Gospels

[Abyssinia]

Regarding the Gospels, is it true that that legends can develop very quickly, particularly in those days? There were no phones, faxes, printing presses etc. Someone could write something a 1000 miles away…like 1 Corinthians and no one is going to travel to Jerusalem ( a huge journey) to check the sources?

 

[Warrenton]

Are you asking whether rumours of St. Paul’s miracles travelled faster, than say, rumours of Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Any given text can be accurate or false. As Catholics we believe Scriptural text has divine inspiration behind it and thus not subject to “false human rumors”.

 

[AntiTheist]

Regarding the Gospels, is it true that that legends can develop very quickly, particularly in those days?

Legeds can develop quickly even today. Consider the false stories that have sprung up around figures like Elvis in the mere decades since he’s been gone. And that’s today, with modern technology and communication abilities.

Imagine a largely pre-literate, pre-technological society that still believes in magic – it’s not exactly surprising that stories of a great moral teacher are going to contain magic.

 

[Abyssinia]

Are you asking whether rumours of St. Paul’s miracles travelled faster, than say, rumours of Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction?

I do not understand what do you mean.

 

[danserr]

reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5207

Here’s a link to a short article that answers your question, I’ll copy and paste a little of it too.
The short answer to your question is that legend does not arise that quickly. While the apostles and other witnesses were alive, this would have prevented the growth of legend and the same would be true while their direct followers were alive. The Roman historian AN Sherwin-White, has shown that even 2 generations are not enough to wipe out the hard core of historical fact and the gospels were all written within that time.

One of the major problems with the legend hypothesis, however, which is almost never addressed by sceptical critics, is that the time between Jesus’s death and the writing of the gospels is just too short for this to happen. This point has been well-explained by A. N. Sherwin-White in his book Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament.2 Professor Sherwin-White is not a theologian; he is a professional historian of times prior to and contemporaneous with Jesus. According to Sherwin-White, the sources for Roman and Greek history are usually biased and removed one or two generations or even centuries from the events they record. Yet, he says, historians reconstruct with confidence the course of Roman and Greek history. For example, the two earliest biographies of Alexander the Great were written by Arrian and Plutarch more than 400 years after Alexander’s death, and yet classical historians still consider them to be trustworthy. The fabulous legends about Alexander the Great did not develop until during the centuries after these two writers. According to Sherwin-White, the writings of Herodotus enable us to determine the rate at which legend accumulates, and the tests show that even two generations is too short a time span to allow legendary tendencies to wipe out the hard core of historical facts. When Professor Sherwin-White turns to the gospels, he states that for the gospels to be legends, the rate of legendary accumulation would have to be “unbelievable.” More generations would be needed.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Imagine a largely pre-literate, pre-technological society that still believes in magic – it’s not exactly surprising that stories of a great moral teacher are going to contain magic.

Is this supposed to be a prooftext against the veracity of the Bible’s theological truth?

 

[larsenl1]

Regarding the Gospels, is it true that that legends can develop very quickly, particularly in those days? There were no phones, faxes, printing presses etc. Someone could write something a 1000 miles away…like 1 Corinthians and no one is going to travel to Jerusalem ( a huge journey) to check the sources?

The first letter from Paul to the new Christian community in Corinth was written while he was living and working in Ephesus and so his fellow apostles traveled by foot from Ephesus to Corinth to deliver the letter.

Paul had been to Jerusalem several times during his travels. I won’t address the legend hypothesis, because someone more scholarly than I has already done so, but I would think that you at least should have your facts straight about Paul’s journeys. A simple google search will give you scholarly sources if you don’t have a map in the back of your bible (assuming you cracked the bible open).

Also, your statement appears to address the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, yet for your example you use a letter from Paul…not considered as a Gospel, but considered as books in the canon of the New Testament.

I recommend reading the book Paul from Tarsus if you want to pursue a study of how he spread the gospel.

 

[larsenl1]

Imagine a largely pre-literate, pre-technological society that still believes in magic – it’s not exactly surprising that stories of a great moral teacher are going to contain magic.

The people of the first century were well educated. True, many people were not taught the skill of reading and writing, however, it was an established practice to listen to a public orator. The Gospels and even the Torah and Septuagenit were meant to be proclaimed.

This means to be spoken aloud to a gathering of people.

I don’t think it is fair to characterize the Pharisees and the Rabbis and the people who attended worship at the Temple as pre-literate.

The Roman Empire was highly technological with water pumps, sewage systems, heating, transportation, weapons. The lack of a flat screen television does not mean they were not civilized. Cruel, yes, organized and well educated, yes. Unfortunately education does not automatically equal nice.

 

[Warrenton]

I do not understand what do you mean.

Greetings! I mean that people are as credulous now as they were then, just perhaps about different things. Maybe people then were more ready to believe that someone healed a leper, but I think if you told the average informed first century Athenian that some third rate country had an army capable of destroying great Rome itself hidden under a sand dune, he would not have believed it.

Some of the so-called smartest people in the 21st century believed just such a story, when Colin Powell told it!

To the best of my knowledge, Rome never sent an army to attack an army that wasn’t even there.

All of which is not to build up the Romans or tear down the modern world, but merely to illustrate the point that people remain what they are, lo these many years.

 

[Warrenton]

Legeds can develop quickly even today. .

Consider how many people believe in martians - and you have to be educated to believe in such a thing!

How many of the “smartest” people believed Bernie Madoff? They believed the that the market had reaced a state of perfection such that profits could be guaranteed ad infinitum, because some expert wrote it in the Wall Street Journal. They are suing old Bernie now (there is evidence in the credulous belief in another legend for you!), but the fact is they believed something that is not even a legend. They believed in a myth.

Tibullus said it a time long past: Credulous hope supports our life, and always says tomorrow will be better.

 

[Glorthac]

Regarding the Gospels, is it true that that legends can develop very quickly, particularly in those days? There were no phones, faxes, printing presses etc. Someone could write something a 1000 miles away…like 1 Corinthians and no one is going to travel to Jerusalem ( a huge journey) to check the sources?

In case you’re still reading this, I did some research.

First of all, because the Romans conquered the entire area around the Mediteranean Sea, during the 1st Century it was called the ‘Roman lake’. And because they owned the whole sea, there were no pirates, so inter-city commerce was very fast.

Here’s a website that shows how long it took to travel by sea back then:
csun.edu/~hcfll004/travel2.html

Notice that for every 100 miles, it took only 1 day. Since the distance between Jerusalem and Corinth is about 860 miles, it would take only 9 days. And since, for Christians, Jerusalem is such a holy city, I see no reason why the Christians wouldn’t take a mere 9 day pilgrimage to Jerusalem and meet the Apostles themselves.