Got into dicussion but turned to one sided argument:

[On_my_way]

On Sunday, I went to Mass and then went to help my brother in-law move. While we was eating dinner I was speaking to his wifes mother who is Catholic. We had our own conversation and My brother in-law joined us. We all staterd talking and all of a sudden he said that all Catholics are brain-washed. He also stated that, I thought I was above him and was better than him.

Is that how you thank someone who just helped you move and gave up my weekend of rest because I just got finish moving my family and could have really used the rest.

It really bothered me and I don’t know if I will be able to talk to him again, because if there is one thing I don’t like it is ungreatfull people. I told my wife, his sister, that they could use my truck to move but they cannot use my body. Was I wrong for saying this?

It just hurts when you do something for someone and they slap you in the face like that. Just thought I would share with you guys what has been on my mind since Sunday.

I think I should have posted it somewhere else but didn’t know where.

 

[YinYangMom]

On my way:

On Sunday, I went to Mass and then went to help my brother in-law move. While we was eating dinner I was speaking to his wifes mother who is Catholic. We had our own conversation and My brother in-law joined us. We all staterd talking and all of a sudden he said that all Catholics are brain-washed. He also stated that, I thought I was above him and was better than him.

Is that how you thank someone who just helped you move and gave up my weekend of rest because I just got finish moving my family and could have really used the rest.

It really bothered me and I don’t know if I will be able to talk to him again, because if there is one thing I don’t like it is ungreatfull people. I told my wife, his sister, that they could use my truck to move but they cannot use my body. Was I wrong for saying this?

It just hurts when you do something for someone and they slap you in the face like that. Just thought I would share with you guys what has been on my mind since Sunday.

I think I should have posted it somewhere else but didn’t know where.

First and foremost, do not do good deeds expecting anything in return. That’s not the point. You help because the opportunity is there and it is what you are called to do. If the person receiving your help thanks you, then you are fortunate. If they do not, you are still blessed for doing the deed at all - providing it was a gift from your heart.

My husband often grumbles at what he considers ‘bad manners’ - which is basically what you’re saying here. Yes, in society we are taught to expect the most basic of courtesies, but honestly, a lot of people aren’t raised that way anymore.

I find with my husband though, that he’s more upset that he put out all this effort ‘for nothing’…but I remind him if he only said yes because he wanted something in return, then he shouldn’t have said yes.

It’s kind of like loaning money. Never, ever, loan money to people. It’s better to give it to them. When one loans money the debt forever hangs in the relationship often brewing into tension. If the person pays you the money back someday, be surprised and thankful. If they don’t pay you pack, you weren’t expecting it so that means you had the money to spare - you didn’t need it yourself so that is precisely what Christ expected from you.

The true Christian thing to do is to continue speaking with your in-law charitably and kindly so that he can see by your actions that you take your faith seriously.

Also, pray for him.

 

[On_my_way]

I don’t think that I stated that I wanted anything in return. So if I do something for someone, which is always from my heart, and that person is not greatfull I should be okay with it.

 

[YinYangMom]

On my way:

I don’t think that I stated that I wanted anything in return. So if I do something for someone, which is always from my heart, and that person is not greatfull I should be okay with it.

Well you seemed to state you expected to be treated better from the in-law specifically because you had just helped him out at great time and energy expense from you.

Yes, you should be ok with it.
It shouldn’t matter to you whether or not the receiver is grateful.
You do the deed because you can.

 

[On_my_way]

YinYangMom:

Well you seemed to state you expected to be treated better from the in-law specifically because you had just helped him out at great time and energy expense from you.

Yes, you should be ok with it.
It shouldn’t matter to you whether or not the receiver is grateful.
You do the deed because you can.

I understand what you are saying. But a simple thank you would be good right? I didn’t even get that. Is expecting a thank you from somebody wrong? Do I come off being selfish? When someone helps me with anything, I always tell them thank you.

So if you (YYM) helped me move and I said those things to you, you would be cool with it?

