Grace - A "FREE" gift from God?

[Malachi4U]

JMJ

My wife goes to a Protestant bible study free for all. It is ‘supposedly’ a non-denominational bible study in which you tell everyone what it is you believe the bible states. You can say a verse means one thing and the person next to you can say it means something else and the ‘teacher’/moderator will just smile and say you’re both right. When I go to school I expect the math teacher to teach me and that all students get the same answer to the same equation. Anyway, the “bible study”whacky: ) is run by Bible Study Fellowship (BSF). They use Eph 2:8-9 to ‘prove’ grace is free.

Eph 2:8-9 “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.”

My wife brought home a BSF booklet which stated that ‘Grace’ is a free gift from God. On the Baptists forums I was on before being kicked off for being Catholic, in the Baptist sects I was a member of, in the Lutheran sect I participated in, etc. they (Protestants) all claimed ‘grace’ was free gift from God.

Is grace free or not? Must we work for grace? Is grace freely offered or are there strings attached? Are Protestants plain right or just plain wrong?

 

[El_Catolico]

Umm, yes, grace is a free gift of God.

With that said, that doesnt mean that works play no part in our salvation. Works themselves are the gift of grace, and they play an integral part of our salvation.

 

[Cairisti]

I always read that Grace was a free gift from God when we are baptised.

My dad and elder brother are really into the BSF bible studies. When I told my parents about my attending RCIA, my dad handed me a BSF pamplet that had listed Protestant and Catholic theologies listed by different bible verses. (Very anti-Catholic, I thought).I looked at the BSF site one day and noticed that they only study certain books of the NT.

 

[threej_lc]

Grace is always a free gift from God! Whether we cooperate with it is another question.

Grace is what gives me the idea to pray when I wake up in the morning. Grace is what gives me the ability to pray once I decide I want to. Grace is what gives me the prayer I pray when I do it. And Grace is the result of its own action.

No where in there did I do anything. It was God the whole time, freely giving himself. I just allowed him to move, which enabled him to give His gift to me yet one more time.

Josh

 

[exoflare]

It’s free, but most people don’t even take Him up on the offer!

 

[carol_marie]

Grace is a free gift from God. No question.

I would caution anyone who is not totally grounded in their Catholic faith to reconsider attending BSF. I attended for several years, and it is a very good Bible study… but it isn’t completly compatible with our Catholic Faith.

The Bible study is broken up into two parts. The first part is the group discussion where everyone gives their “opinions” about what the assigned Bible verses mean. This is done in small groups of about 10 - 15. After that, everyone goes into the main auditorium to hear a 50 minute lecture where a speaker expains what the Bible verses ACTUALLY mean.

When the subject of communion came up, I was free to say that I believed it was the actual body & blood of Christ. However, during the lecture, the speaker made it very clear that it was totally symbolic. Likewise with baptism - I say infant baptism is OK - during the lecture I hear that it is NOT Biblical to baptize infants. And so on…

There were several Catholics in my small group - most ended up very confused… but a few felt that they could tune out all the stuff they didn’t agree with and appreciated being able to study the Bible.

This is one other red flag… the small group leaders are made up of all Christian denominations… Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist etc. Anyone who has taken the study for a couple of years and has shown potential might be asked to be a leader… anyone except for a Catholic.

 

[Zooey]

For us, yes, grace is free–*BUT: *to see what this free gift cost our Lord Jesus, I suggest a viewing of The Passion of the Christ.

And, of course, we are all free to toss that gift right back in His face…and then, God help us, pay the consequences–eternally.

 

[Fidelis]

Zooey:

For us, yes, grace is free–*BUT: *to see what this free gift cost our Lord Jesus, I suggest a viewing of The Passion of the Christ.

And, of course, we are all free to toss that gift right back in His face…and then, God help us, pay the consequences–eternally.

Exactly! Grace may be free, but it is not cheap.

 

[Malachi4U]

Very good answers by all of you. Thanks for the in put.

Now, where in the Bible does it say ‘Grace’ is free? Is it a free ‘offer’ to take or decline but if you take God up then there is a price to pay for the ‘gift’? Only the ‘offer’ is free but the ‘gift’ must be earned and payed for?

Remember, please give a Bible verse to support you position. So far, only man-made traditions seem to be given as proof. No Scripture proof has been given, just man-made opinions.

JMJ

 

[Fidelis]

Now, where in the Bible does it say ‘Grace’ is free?

