Graphic abortion pics while side walk counselling?

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Hi Juliane,
snip
A lot of posters here seem to be protesting how such images affect their sensibilities. This, to my mind, is simply being blind to the real horror of abortion. Abortion is murder.
No matter how the operators of this vile industry dress it up, it is murder; are we more concerned with offending a few squeamish people or are we really concerned with saving lives? snip
Let us use every image, every payer, every ultrasound, every understanding. But let us never back away from this fight for life.
God Bless,
Colmcille.
Thank you for your response. I don’t care about people’s sensibilities, on this thread. I am only concerned with what ultimately saves babies. The posters DO NOT WORK. They only drive the women INTO the clinics and away from us faster. At the clinic is not the place nor the time for these images. I have been repeating ad infinitum that the GAP - Genocide Awareness Project - takes this HUGE posters all around the country, educating college students about what is taking place in abortion clinics, usually PP and usually near the campus. When a young woman is not in the situation, she can consider the photos more carefully and with less defenses set up against them. Once she has already been to PP or whatever clinic, she is already preparing herself for the event. It is somewhat akin to beating on the shell of a turtle at that point - it won’t come out no matter how hard you pound. But if you are quiet and wait, it might just let down its defenses and poke its head out again.

If there were more of either type of pro-life worker - either the ones like me, who believe that prayer and sidewalk counseling affect more lives than loud and aggressive protesting, or the ones who want to hold the signs - were to be AT THE CLINICS 24/7/365, I am convinced that abortions would decline, if not stop altogether. It would not be the method used, but the presence of WITNESSES to the act that would make the difference. The women who were viewing the signs would be somewhat more traumatized than the ones who had been prayed out of going in, and I think it would take longer to reach those women. How many people on this thread, who have been offering their viewpoints, have actually done either one? I’ve been present at both, and the one that affects the clients, the PP workers and volunteers, and passersby, is being in prayer and offering an alternative. No one wants to be attacked and that is exactly what PP tells women that we do, and then after someone has used the signs, we have to work twice as hard just to get access to give women the directions to the CPC which was RIGHT BEHIND PP. The volunteer death-scorts tell women all sorts of lies about our motivations, and the technique of yelling at the women and exposing them to the photos plays right into their hands.

On the other hand, when I talk to a woman through the fence, after she has had the abortion and is throwing up, and the PP volunteer does NOTHING, if I offer her tissues or a bottle of water, and then I call the volunteer over to help her, does that appear to the woman as if I am angry at her or as if I truly care? One little chink in the wall of lies that PP tells can break down that wall and that woman can also affect others by telling them that “You know, those people who SAY they care really don’t, but the people praying were the ones who helped me when I was sick.” You may not see that at the time, but there were a lot of people who didn’t understand what Jesus did, either.

I ask you once again to consider whether Abby Johnson, the former director of the Bryan Texas Planned Parenthood, would have considered approaching the pro-lifers outside her clinic, if they’d been holding graphic signs and shouting at the women entering PP. Would YOU do such a thing? She was already freaked out by having seen an abortion taking place while she was holding the ultrasound equipment - and needed a welcoming, kind atmosphere in order to really walk away from that job.

I assume you meant to use everything in our power to stop abortion except violence…And I do consider the signs to be a kind of violence. I RECOGNIZE that the baby is experiencing the worst kind of violence, and believe me, it breaks my heart in half. Many times I have prayed for God to take me in replacement if it would stop abortion. I have offered myself again and again, and always have to resist the urge to whip myself in distress (literally). But this is also something I resist, knowing that the clinic would use my self-abuse as a joke, not understanding the motivations for such things.

There is theory, and then there is what really works. Jesus told us to pray for our enemies, did he not? Trust me, it’s a lot harder to pray for those escorts and even the abortion doctor, than it is to yell and scream and get your own frustration out that way.

I don’t think the two camps will ever see things the same way. It’s Operation Rescue v. 40 Days for Life. As I stated before, both could be helpful IN LARGE NUMBERS. Showing the women that a LOT of people disagree with what they are about to do, and that it is wrong to make that “choice.” Ultimately, I think having hundreds of praying Catholics, and Protestants would be actually more disturbing and threatening to the clinics than any pictures ever could be. We heap burning coals on our enemy’s head that way.

If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat;
if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,
and the Lord will reward you.

