Gossip

[Kensho]

I hope I’m posting this question in the right place.

I know that gossip is a sin, but what exactly is it? How does one differentiate actual gossip from any other kind of casual talk about someone who is not present?

 

[bmullins]

Gossip is idle talk or rumour, especially about the personal or private affairs of others. It forms one of the oldest and most common means of sharing (unproven) facts and views, but also has a reputation for the introduction of errors and other variations into the information transmitted. …

The Jewish people tend to hold that talking about someone when they aren’t present at all should be avoided. That’s how I attempt to live as well, unless it’s something I have to discuss. If my boss for instance wants to know how someone is performing, or my wife asks me how the kids did at school. I try to avoid idle talk about the neighbor for instance. If it’s something you don’t know for sure, or something you don’t know that they specifically want others to know about… then don’t mention it.

There is a big difference in telling one neighbor who you know cares greatly for the other neighbor that neighbor A had heart surgery, and standing in your yard telling neighbor B that someone told you neighbor A’s daughter was pregnant.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Jesus says not to slander people. So make sure its nice talk

 

[PatriceA]

My rule of thumb: if the person that is the subject of the conversation would be humiliated or angered by the talk, then its time to shut the conversation down.

 

[Danuska]

A preacher that I really like a lot once shared this story that is ascribed to Socrates - though some say he is not really the author. But that is not really important - I like it anyway.

SOCRATES’ TRIPLE FILTER TEST

In ancient Greece, Socrates was reputed to hold knowledge in high
esteem. One day an acquaintance met the great philosopher and said,
“Socrates, do you know what I just heard about your friend?”
“Hold on a minute,” Socrates replied. “Before telling me anything I’d
like
you to pass a little test.
It’s called the Triple Filter Test.”
“Triple filter?”
“That’s right,” Socrates continued. “Before you talk to me about my
friend, it might be a good idea to take a moment and filter what you’re
going to say. The first filter is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure
that what you are about to tell me is true?”
“No,” the man said, “actually I just heard about it and…”
“All right,” said Socrates. “So you don’t really know if it’s true or
not. Now let’s try the second filter, the filter of Goodness. Is what
you are about to tell me about my friend something good?”
“No, on the contrary…”
“So,” Socrates continued, “you want to tell me something bad about him,
but you’re not certain it’s true. You may still pass the test though,
because there’s one filter left: the filter of Usefulness. Is what you
want to tell me about my friend going to be useful to me?”
“No, not really.”
“Well,” concluded Socrates, “if what you want to tell me is neither
true nor good nor even useful, why tell it to me at all?”

 

[Gertabelle]

I once took part in a course in which we made an agreement not to engage in gossip for the length of the course (about 4 months I think).

We defined gossip as any words about another person that might deflate someone else’s opinion of that person.

In a role-playing exercise at the beginning of this leadership course, we discovered that even some things we thought would be good to share turned out negative in certain contexts. It took the full four months of practicing “no gossip” to really get comfortable with it. And I still have to be careful to follow that practice all the time at work – gossip is everywhere!

God bless you, and may you grow in virtue!

Gertie

 

[Kensho]

Let’s talk about the “usefulness” filter. Presumably we would all agree that there are times when it is useful, even necessary, to share information about a person that would infuriate him. But deciding whether this is the case can, I think, be troublesome because the truth is most of us sometimes get a sort of sickly sense of schadenfreude in sharing nasty information about other people. For example, when we “vent”. We feel as though we “need” to get something off our chest, but “can’t” talk to the person the venting is about. Is venting, in fact, ever okay, or is it something we modern people have decided it’s fine because it makes us feel better? If it is ever okay, then under what circumstances?

When is it legitimate to share details of someone’s bad history in order to protect another person? An extreme example I think we would all agree to is letting a parent know that she shouldn’t let someone you know to be a child abuser be around her children. But are there other, less extreme instances in which it is all right?

Also, we usually discuss all sorts of things with our intimates in which personal information about others may be shared but the intention is not malicious. For example, a husband and wife presumably tell each other about their childhoods, and the bad behavior of their parents may be part of some of those conversations. Would it be wrong even to tell spouses and close friends something like, “My mother abused me” or “My father always favored my brother”?

 

[wendy_w]

This is difficult, because in families when you see that someone keeps going down the wrong path I think it is easy to “discuss” this within the family circle. That being said
I really have been trying to distance myself from these conversations. However I have
noticed it is easy to get sucked back in.

 

[Kensho]

Those family discussions, in my experience, are usually a bad idea. Generally speaking, if you have a complaint about someone, you should probably speak directly to him. Otherwise, even those supposedly well-intentioned family discussions end up being about the satisfaction of the “good” family members in tearing up the absent scapegoat. At least that is what I have seen.

