Grace AND Work?

[thnguyen24]

Hi all,

I just recently got in contact with a priest and he said that Catholic believes that man is saved by BOTH grace AND work. In other words, if you don’t have good work, you can’t enter heaven. Is that true? Isn’t Christ’s death is enough and good work is just proof for your faith? Isn’t your motivation for doing good work is because of your love for God alone, not because good work is what you have to do to get you to heaven?

Thanks for answering me. I don’t know where I should post this, so feel free to move it.

 

[dmar198]

Hi all,

I just recently got in contact with a priest and he said that Catholic believes that man is saved by BOTH grace AND work. In other words, if you don’t have good work, you can’t enter heaven. Is that true? Isn’t Christ’s death is enough and good work is just proof for your faith? Isn’t your motivation for doing good work is because of your love for God alone, not because good work is what you have to do to get you to heaven?

Thanks for answering me. I don’t know where I should post this, so feel free to move it.

You’ve misunderstood the priest probably, but there’s a great deal of equivocation involved here. The short answer is this: grace is sufficient. And if you think I’m lying, that’s a quote from the Bible. Look it up.

The means of grace include the works we do, though. So it can also be said that we cooperate with grace, and this cooperation is something that is not simply an act of God: it truly is our own cooperation, and it is necessary.

Does this mean that grace is not sufficient? No. Our cooperation is totally motivated by God’s grace, such that it would be proper to say that: our cooperation with grace, is itself a gift from God, or a grace.

On the question of the necessity of good works, the issue comes down to this: is it necessary for salvation to have Jesus as your lord?

If so, then it is also necessary to obey Him, because to decide that you will not obey Him, is to deny His lordship.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

Here’s the Church’s teaching, about as simply as it can be put.

We are SAVED by God’s grace. It is not something we deserve, but it something with which God blesses us, in his mercy, and to which he graciously allows us access.

That is not something Catholic and protestants disagree on. The disagreement is on how were are JUSTIFIED; that is, how is God’s graceapplied in our lives, how are we made holy so that we may enter the Kingdom of God?

The Catholic Church teaches that we are justified, made holy, by both faith in Christ and the teachings of his Church and by doing good works, as he commanded. Both faith and works are ways in which God’s grace is applied to us in our everyday lives, by which we are made holy and more ready for heaven.

Good works flow from true faith; it is God’s grace which both makes it possible to have faith and to do good works. Works without faith are empy and faith without works is dead.

However, both having faith and doing works leads to a more grace-filled life, which in turn leads to greater faith and even greater works, which in turn… you see, its kind of a circle. Even if we fail, and fall of the horse, so to speak, we can get back up back up and, by the grace of God, amend our lives, and try to live a more holy, grace-filled life.

a more technical explanation:
catholic.com/library/Grace_What_It_Is.asp

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi all,

I just recently got in contact with a priest and he said that Catholic believes that man is saved by BOTH grace AND work. In other words, if you don’t have good work, you can’t enter heaven. Is that true? Isn’t Christ’s death is enough and good work is just proof for your faith? Isn’t your motivation for doing good work is because of your love for God alone, not because good work is what you have to do to get you to heaven?

Thanks for answering me. I don’t know where I should post this, so feel free to move it.

the question to ask always with regard to the work of Jesus is “what did Jesus say?”
read the judgement of the nations, Matthew 25–those who ignore the good works they are called to do, feeding the hungry etc., will be cast into the pit, that is, hell. they cannot merit heaven. Jesus says so. end of discussion

 

[thnguyen24]

Thanks all,

I have to explain a bit about my conversation with the priest I got in contact with. Here is the actual conversation (via email)

Me: Recently I had a conversation with a Catholic friend and she said that I have to be good to be saved, in other word, I have to work for my salvation. Is that true?

The Priest: For Christian Non-chatholic - they believe that we are save by grace alone! (pre-detemination) so if you are safe. You can be a SERIAL killer and still be safe.
For Catholics - it is not Either/Or but it is BOTH/AND that mean we are safe by BOTH GRACE and good WORK (good work is the result of good)

Me: Thank you for replying my feedback. I understand that you’re busy, but I would really appreciate it if you set aside a little bit of your time to answer a few more questions.
First, I was talking to my Catholic friend again about the Bible. I actually read some passages to her, but she later said that she doesn’t know about Paul so she doesn’t really believe in the passages that I read, which are from some of the letters of Paul. What do you think of that?
Second, Do you base everything you believe in on the Bible alone or some other doctrines also? My friend seems to be unsure about whether she should follow the Bible or the teaching from the church. When I asked what if the teaching from church contradicts the teaching of the Bible, she doesn’t know if she should follow the Bible or other teaching.