 

[springbreeze]

On my way:

I understand what you are saying. But a simple thank you would be good right? I didn’t even get that. Is expecting a thank you from somebody wrong? Do I come off being selfish? When someone helps me with anything, I always tell them thank you.

So if you (YYM) helped me move and I said those things to you, you would be cool with it?

Dear friend

You have a right to be angry at what happened. The lack of a thank you if it wasn’t a forgetful over-sight, was rude of your relative, but that is small thing to overlook and you should overlook that. What your relative said about your faith was an insult to you and to your faith. I always think when people make comments like that that they really have no concept of what they are saying, by that I mean is that they open mouth and do not engage brain and furthermore have little or no concept of spiritual things such as faith and/or the Catholic Church.

If they truly knew what the Catholic Church is, they too would be in love with it and in love with Christ Jesus as you are.

Forgive your relative for your sake, for their sake and for all the families sake, for the sake of peace and for God’s good name’s sake.

Little sufferings like this that you have endured make us grow in virtue, to be patient with people and tolerant of their faults and failings. We must be kind to the sinner and be merciful if we are to obtain it ourselves.

Try to look upon all of your good deeds as a direct work for Christ Jesus, because friend, that is exactly what it is. ‘If you did not do this for the least of these, you did not do it for Me.’ Help your relative to move and your good example of kindness and forgiveness will say more about your faith than any words can.

As Mother Teresa said:

---

Mother Teresa’s Prayer.

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; …….Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; ….Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; ….Succeed anyway. If you are honest and frank, some people may cheat you;……Be honest and frank anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; …. Build anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;….Be happy anyway. The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; ….Do good anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;…….Give the world the best you’ve got anyway. You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; It was never between you and them anyway.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Help your relative, be prudent that no person use you and manipulate you nor treat you so badly as to adversely affect you to any great degree. But in this instance forgive the foolish mouth of your relative and help them. This says so much about the great Catholic you are!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[byzmelkite]

On my way:

I don’t think that I stated that I wanted anything in return. So if I do something for someone, which is always from my heart, and that person is not greatfull I should be okay with it.

Our Lord said, “Blessed are you when men persecute you…”

Consider the persecution you receive an opportunity to suffer as a good soldier of Christ .

 

[AlanFromWichita]

On my way:

I understand what you are saying. But a simple thank you would be good right? I didn’t even get that. Is expecting a thank you from somebody wrong? Do I come off being selfish? When someone helps me with anything, I always tell them thank you.

So if you (YYM) helped me move and I said those things to you, you would be cool with it?

First, I think YinYangMom gave you the best answer for your own good, in that yes you should get over it for your own benefit not his.

If that’s where you want to go depends on what level of faith you want to use to discuss the problem.

Working from the position of social manners, the person was very rude. That does not give you an excuse to be rude back, according to Miss Manners. Your personal opinion on his behavior is beyond manners, because manners only applies to opinions that are made known to others. Manners are by definition superficial, because they provide a standard interface protocol for two people who may have different beliefs.

A neighbor and friend of my wife’s, who then was a witness in our wedding, was a baroness from Denmark. She talked about having lunch with the likes of Hitler. We asked what Hitler was lilke personally and she said she didn’t know. Everybody uses proper manners and nobody really knows what lies underneath.

Working from a position of does your brother have a “heart” problem, the answer is probably yes. He doesn’t know how to be thankful. To know whether his comments about Catholics were an insult to you is less clear.

Finally, YinYangMom’s answer applies if you’re asking what is the best spiritual course for you to take.

So if I helped you move and you did not thank me, then I revert to my faith for thanks. Remember when I am thanked on earth, then I no longer “am down one” so I don’t need to be consoled for it in heaven. When I do good works with no thanks, and no expectations of return, etc, then I am denying my very self (selfishness) and helping somebody who is maybe about as grateful for what you did as the mob was grateful for what Jesus did.