Proberbs 25:21-22
 
Hi Julianne,
Thank you for your reply.
The first time I saw these graphic images was at a protest outside a hotel. The hotel (in Nortern Ireland) was staging a conference of “doctors” who specialised in abortion. The images were held up in silence by one section of the crowd. I was in a section which prayed fervently. Another group sung hymns.
In all, it was very powerful and I do believe the posters had their place. Would you consider the posters just as offensive if held in silence outside abortion clinics?
You say that you consider these images to be a form of violence and yet you have no problem displaying them on college campuses.
It seems to me that we cannot be selective in our sympathies.
I understand and applaud your excellent work for the women who go through abortion.
But I do not see the connection between holding a graphic image and venting one’s “frustration”.
Again, the protestors I saw held them in silence. I’ll bet they were hardly noticed by the motorists who drove into the grounds of that hotel. But someone will have noticed them and that someone will be moved to understand that this is the reality of abortion. And that someone will then share his/her thoughts with another and a message of life will be born.
In this image-saturated age, these photographs have their place.
God Bless,
Colmcille.
 
I think what you did was perfectly appropriate. The doctors who commit abortions are doing harm to the woman and murdering the baby, and they surely already know what the babies they kill look like.

I will stand firm on my conviction that the images do not belong at the abortion clinic. Yes, at that location, they could be considered violent to the women going in, and perhaps I should not care about them, but I do. On a college campus, the students going by are not usually going through the same situation - the pictures are still very brutal, but can be studied the way a college textbook about genocide is studied - with a slight remove. It can be a more academic approach, but one that still reaches their minds and possibly their hearts. The INJUSTICE of abortion is what is stressed. That message is too intellectual for the abortion clinic, IMO. At that point, I believe that prayer works best, and mercy for the woman.

Perhaps my empathy is misplaced, but I know women who have gone through this and I pity them. Some do not even know Christ and have suffered immeasurably. As I said before on the thread, these are not women who have exercised a free and educated “choice.” They are under pressure, they are frightened, some have been physically threatened with harm if they don’t go through with the abortion. Some have been abused, some have been in sexual slavery and gotten pregnant, and are brought by the coyotes to get rid of the baby. It is an ugly business, and while I see your point, I would rather have signs with the stages of development of an embryo/fetus/baby. why not hold those signs instead?
 
Please do read this blog. How many babies are documented as being saved by the posters? I’d really like to know.

40 Days has had over 3,000 documented saves in 6 years. Doesn’t seem like a lot but it’s growing every campaign.

40daysforlife.com/blog/?p=1307

Here is a section from today’s blog.

SAGINAW, MICHIGAN
——————————————————-

“Great news from Saginaw!” said Robert, the local 40 Days for Life coordinator.

“A woman came out of the abortion facility and told the prayer volunteers that she decided to not have the abortion,” he said. “She took our help and information brochure — and left smiling. The power of prayer and witnessing is incredible!”

The 40 Days for Life team in Saginaw is also seeing encouraging signs from people passing by. Two men were praying outside the abortion facility when a woman stopped and gave them a thumbs-up and said, “Keep fighting the good fight!”

That’s my advice to you as well. Keep fighting the good fight … and please keep praying!
 
Please do read this blog. How many babies are documented as being saved by the posters? I’d really like to know.

40 Days has had over 3,000 documented saves in 6 years. Doesn’t seem like a lot but it’s growing every campaign.

40daysforlife.com/blog/?p=1307

Here is a section from today’s blog.

SAGINAW, MICHIGAN
——————————————————-

“Great news from Saginaw!” said Robert, the local 40 Days for Life coordinator.

“A woman came out of the abortion facility and told the prayer volunteers that she decided to not have the abortion,” he said. “She took our help and information brochure — and left smiling. The power of prayer and witnessing is incredible!”

The 40 Days for Life team in Saginaw is also seeing encouraging signs from people passing by. Two men were praying outside the abortion facility when a woman stopped and gave them a thumbs-up and said, “Keep fighting the good fight!”

That’s my advice to you as well. Keep fighting the good fight … and please keep praying!
“blog. How many babies are documented as being saved by the posters? I’d really like to know.”

To save one baby is worth the whole thing.
There is a Hebrew saying which goes something like this
“save one soul means to save whole universe”
that one soul saved has the breath of God in him/her and means that the child’s mother and father dont live with the knowledge that they have taken their son or daughter to die.
That is a huge thing!
GraceAngel.
 
“blog. How many babies are documented as being saved by the posters? I’d really like to know.”

