Gov. Chris Christie of NJ announces education reform

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Monte_RCMS said:
newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/09/28/christie-announces-sweeping-n-j-education-reform/

Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey announces sweeping NJ education reform.

Teacher testing in math [but only K-5] [what kind of testing could that possibly be? long division?]
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Its pretty easy to go after teachers, is he going to take away the badges of all the lousy cops or fireman? Is he going to stop all the shoddy back room deals in state of NJ construction jobs? How about the dmv , is he going to fire all the unfriendly motor vehicle registration workers ?

Give the math test to all state & city workers since a high school education is the requirement for almost all state & municipal jobs, and don’t make it the requirement that it meet Texas or Mississippi standards which are bogus.

Peace
 
portarica said:
Its pretty easy to go after teachers, is he going to take away the badges of all the lousy cops or fireman? Is he going to stop all the shoddy back room deals in state of NJ construction jobs? How about the dmv , is he going to fire all the unfriendly motor vehicle registration workers ?

Give the math test to all state & city workers since a high school education is the requirement for almost all state & municipal jobs, and don’t make it the requirement that it meet Texas or Mississippi standards which are bogus.

Peace
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With all due respect, what’s going on in the police, fire departments, and dmv has no bearing on what goes on with the teachers. Apparently he saw they had issues (I wouldn’t know, I don’t live in NJ (please don’t ask my location, BTW) and did his best to reform them, and good for him.

I’ve known some atheists who make this argument about Catholics who campaign for pro-life causes-“You don’t campaign nearly as much to help the poor and needy, therefore you shouldn’t campaign to help pro-life causes!” I don’t think it works.

I will now bow out of this thread since I know very little about this debate and can’t really take up the mantle on either side. I just thought that argument seemed lacking.
 
When they mentioned on NBC News the other night about the HUGE absentee percentage and non-attendance and early-quit stats for NJ high schoolers, I didn’t understand how throwing 100 million dollars into the school system is going to fix what sounds to me like family problems. A teacher can only do so much with what he/she has to work with – if undisciplined, disinterested kids show up (or don’t) there’s little hope for classroom intervention.

I get REALLY TIRED of “education” being a bottomless pit into which we keep throwing huge buckets of money, all in the name of “reform.” Public and private money isn’t the only answer here and the gov’t can’t be expected to solve every household problem.
 
portarica said:
Its pretty easy to go after teachers, is he going to take away the badges of all the lousy cops or fireman? Is he going to stop all the shoddy back room deals in state of NJ construction jobs? How about the dmv , is he going to fire all the unfriendly motor vehicle registration workers ?

Give the math test to all state & city workers since a high school education is the requirement for almost all state & municipal jobs, and don’t make it the requirement that it meet Texas or Mississippi standards which are bogus.

Peace
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NJ Native here,

NJ schools are above average, though the urban districts are still failing. They come at an enormous cost: some of the highest tax rates (especially property tax rates) in the country. Add to that a teacher’s union that has been flexing its political muscle since the campaign (praying for the Gov.'s death, opposing paying a minute portion of its benefits package, etc.), and this becomes a logical move for a confrontational politician.

The education reforms go far beyond the cuts to the budget (~800 million, IIRC), but to structural changes from the union model (rewards seniority) to more of a pure capitalist model (rewards results). This is worth watching.
 
CDNowak said:
NJ Native here,

NJ schools are above average, though the urban districts are still failing. They come at an enormous cost: some of the highest tax rates (especially property tax rates) in the country. Add to that a teacher’s union that has been flexing its political muscle since the campaign (praying for the Gov.'s death, opposing paying a minute portion of its benefits package, etc.), and this becomes a logical move for a confrontational politician.

The education reforms go far beyond the cuts to the budget (~800 million, IIRC), but to structural changes from the union model (rewards seniority) to more of a pure capitalist model (rewards results). This is worth watching.
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Part of the problem with teacher’s unions in general is the public’s misperception that they care about students. Parents worthy of the name care about students most of all. And teachers to the extent that they are dedicated professionals care about students also. But teacher’s unions exist to fight for teachers’ pay and benefits. They are also interested in expanding their political power by expanding their dues paying membership. They have no vested interest whatsoever in student performance. Any time a proposition appears on the ballot that might improve student performance and efficiency of educational expenditures, the teachers’ union and state educational establishment view it as a threat and invariably successfully spend big bucks to defeat it in the name of “what’s good for the children”. And voters continue to swallow it hook, line, and sinker.
 
Good point. Because some people think it takes a community to raise a child, not a family, and some people are interested in their children as far as donating sperm or eggs, then it ends there. They are glad to let some other disinterested party raise their offspring. And let others pay for it.

But “it takes a community” is not God’s way, so don’t expect it to work.

As far as lousy cops and other government employees, I think it’s a great idea to make them requalify for their jobs also. A cop in my town of Northampton was just fired after 16 years of milk toast service. But cops should be qualified to be cops, not math teachers. Physical fitness, firearms proficiency, knowledge of the law.
challam2010 said:
When they mentioned on NBC News the other night about the HUGE absentee percentage and non-attendance and early-quit stats for NJ high schoolers, I didn’t understand how throwing 100 million dollars into the school system is going to fix what sounds to me like family problems. A teacher can only do so much with what he/she has to work with – if undisciplined, disinterested kids show up (or don’t) there’s little hope for classroom intervention.

I get REALLY TIRED of “education” being a bottomless pit into which we keep throwing huge buckets of money, all in the name of “reform.” Public and private money isn’t the only answer here and the gov’t can’t be expected to solve every household problem.
Click to expand...
 
I don’t know if it’s true everywhere, but to me, one of the big problems with education is the fact that the teachers’ unions are also management.

I have seen it for years. Candidates for school boards are “vetted” by the teachers’ unions. Teachers’ unions have a lot of political clout. They have money. They have numbers, particularly when one considers all of the “secondary” beneficiaries; all the family members, near relatives of teachers and administrators, etc. They are very organized and know how to run elections.

Then, when one realizes how few people actually vote in school board elections, and the fact that membership terms are staggered, it’s no wonder that the board that gets elected is the puppet of the teachers’ union. The board selects the administrators. The administrators hire and promote the teachers, grant tenure, fix salaries, etc. The occasional “reformer” who gets elected is effectively isolated.

It’s a closed loop.

And the irony of it is that the teachers’ unions care a lot less about teachers’ salaries than they do about numbers. The more people employed by the school district, the more union dues get paid. It’s determined by numbers, not by salary. That’s why we always hear about “smaller class size” and all. A good teacher can teach 60 students in one room. (Catholic schools often did) A poor teacher can’t teach 10 kids anything. But they both pay the same union dues.

I hope Gov Christie makes improvements, but the whole system is such a mess I wonder if he can do much more than improve it at the margins.
 
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