Verbal thanks adds to your worldly life, and may add to your spiritual life or give you pride and self-satisfaction. Doing favors for those who can’t or don’t reward you with so much as acknowledgement only hurts your worldly life if it tweaks your own false self centers of power/control, affection/esteem, or security/comfort, supplying energy to your selfish emotions. It cannot hurt you spiritually (see Rom 8) and “chalks one up” for you in heaven. This way you lose temporal gratification and gain eternal.

Please don’t think I mean “selfish” to be an insult. I mean relating to the false self, that is the emotional infrastructure that one associates with his personality, that is built on original sin and fed by society. In other words, we all have it. Actively nursing a hope for a “thank you” and committing adultery are both acts of the false self and therefore “selfish” but one is considered “reasonable” and the other “over the line” by most.

We’re all selfish. It’s a matter of how well you deny it, and how well you cover it against others – for example with manners. If your brother had even decent manners, he would have hidden his selfishness and you would think he’s fine. I guess it’s a tossup. No manners, but at least you know exactly how he feels. One could hardly blame you for using that as a basis for helping him further, but ideally only to the extent you think it will help him spiritually or not, and not whether you are giving up on him because helping him is a thankless task.

Alan

 

[On_my_way]

Wichita. How was I rude to him, he was the one doing the arguing not me. Was I rude, for letting them still use my truck as we chat on line. They still have my truck. A friend of mine drove me to work today. And I am very thankfull for that. I know I need to get over it for my sake, I understand that part and the part that I should give and not recieve. I have forgiven him for what he said because of my Faith, but it is easier said than done. I may talk to him again but it may take some time before it happens.

How does it only hurt my worldly life, for it is my spiritual life that drives me to help others in need. If Jesus was not in my heart, I would not have help them at all. With that being said, my inner life is just as hurt by his actions as my outside life.

 

[newf]

On my way…you said in your first post that this person said about you " He also stated that, I thought I was above him and was better than him".

I think he is right…you are above him…and you are better than him. You seem like a decent person who was trying to help out and were completely unappreciated.

I think you might like to re-read the post from springbreeze with Mother Theresa’s quote…it’s really good, and it applies to neat people like you.

I know this hurts, it hurts like heck. But hang in there…you did what was good and kind…a very nice reflection of you.

 

[ElizabethJoy]

Ouch! That’s realllly stinko! I’m sorry you had such a tirade.

I think you handled it a lot better than I could have done.

Very painful to have someone disrespect your gift to them like that.

I hope that you’ll be able to put it aside pretty quickly for your own sake, though.

Elizabeth

 

[AlanFromWichita]

On my way:

Wichita. How was I rude to him, he was the one doing the arguing not me. Was I rude, for letting them still use my truck as we chat on line. They still have my truck. A friend of mine drove me to work today. And I am very thankfull for that. I know I need to get over it for my sake, I understand that part and the part that I should give and not recieve. I have forgiven him for what he said because of my Faith, but it is easier said than done. I may talk to him again but it may take some time before it happens.

How does it only hurt my worldly life, for it is my spiritual life that drives me to help others in need. If Jesus was not in my heart, I would not have help them at all. With that being said, my inner life is just as hurt by his actions as my outside life.

You weren’t rude. You were exactly right. You gave generously and got no recognition from the world that would take you for granted.

He was rude. I’m just saying that return rudeness is not a correct option, according to Miss Manners, not that you are guilty of it.

How does it only hurt my worldly life, for it is my spiritual life that drives me to help others in need. If Jesus was not in my heart, I would not have help them at all. With that being said, my inner life is just as hurt by his actions as my outside life.

You are right that if it weren’t for the love of Christ that is in you, you would not bother dealing with ungrateful oafs, but would shoo them away instead of helping them. Even ungrateful oafs have needs, and you never know they might wake up.