To save one baby is worth the whole thing.
There is a Hebrew saying which goes something like this
“save one soul means to save whole universe”
that one soul saved has the breath of God in him/her and means that the child’s mother and father dont live with the knowledge that they have taken their son or daughter to die.
That is a huge thing!
GraceAngel.
This would only have meaning if it could be balanced by those that could have been saved, and weren’t, because the teenagers were so turned off by the graphic images that they did not even consider the message.

The “one life saved” is a good rule if one is dealing with something that has no down side in terms of other lives lost. Data on this issue is hard to come by.
 
This would only have meaning if it could be balanced by those that could have been saved, and weren’t, because the teenagers were so turned off by the graphic images that they did not even consider the message.

The “one life saved” is a good rule if one is dealing with something that has no down side in terms of other lives lost. Data on this issue is hard to come by.
Hi pnewton,
I would agree that data is hard to acess. I would also state that the graphic images do have a place in the overall campaign against abortion.
An earlier poster lamented the fact of having to watch scenes from the holocaust.
I recall an excellent TV series from the 70’s called ‘The World at War’. I will never forget the images of the mass graves, of snow ploughs moving the mounds of bodies. I truly hope those who see the graphic images of aborted humans will pray for those souls lost; and go beyond the concerns of their sensibilities.
God Bless,
Colmcille.
 
At some juncture extreme measures will cause a negative reaction. The spectrum runs from murdering abortion providers, to destroying property, to acts of vandalism ( such as advocated by Randall Terry in the 80s,) to verbal assault, to showing gruesome images, and other less confrontational methods. Gruesome photographs seem borderline. Many photographs of unquestionably reasonably surgical procedures are distasteful to non-medical folks. For example, I would not like to watch a video of an oral surgeon cutting out wisdom teeth. Seems to me that gruesome photographs might be effectively used depending on the circumstances. But there is a danger of appearing to be ranting which in itself can affect protesters’ credibility. This all poses a difficult judgment call on the leaders of any protesters.
 
Abortion cant be that bad?
well for goodness sake how bad is abortion?
Abortion dismembers and suctions out a child in the womb.
Yes it is that bad. That is how a child that has been aborted looks. There is nothing aesthetic about abortion. It is the violant dismemberment of a child that had previously lain safe in its mother’s womb.
This is false compassion. What else can pro abortionists say?
The images outside the abortion clinic are the truth of abortion and the truth always remains the truth. And these images are the last effort made to save both the life of the child and the “life” of the mother. You see after the abortion all the supporters of abortion and the sanitising of abortion sleep peacefully in their beds at night whilst the mother of the aborted child is left to “hear” her baby calling out to her. Is left to “see” her baby every night so she cant sleep. Is left to her lifelong regret over her decision. Is left to grieve for her infant.
So if the images help a mother not enter the human abattoirs, then they are important.
As for the respect for the baby being aborted, more respect is shown to its life if he/she can be helped to live rather than be dismembered.
GraceAngel.
GraceAngel, you need to read my other posts on the subject. Agreed on showing the truth, not agreed on the time and place to do it nor on pushing the pictures on vulnerable people to whom they are not intended.

In the people I’ve seen holding graphic pictures I’ve seen anger, disgust, pride, and a tendency to violence. These are not the signs of the Love of Christ. It’s better to stay at home when one can’t control his/her emotions, get over the sin and love the sinner. This includes the abortion doctors and nurses and anybody who supports abortion. Let us pray for their conversion and by our love show them the Mercy of God.

A thought: If you were an alcoholic and driving a car, would it help if as a friend, I was protesting in front of your garage door with a bloody poster of a person crashed in a drunk driving accident? How would your family members, neighbors, friends feel about it? Do all these people need to see the picture? Would it show how much I care about my friend?

PS: have you/ a loved one experienced the grief that you are describing? you can message me if you want. Peace be with you.
 
At some juncture extreme measures will cause a negative reaction. The spectrum runs from murdering abortion providers, to destroying property, to acts of vandalism ( such as advocated by Randall Terry in the 80s,) to verbal assault, to showing gruesome images, and other less confrontational methods. Gruesome photographs seem borderline. Many photographs of unquestionably reasonably surgical procedures are distasteful to non-medical folks. For example, I would not like to watch a video of an oral surgeon cutting out wisdom teeth. Seems to me that gruesome photographs might be effectively used depending on the circumstances. But there is a danger of appearing to be ranting which in itself can affect protesters’ credibility. This all poses a difficult judgment call on the leaders of any protesters.
If our opponents call us “extremists,” (and they do) then protesting and all that goes along with it (signs, shouts, haranguing the volunteers) plays right into their hands. The PP approach is to make us look like crazy people, extremists, and violent. The clients do not know any better, and PP says they are only helping. Whom to believe?