The Priest: your first question… I have no answer… I do not know the “real” of what happen so… what I think is not importand…
About the second one. As I told you from the first email … for catholic it is BOTH/AND… I do not think the church teaching is against the Bible (note - When reading the bible we have to read the WHOLE Bible… - not one verse and then call it what the Bible says!). Catholic has both Bible and Tradition with the CAPITAL P -
I suggest if you have question… maybe a near by priest might help you

The above conversation is copied straight from my email box. I would forward to anyone who is interested.

I’m totally agree that grace is sufficient for salvation and we don’t need anything else.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.

All we have to do is to believe and the evidence of faith is good work. Just like Jesus said in Luke 6:44

Each tree is recognized by its own fruit

And as true followers of Christ, whom the Holy Spirit dwells in, we have to produce the fruit of the Spirit, which is
Galatians 5:22-23:

love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control

 

[LSK]

**1129 **The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. “Sacramental grace” is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior.

---

Catholics believe that grace is necessary for Salvation; however, we have a different take on grace than our seperated brethren as well as how that grace is bestowed. Catholics also believe tha faith, without works, is dead (St James). We believe that unless we cooperate with the grace of the Paschal Mystery we are not assured of salvation. Remember, Our Lord Himself reminded us that not all who cry, “Lord, Lord” will enter into the Kingdom.

May I suggest you read the Catechism in order to get a better understanding of Catholic teaching? You can access it online and it is not a difficult read.

 

[Cinette]

Hi all,

I just recently got in contact with a priest and he said that Catholic believes that man is saved by BOTH grace AND work. In other words, if you don’t have good work, you can’t enter heaven. Is that true? Isn’t Christ’s death is enough and good work is just proof for your faith? Isn’t your motivation for doing good work is because of your love for God alone, not because good work is what you have to do to get you to heaven?

Thanks for answering me. I don’t know where I should post this, so feel free to move it.

I disagree with what the priest told you! :tsktsk:

We are saved by grace alone “sola gratia”. The official teaching of the CC is that we are saved or receive justification by grace and faith in Jesus Christ, working in love. Martin Luther had the audacity to add the word “only” in his translation of Romans (Sola Fide) which opened a huge can of worms!

The works of love which we must produce are faith in action. It is all grace. The works are not in addition to grace - they are fruits of grace. It is quite true that Jesus has done everything. ALL IS GRACE and we are saved by Faith in Him (working in love) and by his grace. Many Catholics seem to misunderstand the basic good news of salvation.

:yup:

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Thanks all,

I have to explain a bit about my conversation with the priest I got in contact with. Here is the actual conversation (via email)

The above conversation is copied straight from my email box. I would forward to anyone who is interested.

I’m totally agree that grace is sufficient for salvation and we don’t need anything else.

Ephesians 2:8-9For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.

All we have to do is to believe and the evidence of faith is good work. Just like Jesus said in Luke 6:44

And as true followers of Christ, whom the Holy Spirit dwells in, we have to produce the fruit of the Spirit, which is

Understand, when we accept Christ as our savior and Lord, we are granted Grace. We also accept the responsibility to do as he has commaned, to obey his commandments, to be in obedience to him. Being in obedience in and of itself is a type of works. Without the obedience we have not really turned ourselves over to him nor really accepted him as our savior or Lord. Having Grace enables us to be in obedience, it also gives us constant access to the Holy Spirit, for without him we can do nothing on our own. Do you pray? This is another type of works on our part. Remember the great commandments, Love the Lord your God with all your mind and all your heart, and Love your neighbor as yourself. Again, types of works. Without these your faith is dead. Yes we are saved by Grace, meaning we are no longer under the condemnation of the Law, but by Grace we can stay obedeint to that same Law. I believe what the preist was telling is that works will not get you into heaven, but being disobedient to Christ as a Christian will deffinently keep you out.