Last night I went to my first Al-Anon meeting and listened to several people talk about their family members. The difference between the way these people talked and the way I have heard people talk about “problem” friends and family in the past was illuminating. They spoke with love and restraint and the focus was on their own difficulties in learning to deal with these people. They were talking because they wanted to fix themselves, not because they wanted to complain about someone else.

 

[wendy_w]

I think that is a good point, if you can speak with love then it is probably ok.
If it just turns into a grip session then try to be the bigger person and say that this conversation needs to stop. Sounds like you found a good al-a-non group that sticks
with the program. I have learned thru the years that I can only fix myself with Gods grace and when I fall into any sin (gossip included) I ask him to forgive me and I pray
for that person. But being human I fall many times. P.S. As to sharing things with a spouse I think that is part of good commucation, but it to does not have to turn ugly.
My Mom is a recovering alcohalic and my husband seen first hand some of what she did. I’m very proud of my mom( she has been sober for 18 years) but my husband was my rock at some of the difficult times with her.

 

[wendy_w]

Sorry to keep going on but I did tell my children about their Grandma’s past not to humilate her but so they would know that they are at risk for this addiction. My Mom has been very honest with them too as this is rampid in our family tree. So I guess there is not a black and white answer to your questions. Very good topic though.

 

[Kensho]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I am very interested in all points of view, particularly with specific examples of what is okay versus what is not okay.

I have never thought of myself as a gossip, but recently have had to face the fact that whether I call my speech gossip or not, I have a serious problem with what I guess you could call sins of the tongue. I tend to think I’m okay because I don’t tell other people’s secrets or talk badly about them outside of a few very close relationships (i.e. with my husband, mother, and a couple of good friends) but I do say ugly things when I am angry at someone and I think I’ve indulged in speculation that is impermissable. I don’t buy the “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything” argument, though, since silence can allow people who behave badly to continue doing so.

 

[Holly3278]

I can’t remember the terms that defines it but there is some terminology in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which talks about gossip.

 

[PatriceA]

Let’s talk about the “usefulness” filter. Presumably we would all agree that there are times when it is useful, even necessary, to share information about a person that would infuriate him. But deciding whether this is the case can, I think, be troublesome because the truth is most of us sometimes get a sort of sickly sense of schadenfreude in sharing nasty information about other people. For example, when we “vent”. We feel as though we “need” to get something off our chest, but “can’t” talk to the person the venting is about. Is venting, in fact, ever okay, or is it something we modern people have decided it’s fine because it makes us feel better? If it is ever okay, then under what circumstances?

When is it legitimate to share details of someone’s bad history in order to protect another person? An extreme example I think we would all agree to is letting a parent know that she shouldn’t let someone you know to be a child abuser be around her children. But are there other, less extreme instances in which it is all right?

Also, we usually discuss all sorts of things with our intimates in which personal information about others may be shared but the intention is not malicious. For example, a husband and wife presumably tell each other about their childhoods, and the bad behavior of their parents may be part of some of those conversations. Would it be wrong even to tell spouses and close friends something like, “My mother abused me” or “My father always favored my brother”?

None of this though in my definition is gossip. When I said before that anything that would humiliate or cause anger in the other person would be gossip, I was referring to any idle conversation between friends, when the conversation is mainly for entertainment purposes only. There is no end purpose to the conversation, you’re just filling up the conversation about someone that isn’t present, you don’t care for that person’s welfare or the welfare of anybody that may be in contact with that person.

Telling our spouses details about our childhood, especially if it was abusive is not gossip as well. That information needs to be disclosed to each other because results from any kind of childhood abuse can surface in adult relationships and certainly parents should think twice about exposing any children to an abusive grandparent. Any detail that would affect the marriage or the welfare of any future children should be revealed. Not gossip.

As far as venting goes, I personally try to vent about the situation, not the actual person and I only vent to my husband. I don’t know if others would consider that gossip, but my person I vent to is not going to repeat what I say and will hold me accountable if he thinks I’ve gone too far or I can’t see my role in the very situation that has upset me.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I am very interested in all points of view, particularly with specific examples of what is okay versus what is not okay.

One difference between information sharing and gossip is our intentions.

For example:

Yesterday one of my colleagues, Sue, was injured at work. I emailed a mutual friend, Mary, with this information. My reason for doing so was so Mary could keep Sue in her thoughts and prayers. This, I think, is not gossip. If my intention for telling Mary about Sue’s injuries was to suggest that Sue was inept or incompetent or to engage in Schadenfreude, that - I think - would have been gossip.

Luna