**Ro 11:6 - **
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Is it a free ‘offer’ to take or decline but if you take God up then there is a price to pay for the ‘gift’? Only the ‘offer’ is free but the ‘gift’ must be earned and payed for?

Corinthians 6:1-2
Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain. For he says, “At the acceptable time I have listened to you, and helped you on the day of salvation.” Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

Remember, please give a Bible verse to support you position. So far, only man-made traditions seem to be given as proof. No Scripture proof has been given, just man-made opinions.

Your original post didn’t ask for Scriptural support, so nobody gave any.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Malachi4U:

JMJ

My wife goes to a Protestant bible study free for all. It is ‘supposedly’ a non-denominational bible study in which you tell everyone what it is you believe the bible states. You can say a verse means one thing and the person next to you can say it means something else and the ‘teacher’/moderator will just smile and say you’re both right. When I go to school I expect the math teacher to teach me and that all students get the same answer to the same equation. Anyway, the “bible study”whacky: ) is run by Bible Study Fellowship (BSF). They use Eph 2:8-9 to ‘prove’ grace is free.

Eph 2:8-9 “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.”

What more proof is needed ? People who don’t want to be convinced of a thing, can’t be - that’s why mere human argument is ultimately worthless in debating religion; for only the grace of God can bring conviction. Debating ability is useless for such a purpose. Even God cannot convince those who are unwilling to be convinced - so they are left to the darkness which they have deliberately chosen. It is no fault of God that the darkness we hide ourselves in is not His Light; but ours, alone. That is why grace has to be irresistible - if it could not convert the stubborn and ego-centric heart of man, no one would ever be converted. The wickedness and cruelty of the human heart needs a mighty strong medicine to correct it; and grace is that medicine.​

My wife brought home a BSF booklet which stated that ‘Grace’ is a free gift from God. On the Baptists forums I was on before being kicked off for being Catholic, in the Baptist sects I was a member of, in the Lutheran sect I participated in, etc. they (Protestants) all claimed ‘grace’ was free gift from God.

What does your being kicked of those fora have to do with grace not being free ?##​

Is grace free or not? Must we work for grace? Is grace freely offered or are there strings attached? Are Protestants plain right or just plain wrong?

It is completely free for us, because of what it cost Christ. Something that costs God His own Life cannot be paid for by us - it can only be received as a gift.​

This is one matter in which Protestants tend to be far closer to the truth than we do - we too often fail to emphasise things that we should, that they do emphasise. This is one of them ##

 

[Genesis315]

Of course grace is free. How else would infant Baptism work?

Now, of course, we are free to reject or ignore grace–we do this by sinning, not doing the will of God, not partaking in the Sacraments, etc.

Works are how we cooperate with the grace we have been given.

 

[RyanL]

The free gift of grace is kinda’ like the free gift of a puppy.

You get the puppy for free. It’s a gift. There’s nothing you could have done to make the giver give you that puppy.

Great. Now you have a puppy.

You have to feed your puppy, clean up after it, supress its animal instincts and train it, etc., and you can have this puppy for the rest of your life (this particular puppy can get very old).

OR

You could decide the puppy is too much work and take him to the ASPCA, and lose him. Unlike the ASPCA (for this example), your puppy will remain there until you repent and come back and get him. The puppy will be there until you’re dead (remember, he’s a very long lived puppy), and the ASPCA will make sure the puppy is in the same condition as you left him.

I think that’s pretty much how it works with grace. Of course, that’s just my opinion.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[RyanL]

I forgot to mention that if you don’t feed your puppy, your puppy will die.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[gryskull]

of course it’s free. FIDELIS posted some good verses to refer to at post #10.

We know it’s free since we cannot earn it. We know we can lose it because even a third of the angels lost it when they rebelled against God. If they can lose it as angels then we can lose it as humans.

 

[Pug]

This thread makes me think about this verse, and since people wanted to see verses, I feel free to indulge myself and post bible verses:

NAU Isaiah 55:1 "Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost. 2 "Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance.

That verse makes me think of this other verse:

NAU Rev 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.

 

[Mystophilus]

Malachi4U:

You can say a verse means one thing and the person next to you can say it means something else and the ‘teacher’/moderator will just smile and say you’re both right. When I go to school I expect the math teacher to teach me and that all students get the same answer to the same equation.

While I understand your point here, rememder that mathematics is not literature, and that the two different disciplines do not follow the same rules. In a (lower-level) mathematics class, the teacher could say, “That is wrong; this is right.” In literature classes, ‘right’ is very hard to establish, because we are looking at extremely complex sets of data, as do higher-level mathematics classes. Instead, we rely upon correlation: “That reading has a low correlation with the data; this reading has a high one.” It is very, very difficult to prove that one particular reading of a text is the only logically-possible reading.