In Christ.

 

[Cinette]

Understand, when we accept Christ as our savior and Lord, we are granted Grace. We also accept the responsibility to do as he has commaned, to obey his commandments, to be in obedience to him. Being in obedience in and of itself is a type of works. Without the obedience we have not really turned ourselves over to him nor really accepted him as our savior or Lord. Having Grace enables us to be in obedience, it also gives us constant access to the Holy Spirit, for without him we can do nothing on our own. Do you pray? This is another type of works on our part. Remember the great commandments, Love the Lord your God with all your mind and all your heart, and Love your neighbor as yourself. Again, types of works. Without these your faith is dead. Yes we are saved by Grace, meaning we are no longer under the condemnation of the Law, but by Grace we can stay obedeint to that same Law. I believe what the preist was telling is that works will not get you into heaven, but being disobedient to Christ as a Christian will deffinently keep you out.

In Christ.

Jesus said “take up your cross and follow me”.

I keep hearing Protestants saying that you will be saved if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour - can you please show me where this is stated in the Bible? You mention obedience to the law - yes it is a good work - a fruit of grace, not in addition to grace.

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Jesus said “take up your cross and follow me”.

I keep hearing Protestants saying that you will be saved if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour - can you please show me where this is stated in the Bible? You mention obedience to the law - yes it is a good work - a fruit of grace, not in addition to grace.

“He that believeth and is baptised.” Is this not accepting Christ as your saviour? And did I ever say that obedience to the Law was additional to Grace? We are saved from our sins, not in them. Following the Law will not get you into heaven, Grace through the blood of Christ does that, however, no one is going to make it into heaven willfully being disobedient to the will of God. And what is the will of God? The only measurement we have for that are the two great Commandments, Love God and Love your neighbor, “on these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets.” these two commandments encompass the Law of God, so to be disobedient to the Law is to be disobedient to God. “If you love me, obey my commandments.” By being obedient to the Law we show our love for him who created us.

In Christ

 

[Cinette]

“He that believeth and is baptised.” Is this not accepting Christ as your saviour? And did I ever say that obedience to the Law was additional to Grace? We are saved from our sins, not in them. Following the Law will not get you into heaven, Grace through the blood of Christ does that, however, no one is going to make it into heaven willfully being disobedient to the will of God. And what is the will of God? The only measurement we have for that are the two great Commandments, Love God and Love your neighbor, “on these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets.” these two commandments encompass the Law of God, so to be disobedient to the Law is to be disobedient to God. “If you love me, obey my commandments.” By being obedient to the Law we show our love for him who created us.

In Christ

I think you have expressed yourself well. Yes if we love God and our neighbour it follows that we will also obey the other commendments. I am pleased you do not expound that “faith alone” theory.

Thank you for your post

 

[WMM]

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in Heaven.” Mathew 7:21

“What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?” James 2: 14-15

“For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.” James 2:26

Certainly without faith, we are not saved. Christ earned salvation for us by His death and resurrection. He offers this grace to each of us freely, but we must accept it.

Clearly by Our Lords words from Matthew, the Father expects each of us to act by doing His will.

I would call that grace and works.

 

[thnguyen24]

Jesus said “take up your cross and follow me”.

I keep hearing Protestants saying that you will be saved if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour - can you please show me where this is stated in the Bible? You mention obedience to the law - yes it is a good work - a fruit of grace, not in addition to grace.

In answering your question, I would like to quote Romans 10:9
Romans 10:9:

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[brigid12]

Hi all,

I just recently got in contact with a priest and he said that Catholic believes that man is saved by BOTH grace AND work. In other words, if you don’t have good work, you can’t enter heaven. Is that true? Isn’t Christ’s death is enough and good work is just proof for your faith? Isn’t your motivation for doing good work is because of your love for God alone, not because good work is what you have to do to get you to heaven?

Thanks for answering me. I don’t know where I should post this, so feel free to move it.

“Little children, let us not love in word or speech but in deed and in truth.” 1John 3:18

“What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.” James 2:14-17

 

[EasterJoy]

The Vatican released a joint declaration with the Lutherans, clarifying positions on this topic. It is posted at the Vatican web site, and is worth reading:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html