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Lee1
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We are warned against this sin, can it have such dire consequences?
(No names please.
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(No names please.
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ChristMyLife
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Yes, gossip is a grave sin rooted in pride, envy, and wrath (three of the seven capital vices).
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PetraG
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What do you mean by gossip? I would say, āTalking about a person not present in a way you would not talk about them if they were present to hear what youāre saying.ā
That means you are saying nasty things that you would not say to the face of the person youāre talking about, which makes you guilty of duplicity, an offense against charity that sows distrust. It means you are passing rumors without being very clear that it is a rumor that might not be true, which is an offense against the truth. It can mean you are breaking confidences, which is a betrayal of trust. It means you are saying things that would embarrass you if they were widely heardāand why would they embarrass you? Because the statements lack truth, charity or both.
I would not hair-split over whether gossip is a serious sin or not, because of course it depends on how far the speaker and listeners have strayed from legitimate sharing about the news of common acquaintances.
I remember two women being remembered at their funerals. One was blunt, but the other was not. Of the first one, they said, āShe never said anything behind your back that she would not say to your face.ā It was true. People winced at her honesty sometimes, she probably went over the line of charity, but they trusted her.
Of the second, however, people said this: āThe worst thing you could ever say about anyone was that you asked X about them, and she had nothing to say.ā If she had nothing positive to say about you, that spoke volumes about you. She had that much charity but also that much integrity. If it wasnāt nice, she wouldnāt say it, but if it wasnāt true, she wouldnāt say it, either. Therefore, if she had nothing nice to say about you, you were in a bad state, and no more needed to be said.
I hope that by the time I die, Iām in one camp or the other, but I donāt think Iām there yet.
The consequence of gossip is that we do not trust each other as much as people could trust those two women. We think ill of each other without good reason. We donāt solve problems with each other out in the open, but carry out covert attacks, attacks that people suffer from and have no way to answer or defend themselves from. Think of how much better you would feel, if you knew that everyone was like those two womenāthat either theyād say what was bothering them to your face or else they wouldnāt say it at all.
That means you are saying nasty things that you would not say to the face of the person youāre talking about, which makes you guilty of duplicity, an offense against charity that sows distrust. It means you are passing rumors without being very clear that it is a rumor that might not be true, which is an offense against the truth. It can mean you are breaking confidences, which is a betrayal of trust. It means you are saying things that would embarrass you if they were widely heardāand why would they embarrass you? Because the statements lack truth, charity or both.
I would not hair-split over whether gossip is a serious sin or not, because of course it depends on how far the speaker and listeners have strayed from legitimate sharing about the news of common acquaintances.
I remember two women being remembered at their funerals. One was blunt, but the other was not. Of the first one, they said, āShe never said anything behind your back that she would not say to your face.ā It was true. People winced at her honesty sometimes, she probably went over the line of charity, but they trusted her.
Of the second, however, people said this: āThe worst thing you could ever say about anyone was that you asked X about them, and she had nothing to say.ā If she had nothing positive to say about you, that spoke volumes about you. She had that much charity but also that much integrity. If it wasnāt nice, she wouldnāt say it, but if it wasnāt true, she wouldnāt say it, either. Therefore, if she had nothing nice to say about you, you were in a bad state, and no more needed to be said.
I hope that by the time I die, Iām in one camp or the other, but I donāt think Iām there yet.
The consequence of gossip is that we do not trust each other as much as people could trust those two women. We think ill of each other without good reason. We donāt solve problems with each other out in the open, but carry out covert attacks, attacks that people suffer from and have no way to answer or defend themselves from. Think of how much better you would feel, if you knew that everyone was like those two womenāthat either theyād say what was bothering them to your face or else they wouldnāt say it at all.
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Mtatum1958
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Bad in what way? It can destroy a persons reputation, make them subject to ridicule, and hurt relationships among other things. Would you want to be responsible. It can have envy, wrath, or even vainglory at its root.
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Irishmom2
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Well, I heard that Leeā¦Oops! 
It can be pretty bad, and it can be difficult to overcome as a habit unless you really think before you open your mouth. Even if something is true doesnāt mean it needs to be repeated.
It can be pretty bad, and it can be difficult to overcome as a habit unless you really think before you open your mouth. Even if something is true doesnāt mean it needs to be repeated.
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TheLittleLady
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Did you know that āgossipā is not mentioned in the Catechism?
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2477.htm
Sometimes we confused these sins with āgossipā:
2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2477.htm
Sometimes we confused these sins with āgossipā:
2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
- of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses anotherās faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
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Lee1
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I had occasion today to divulge a few things that I knew about an elderly friend to another mutual friend because she was concerned about him. I told the truth and I told the minimum necessary to help her to understand the other friends current mindset.
I asked myself during this conversation if I was gossiping and I thought not. But after I left her company I couldnāt help feeling that Iād gossiped.
Actually I did mention that in my experience his driving was becoming a little dangerous, with which she agreed.
Overall the object of the exercise was to somehow safeguard the gentleman and so we were sharing information in a way in order that we might help him in future.
I asked myself during this conversation if I was gossiping and I thought not. But after I left her company I couldnāt help feeling that Iād gossiped.
Actually I did mention that in my experience his driving was becoming a little dangerous, with which she agreed.
Overall the object of the exercise was to somehow safeguard the gentleman and so we were sharing information in a way in order that we might help him in future.
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Irishmom2
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My goal is to be a little like both of those women. It depends on the situation and who it concerns.
Family gets the totally honest style, everyone else, I would try to keep my mouth shut. But its hard sometimes.
Family gets the totally honest style, everyone else, I would try to keep my mouth shut. But its hard sometimes.