You inner life, though need not be hurt. This is what the Good News is really all about, as far as applied to healing on earth. When you do good for God in the world, and the world does not appreciate you, then you are blessed. It doesn’t feel like it because the human feelings of hurt are connected to your “I’m being used” trigger. Clearly you are being used, and your dignity as a human being is lowered. That is a fact but it cannot separate you from the love (and I say peace) of Christ. Do not worry for anything, says Christ. Trust the Church wins in the end and the Holy Spirit can get done what needs to be. Doing good work for God’s sake and receiving no earthly rewards builds you treasure in heaven and help you learn what unselfishness is like when directly confronted with severe selfishness. You are on the “selfless” side of the “selfish/selfless” scale, and he is on the other end.

In other words, the more thankless work you do on earth, the more you are blessed in heaven. In faith, continue to minister to him as you can, and let the Holy Spirit open his eyes when the time comes.

Alan

 

[YinYangMom]

On my way:

I understand what you are saying. But a simple thank you would be good right? I didn’t even get that. Is expecting a thank you from somebody wrong? Do I come off being selfish? When someone helps me with anything, I always tell them thank you.

So if you (YYM) helped me move and I said those things to you, you would be cool with it?

Yeah, it’s annoying, I know (or so my hubby says) but I honestly, honestly do not expect even a thank you anymore.

Yes, you were entitled to one.
But people have not been raised to say please and thank you since the 80s so when I come across someone who actually has manners it’s very refreshing.

I taught my kids to say please and thank you and to open doors for others, you know, the basics. Kids their age think they’re odd, but the adults around them are really impressed. Sad, but that’s the way it is.

You are right to expect a thank you, but you are not right to be upset when you don’t get one. Disappointed, yes. Sad, yes. Does that help?

The tricky part is what to do if that same person ever asks for your help again…If you decline because he didn’t say thanks this time, then that isn’t really being charitable. If you say yes, then just know you’re doing it because you can and don’t expect a thank you this time either. You gotta let that stuff go.

I draw the line at abusers…people who continually ask us to do things to help them out, but when we ask for help they beg off or just say no. That’s one sided and uncharitable on their part, so I’m good at saying no to those. I’ve only come across 2 or 3 in my lifetime.

 

[iserve]

OMW- It seems to me you did the right thing, you even gave them the truck to use afterward. The only thing I noticed that was that you did not confront the situation by expressing to him at the time, what your feelings were about his statements,and this sometimes causes us to brood. Things like what he said, which take us off guard and come from left field, have a way of being so shocking that they leave us speechless, and in our own minds, we feel we handled the situation poorly, and we go off to complain to others, but not to the one who needs to listen.

I suggest trying to write down your thoughts to him, stating in a polite, but exacting way, how you were offended byu the way you were treated. Usually, you don’t even have to give it to the person, but you can if you want to. Sometimes we can feel twice as bad about being mistreated because of our own inability to articulate our feelings about it, which can set us up to be mistreated in the future. Clarifying it to him may help you to move on, as how he behaves here on out is now up to him.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

iserve:

I suggest trying to write down your thoughts to him, stating in a polite, but exacting way, how you were offended byu the way you were treated. Usually, you don’t even have to give it to the person, but you can if you want to. Sometimes we can feel twice as bad about being mistreated because of our own inability to articulate our feelings about it, which can set us up to be mistreated in the future. Clarifying it to him may help you to move on, as how he behaves here on out is now up to him.

This is a good idea. If you have trouble with emotions, then I suggest you consider not sending the letter unless you have slept on it, plus you have reviewed it for subliminal judgmental negative messages, which could cause shields to go up, especially if they’re on a hair trigger.

As long as you’re not sending it, it can sometimes be therapeutic to “awfulize” the story in your direction, whether with fiction or the worst possible presentation beyond belief of actual facts. Pretend you are a democrat and you are writing something to a bunch of Bush-haters. How can you blow up the smallest details to make them huge? Then laugh at it, rejoice it isn’t that bad, and TEAR UP THE LETTER before you start getting the idea you need to show it to anybody in the world. (As always on secret information, except possibly your spouse.)

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Here’s what I mean about “awfulizing.” You construct a characature based on whatever selective details you want to consider, and attack that.

It’s a bit like “demonizing” except not quite as personal.

