. Because smoking has become like a false god to smokers, should we get rid of incense? Should we get rid of the use of holy oils because oil has become like a god in a petroleum obsessed world? These are extremes but so is your anaology.

You seriously are lacking in your faith formation. You should talk to your priest, do some reading and get some guidance in what the Mass is about. The Mass doesn’t exist to satisfy your personal preferences.

I am sorry if I am harsh. However, I have read all these posts and you don’t seem to get it.

*Lord come to my assistance. Make haste to help me, Lord. *

If you read my posts, you would have read how respect for silence is one of the things that led me to the Church, rather than judging churches based on how good the music is. If you had read my posts, you would have seen that I do not say music* per se *is wrong, but that we need to restore the notion of sacred silence on a wide scale by cutting back or eliminating the music in churches for the time being.

There is nothing contrary to the faith in that.

ABostonCatholic:

That might explain why** I think** the Low Mass is the best we can offer. *
…
Look, I’m not against music per se, but consider that in the culture we live in, at least in America, music is a god.
…
Many people judge the church they go to by how good the music is! In order to attract kids to come to church, we’ve turned Mass into a rock concert. We try to appeal to them with music. In other words, we’re succumbing to the world! We’re serving this false god. Is it that much to ask that the Church say “enough is enough!” and purge our churches of this nonsense and restore Sacred Silence?
…
Like I said, I’m not against music per se. I’m not an aural iconoclast. There is a time to have music as a part of worship, but now is not that time
…
Honest to God, though, one of the reasons I began investigating the Catholic Church was it’s respect for silence, especially during Mass. There might be some music, but nothing excessive like what you get in Protestant services.*

 

[Phemie]

If you read my posts, you would have read how respect for silence is one of the things that led me to the Church, rather than judging churches based on how good the music is. If you had read my posts, you would have seen that I do not say music* per se *is wrong, but that we need to restore the notion of sacred silence on a wide scale by cutting back or eliminating the music in churches for the time being.

There is nothing contrary to the faith in that.

There are only a few places for silence built into the Mass. After any “Let us Pray”; after the 1st and 2nd reading; after the homily and after Communion.

As for singing, again, the norm is for the Ordinary of the Mass to be sung.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

There are only a few places for silence built into the Mass. After any “Let us Pray”; after the 1st and 2nd reading; after the homily and after Communion.

As for singing, again, the norm is for the Ordinary of the Mass to be sung.

Yes, but the church can change the rules. Music is not essential, else a Mass without music would be invalid.

All of you who are jumping on me about this, let me ask you something.

You say that I am in the wrong because music is the norm. Yet Latin is the norm, too, and is the official language of the Church. Vatican II explicitly mandates that the Latin language is to be preserved in the liturgy.

Yet, if someone had come to the forums and said that the Sanctus, Agnus Dei, and other prayers were said in Latin, and they had never experienced it before and would rather not because they were confused, didn’t know the words, etc. would you have accused them of being “more Catholic than the pope” or “not really knowing what the Mass is”? I doubt it. Even if they were forcefully against using Latin since it’s not the language of the people, I still can’t imagine you making such accusations.

 

[jmcrae]

Yet, if someone had come to the forums and said that the Sanctus, Agnus Dei, and other prayers were said in Latin, and they had never experienced it before and would rather not because they were confused, didn’t know the words, etc. would you have accused them of being “more Catholic than the pope” or “not really knowing what the Mass is”? I doubt it. Even if they were forcefully against using Latin since it’s not the language of the people, I still can’t imagine you making such accusations.

Actually, I seem to recall someone just this week getting the sand kicked out of him for complaining because Pope Benedict XVI is planning to say the OF in Latin instead of in English when he comes to visit the United States.

I don’t remember which thread that was, sorry.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Actually, I seem to recall someone just this week getting the sand kicked out of him for complaining because Pope Benedict XVI is planning to say the OF in Latin instead of in English when he comes to visit the United States.

I don’t remember which thread that was, sorry.

 

[Andrewcarey]

it never happened at my Parish before and I never heard our priest sang during Communion prayer but I’ve heard other priest sang a “Communion Prayer” before though, I heard it on Holy Thursday and Easter Vilgil Mass.
Can you tell me on how a Protestant songs started bringing to a Catholic Church ? I know it only goes to Protestant Church like Lutherans, Protestants, etc and not Catholic.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Can you tell me on how a Protestant songs started bringing to a Catholic Church ? I know it only goes to Protestant Church like Lutherans, Protestants, etc and not Catholic.

I do not understand either of those two sentences.

 

[Andrewcarey]

sorry about that, my explaining is retty hard because of my disabilities I have that I was born with.
What I was trying to say is that most of music at my Church is Protestant and they should be playing “Catholic” because our music director think it’s ok to play “protestant hymns” at a Catholic Church for Mass and it’s not ok to play it at Mass and he also refuses to use an organ I mean he did played an organ over St. Bridget’s but at our Church he refuses to play an organ.

I do not understand either of those two sentences.

 

[Phemie]

Yes, but the church can change the rules. Music is not essential, else a Mass without music would be invalid.

Why on earth should it change 2000 years of tradition? Because you don’t like it??

All of you who are jumping on me about this, let me ask you something.

You say that I am in the wrong because music is the norm. Yet Latin is the norm, too, and is the official language of the Church. Vatican II explicitly mandates that the Latin language is to be preserved in the liturgy.

Yet, if someone had come to the forums and said that the Sanctus, Agnus Dei, and other prayers were said in Latin, and they had never experienced it before and would rather not because they were confused, didn’t know the words, etc. would you have accused them of being “more Catholic than the pope” or “not really knowing what the Mass is”? I doubt it. Even if they were forcefully against using Latin since it’s not the language of the people, I still can’t imagine you making such accusations.

Boy, you’re wrong there. I’d be the first to say, “Hey, it’s the official language of the Church, live with it – better yet, learn it.”

 

[ABostonCatholic]

sorry about that, my explaining is retty hard because of my disabilities I have that I was born with.
What I was trying to say is that most of music at my Church is Protestant and they should be playing “Catholic” because our music director think it’s ok to play “protestant hymns” at a Catholic Church for Mass and it’s not ok to play it at Mass and he also refuses to use an organ I mean he did played an organ over St. Bridget’s but at our Church he refuses to play an organ.

Quite all right. I hope I didn’t sound rude there.

Generally speaking, Protestant hymns are allowed if the words are not heretical. But I’m also pretty sure that all music is supposed to be approved by the bishop or bishops conference.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Why on earth should it change 2000 years of tradition? Because you don’t like it??

I’ve already explained it. It’s not just because I like it that way and “thus spake ABostonCatholic.” In short: we live in a noisy society obsessed with music. Few people have silence any more in their lives. If there’s anywhere we need it most, it’s in the Church.

If you don’t agree with my reasons, that’s fine. But do not accuse me of merely wanting to push my preference. Of course, it is my preference (else why would I be pushing it?) but I am not saying these things because it is a mere or arbitrary preference like preferring Pepsi to Coke. Stop accusing me of such nonsense.

Boy, you’re wrong there. I’d be the first to say, "Hey, it’s the official language of the Church, live with it – better yet, learn it.

I prefer Latin, too, but I would be a bit more sympathetic with someone who was confused by it.