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PetraG
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This depends a bit on the person you are talking about. Did you answer in the way that she would want you to answer? Imagine that someone had asked her a question, but she could not answer for herself and you had to answer. Did you say what she would have said, whether that is āshe appreciates your concern but she would rather not sayā or āactually, she has problem X and she would welcome your help, yes.ā
Not all talk about third parties behind their backs is harmful or amounts to gossip. If you want to respect the person, however, you share what you would share with them standing right there. If that means you say what they donāt want you to say because it is in their best interest to say it, that is not gossipā¦although, if they understand that you will not tell anyone and you do, the way of integrity says that you tell them, āSo and so asked about you, and I told them X.ā You donāt carry on covert information-sharing except to thwart someone who means to harm someone else. (In that case, they will find out in the end, and it is no offense against the truth but rather thwarting their sneaky intentionsā¦)
The case of an elderly person who needs to quit driving is an example. They donāt have a right to hide the danger they pose to others. They may want to keep that private, but they donāt have that right. On a good day, weād have the courage to say that in front of them, and do a group āinterventionā limiting or eliminating their driving.
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Lee1
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Yes, I think Iām on the right side of okay, thank you.
The driving aspect is important and through our discussion I learned that the elderly gentleman has recently stopped driving long distances and night driving, though he did a two mile drive recently. He should probably be told that he might hang up his driving gloves ideally.
The driving aspect is important and through our discussion I learned that the elderly gentleman has recently stopped driving long distances and night driving, though he did a two mile drive recently. He should probably be told that he might hang up his driving gloves ideally.
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lilypadrees
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Gossip can and does ruin reputations.
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PetraG
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Hereās a meditation by Pope:
http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...francesco-cotidie_20130902_threat-gossip.html
http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...francesco-cotidie_20130902_threat-gossip.html
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Lee1
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I agree of course.
Sometimes people seem to drag you in to gossip and it takes a steely determination to avoid the temptation to join in. One thing I try to remember is that God is my witness, once you have that thought it helps you to stay silent. Having said that I usually just smile and try to move on but even a smile can be taken as tacit agreement.
Sometimes people seem to drag you in to gossip and it takes a steely determination to avoid the temptation to join in. One thing I try to remember is that God is my witness, once you have that thought it helps you to stay silent. Having said that I usually just smile and try to move on but even a smile can be taken as tacit agreement.
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PetraG
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You might look locally for an AARP program called 55 Alive. It is a driving refresher course for seniors that gives them specific strategies for avoiding collisions even as they continue driving. Avoiding driving when visibility is poor and charting trips so as to avoid difficult turns and bad intersections are included. Someone who has directly witnessed poor driving on his part or that he has talked to about his poor driving decisions ought to be the one to talk to him, though, not someone (other than a family member) who got a 2nd-hand report.
What you probably cannot do is to tell him to hang up the driving gloves yourselves. Look for that to backfire, unless you are a family member in a position to literally take the keys or to make a report to his physician. In many states (I do not know how many), you are allowed to make anonymous reports to the stateās department of motor vehicles. This is in the interest of public welfare, there is an investigation rather than an automatic suspension of driving privileges, and it does not constitute gossip. It is, rather, a way to allow people to tell a hard truth that needs to be told without unfair social retaliation from the person trying to hide (or deny to themselves) that they had become an unsafe driver.
No, I donāt think it is gossip when your friends compare notes because they are concerned that you need some kind of an intervention. By the ādo unto othersā rule, we ought to want our friends to do that for us, rather than āminding their own businessā and leaving us to get into a serious collision that could cause injury or even death.
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Lee1
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He does wear glasses but I noticed when he gave me a lift recently that his awareness is lacking, he failed to check for other vehicles and we almost collided with another car. About a year ago he had a minor accident in town.
Now I feel like Iām gossiping again!
(Iām in the UK but I take your point.)
Now I feel like Iām gossiping again!
(Iām in the UK but I take your point.)
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PetraG
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Consulting with other people about whether a driver is a danger to other people on the road isnāt gossip unless you are making personal judgments about him (or his family) but making no use of your conversation to make anyone safer. The opposite attitude is to put yourself in his position and make a plan about what to do or not do in the interest of balancing his independence with everyoneās safety (including hisāelderly people who break bones or suffer serious bruising do not do well). That is not being a busybody, per se.
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Rhubarb
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otrrl
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P. Francis has stated that gossip is the mildest form of murder
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Mary888
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Instead of talking to a 3rd party you should yalk with him directly. And pray for him. And remember we are not owners of Godās plan for others and many times well intended gossipping leads to the obbject of such behavior in a lonely, abused position. A silent absent witness of himself.
Love is respect. There is no love without respect.
You said he is your friend. Talk to him directly.
Love is respect. There is no love without respect.
You said he is your friend. Talk to him directly.
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Lee1
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I understand your point of view.
He is an elderly man and has recently changed his behaviour in a number of ways and it has come to light through my conversation with a mutual friend who also cares for him. Had we not chatted neither of us would have been so aware that thereās may be a problem.
Youāre right of course, I may try to have a discussion with him but he is a very quiet man and not particularly forthcoming.
This post is about gossip generally, my divulging a current example was mostly to help along the discussion.
Thank you.
He is an elderly man and has recently changed his behaviour in a number of ways and it has come to light through my conversation with a mutual friend who also cares for him. Had we not chatted neither of us would have been so aware that thereās may be a problem.
Youāre right of course, I may try to have a discussion with him but he is a very quiet man and not particularly forthcoming.
This post is about gossip generally, my divulging a current example was mostly to help along the discussion.
Thank you.
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