OTOH, if we are standing in quiet prayer, holding rosaries or prayer books, and merely offering literature and help, or a sign that says “Take my hand, not my life,” with a photo of a smiling baby, then the PP staff end up looking stupid. We are not extremists and the clients can see that. If PP is lying about us, what else are they lying about? (that is seen from the client’s POV) We have documented responses from women who changed their minds, who said that PP obviously was lying about what was happening outside their clinic and that made an impression. That impression would NOT have been made if we were there with the signs, condemning the women going in. It seems as if we are condemning them, anyway, although the purpose is to strike their consciences.

We have to be seen as MORE truthful, kinder, nicer than the clinic employees. At least that is what I believe works the best. It is the most undermining of the structure that PP has set up. They have to strike fear in the hearts of their clients in order to get past us, and if there is nothing to fear, then what do they do?
 
A You see after the abortion all the supporters of abortion and the sanitising of abortion sleep peacefully in their beds at night whilst the mother of the aborted child is left to “hear” her baby calling out to her. Is left to “see” her baby every night so she cant sleep. Is left to her lifelong regret over her decision. Is left to grieve for her infant.
So if the images help a mother not enter the human abattoirs, then they are important.
As for the respect for the baby being aborted, more respect is shown to its life if he/she can be helped to live rather than be dismembered.
GraceAngel.
No, the post-abortion woman can be helped by the ministries formed by and for women who have gone through the same thing. You see, we ARE compassionate and merciful, as is our Savior. There are many places to turn for this support. But would YOU reach out to someone you know has stood there with a sign that caused you turmoil and pain?? Even if the sign itself did stop you from going for your abortion, would you feel that sense of caring and concern, even mercy, based on the one physical reality of watching me hold a graphic sign for you to see?

If that is all the abortion-minded woman sees, then she truly feels as if she has NO ONE to help her and that she is totally alone. We who go to the clinic empty-handed except for our rosaries and directions to a CPC, and who offer prayers for everyone going in, are a possibility for women to approach if they want more information about alternatives. I submit to you that NO ONE with a sign is going to be approached with a request for help. They might be spat upon, yelled at, gestured to, or ignored, but they will not be asked for help.

If the shoe were on the other foot, the clinic employees and volunteers would have the biggest, nastiest, ugliest signs and they’d be yelling non-stop at the women going in, That is their temperament and the mental attitude they have. I can feel their venom every time I am at PP. Do you really want to be just like they would be?
 
Sure they deserve compassion, but unless they repent… hmmmm
God is merciful but He is also JUST.

These women who murdered their babies, unless they repent, will have eternity to pay for their mortal sins.

Look at what you have written…“They are scared, they feel trapped; some were raped, they have violent boyfriends or parents, they are coerced, they are lied to…”

…and that’s enough reason to murder a child?

Just because the father is a rapist…so the child must be killed? Listen to yourself you liberal catholic.
Oh I had missed that post! There is a huge misunderstanding here. I’m not saying that legal child killing aka abortion is justified. It never is. I’m not a liberal, May God keep me from that heresy. I’m well aware of what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery “Neither do I condemn you” and also “go and sin no more”.

I was merely presenting the most common reasons/circumstances that bring these women to the abortion clinic. My point was to show where they are emotionally at this point = lost. We need to be careful in the way we reach out to someone who is scared, confused and lost. Being careful, loving and compassionate doesn’t mean that you approve of what they do. They are highly emotional, the whole baby killing issue can make us pro-lifers highly emotional too so let us keep our heads cool and clean when we minister to them. Abortion pictures are very charged emotionally that’s why I think they are undermining our work.
 
GraceAngel, you need to read my other posts on the subject. Agreed on showing the truth, not agreed on the time and place to do it nor on pushing the pictures on vulnerable people to whom they are not intended.

In the people I’ve seen holding graphic pictures I’ve seen anger, disgust, pride, and a tendency to violence. These are not the signs of the Love of Christ. It’s better to stay at home when one can’t control his/her emotions, get over the sin and love the sinner. This includes the abortion doctors and nurses and anybody who supports abortion. Let us pray for their conversion and by our love show them the Mercy of God.