Caution: the following comments are intended to be insulting beyond proportion. If you think I’m harsh, then go ahead and pity my victim, which will bring merciful feelings toward this boor. That’s my backwards strategy.
On my way:

On Sunday, I went to Mass and then went to help my brother in-law move. While we was eating dinner I was speaking to his wifes mother who is Catholic. We had our own conversation and My brother in-law joined us. We all staterd talking and all of a sudden he said that all Catholics are brain-washed. He also stated that, I thought I was above him and was better than him.

He himself has been brainwashed by satan, so that Good Catholics appear to him as his own mentor. He only thinks you have a superiority complex because he assumes everyone is as much of an oaf as himself.

Is that how you thank someone who just helped you move and gave up my weekend of rest because I just got finish moving my family and could have really used the rest.

No, this is the way you treat someone whom you consider a tool, a non-human service provider, kind of like a trained dog. At least if you were a dog he’d maybe throw you a biscuit now and then.

It really bothered me and I don’t know if I will be able to talk to him again, because if there is one thing I don’t like it is ungreatfull people. I told my wife, his sister, that they could use my truck to move but they cannot use my body. Was I wrong for saying this?

You should ask them to have it fumigated before they return it so you don’t catch whatever he has. Maybe you should ask a priest to come through and check it out before you drive it, in case he spilled anything he brought from back home. Make sure you are stocked up on Holy Water as well as ammonia.

It just hurts when you do something for someone and they slap you in the face like that. Just thought I would share with you guys what has been on my mind since Sunday.

I know. You just want to bash their heads, and sometimes you wonder if that isn’t exactly what they need! Maybe he needs to go to boot camp and learn a little respect. Better yet, let’s get him a new collar with a remote control zapper for whenever he says anything ill mannered. “Gimme that” - ZAP - "OK, please … may … I … have … that … " Bwahahaha.

Alan

 

[wcknight]

There are some folks who have no clue on how to behave or how to treat folks with respect, even in something so basic as to show a little gratitude for helping them out. They are just plain knuckleheads. The sad thing is that they probably don’t even have a clue that what he said was insulting and it probably didn’t even occur to him that he should thank you for your help.

I would simply state how you feel to your sister (or to your wife) who is directly related to this moron. Your brother in law needs to find out that what he says (and does not say) matters, that it is rude to not say thank you and that it is insulting to sterotype folks like he does.

IF he had any class at all he would apologize to you personally but that would be asking a bit much. Your sister (or wife) however should know better and demand that he make amends whether he wants to or not.

wc

 

[Kay_Cee]

Somehow this whole thing reminds me of a story about St. Teresa of Avila (one of the Doctors of the Church).

She was on a journey to visit one of the convents in the order she had founded. She arrived late, dead tired and starving. She was rudely shown to a room and was offered neither food nor drink.

That night, while she was praying, she complained to Jesus about the poor treatment. Jesus replied, “But Teresa! That’s how I treat my friends!”

She immediately snapped back, “No wonder you have so few!”

The saints always treated those who spurned and insulted them with great kindness. They looked upon it as a greater opportunity to forgive–because there was so much to forgive! And since we ask Jesus to forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, well, a lot of forgiveness can go a long way.

Difficult? You bet. But maybe this is your opportunity to show your in-laws how gracious Catholics are. Remember, one way to witness is by example.

 

[mark_a]

On my way:

While we was eating dinner I was speaking to his wifes mother who is Catholic. We had our own conversation and My brother in-law joined us. We all staterd talking and all of a sudden he said that all Catholics are brain-washed.

Could this possibly be a mother-in-law problem?

He also stated that, I thought I was above him and was better than him

Let him know that it’s sinful for Catholics to believe they are better than others.

 

[mark_a]

YinYangMom:

Yes, you should be ok with it.
It shouldn’t matter to you whether or not the receiver is grateful.
You do the deed because you can.

Obviously there were others who needed the help too, but if this guy was only an aquaintance and treated me this way, it would be a cold day in August before I moved him again. Period.

Sounds like maybe he was stressed over spending the day with inlaws.