Eph 2:8-9 “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.”

‘chariti este seswismenoi dia pistews’, “by” grace, but “through” faith: both are factors.

Is grace free or not? Must we work for grace? Is grace freely offered or are there strings attached? Are Protestants plain right or just plain wrong?

In love he destined us for adoption to himself through Jesus Christ, in accord with the favor of his will, for the praise of the glory of his **grace** that he **granted** us in the beloved.  In him we have redemption by his blood, the forgiveness of transgressions, in accord with the riches of his **grace** that he **lavished** upon us. (Ephesians 1:5-8)

grace is ‘charitos’ (whence ‘charity’). granted is ‘echaritôsen’ (from ‘chari^toô’): I am sure that you can see the connection. In some translations, the verb is presented as “freely gave”. lavished is ‘eperisseusen’ (from ‘perisseuô’), ‘to exceed/abound’ or ‘to cause to exceed/abound’. The grace is given as an act of exceeding charity.

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access [by faith] to this grace* in which we stand, and we boast in hope of the glory of God… For Christ, while we were still helpless, yet died at the appointed time for the ungodly. Indeed, only with difficulty does one die for a just person, though perhaps for a good person one might even find courage to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath. Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life. (Romans 5: 1-2, 6-10)
Paul not only made the point but repeated it three times in quick succession: God’s gift of exceeding charity came to the weak, the sinners, the enemies of God. Paul seems rather emphatic in his statement that was freely given. Note that ‘tei pistei’, ‘by faith’, is found only in some ancient references to the text.

This is, after all, the normal situation for love. When you love someone, you treat them well without any need on their part to earn such treatment either before or after the gift, which is what makes it a gift rather than wages. What you hope is that they subsequently act in an appropriate manner towards you, which is, I think, where the faith comes in.

I think that RyanL’s puppy analogy is a great representation of their subsequent options.

 

[Malachi4U]

Mystophilus,:clapping:

You have truly given a very good response. I shall deliberate about what you said and research a few things.

Just a quick question or two though for posters here. If God gave us all His Grace through Jesus:

1. Why do we need Faith if we allready have His Grace?
2. Why did we need Jesus? Could not God have the power to just give us his Grace (perhaps a rather large topic here)?
3. Can God take His Grace away once given?
4. Do people in Hell have the gift of Grace from God?
5. What does Grace actually give us?
6. Once Grace is given, must we ‘work’ (deeds/doing) to keep it?

What version of the Bible is the NAU? Is it produced by a specific denomination?

JMJ

 

[Mystophilus]

Malachi4U:

Just a quick question or two though for posters here. If God gave us all His Grace through Jesus:

“all”?

1. Why do we need Faith if we already have His Grace?

I would say that his grace is a gift to us, but that faith is what we need in order to act in the right manner. Belief in God leads to a desire to imitate God’s character, which leads to loving behaviour towards others. Thus, our faith is a benefit both to ourselves and to others.

1. Why did we need Jesus? Could not God have the power to just give us his Grace (perhaps a rather large topic here)?

If God is omnipotent, then, by definition, God could have done anything. God chose what was perhaps the ultimate example of his own love, though, that we should then seek to emulate such love towards each other. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. (John 15:13)

1. Can God take His Grace away once given?

Omnipotence: God always “can”. This is, I would suggest what happens when/if the wicked are annihilated. The ultimate cessation of grace is the cessation of all of the gifts of God, i.e., the end of existence.

1. Do people in Hell have the gift of Grace from God?

I currently lean in the direction of annihilationism, and so I think that God withdraws grace from them and they consequently cease to be.

1. What does Grace actually give us?

The chance to survive, both before and after death. The grace of God allows us a life far better than that of most mortals, because we have the ineffable assurance of the love of God and, thence, hope.

1. Once Grace is given, must we ‘work’ (deeds/doing) to keep it?

This goes to Q4. I do not think that we need to work to keep it during our lives, but I do think that, if we are really determined to be wicked, God will eventually allow us to self-destruct, having first given us every opportunity to make it right. What I find most interesting about this is the fact that most of the people who are “bad” are quite obviously suffering from serious psychological issues which cloud their judgement and lead them towards antisocial and self-destructive behaviour. God must have some way of circumventing the effects of such factors.