A thought: If you were an alcoholic and driving a car, would it help if as a friend, I was protesting in front of your garage door with a bloody poster of a person crashed in a drunk driving accident? How would your family members, neighbors, friends feel about it? Do all these people need to see the picture? Would it show how much I care about my friend?

PS: have you/ a loved one experienced the grief that you are describing? you can message me if you want. Peace be with you.
YES. to your question.
And I have never in 20 years seen “seen anger, disgust, pride, and a tendency to violence.” Monsignor Reilly does nto encourae, anger pride etc. he and his helpers and us helpers around the world are urged and encouraged to love all including the abortionist.
So I dont know who you saw.
GraceAngel.
 
In the people I’ve seen holding graphic pictures I’ve seen anger, disgust, pride, and a tendency to violence. These are not the signs of the Love of Christ. It’s better to stay at home when one can’t control his/her emotions, get over the sin and love the sinner. This includes the abortion doctors and nurses and anybody who supports abortion. Let us pray for their conversion and by our love show them the Mercy of God.
Where I go for prayer vigils, those signs are held by members of Generation Life, a group of young men and women who are devoted to spreading the chastity message throughout high schools/college campuses. They stand at Planned Parenthood and hold up those 5 foot high graphic signs in peace. They utter nothing except the Rosary, as people drive by. They exhibit no anger, disgust, pride or violence. In one hand, they hold up the sign, in the other hand, they hold their Rosary beads.
 
YES. to your question.
And I have never in 20 years seen “seen anger, disgust, pride, and a tendency to violence.” Monsignor Reilly does nto encourae, anger pride etc. he and his helpers and us helpers around the world are urged and encouraged to love all including the abortionist.
So I dont know who you saw.
GraceAngel.
Hello, sorry I can’t type very much because I injured my finger. To answer you and Rosary Fan, the people I’m talking about are not members of a Catholic organization. Mostly isolated individuals who think they know better because they are Christians and “you shall not kill” is their motto. Mostly Protestants I believe. I’ve heard of violent incidents in other states with the same type of individuals (hitting other prolifers who didn’t agree). some of our local folks say it’s ok to kill an abortionist and so on. they worry me.
 
I would like to add: I’ve been to counseling with a Nun and have attended Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat 2 years ago. It has helped me tremendously to forgive myself for aborting my two babies, to accept God’s forgiveness and to be open to God’s plan for me. Before all I wanted was to find a quiet spot to die, today I want to live to be the woman that God always wanted me to be. rachelsvineyard.org/
Alicia & Gabriel will always be in my heart
 
I would like to add: I’ve been to counseling with a Nun and have attended Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat 2 years ago. It has helped me tremendously to forgive myself for aborting my two babies, to accept God’s forgiveness and to be open to God’s plan for me. Before all I wanted was to find a quiet spot to die, today I want to live to be the woman that God always wanted me to be. rachelsvineyard.org/
Alicia & Gabriel will always be in my heart
Hi beafedor,
May I say I admire you for the courageous words you post here.
I will pray for your two babies.
God Bless,
Colmcille.
 
Hello, sorry I can’t type very much because I injured my finger. To answer you and Rosary Fan, the people I’m talking about are not members of a Catholic organization. Mostly isolated individuals who think they know better because they are Christians and “you shall not kill” is their motto. Mostly Protestants I believe. I’ve heard of violent incidents in other states with the same type of individuals (hitting other prolifers who didn’t agree). some of our local folks say it’s ok to kill an abortionist and so on. they worry me.
Dear Beafedor.
Personally, I never encountered this violent type of protesting. The people with whom I’ve attended prayer vigils have all been peaceful, including the group that has the graphic signs. We are always instructed to NOT indulge in any kind of battling with any negativity we may encounter. As such, when I’m there praying, and someone drives by and gives me “the finger” or yells obsenities at me, I just quietly say a prayer for them and ignore them. This happens to those of us who do not have graphic signs, but are just there praying for a change of heart. We always remain peaceful. As do the ones holding the graphic signs. They are also instructed to not engage in arguments. Most of the people with whom I protest are Catholic, so I can’t speak for anyone else. Occasionally, the girls going into Planned Parenthood do change their minds (praise be to God). I don’t know whether the graphic signs have anything to do with their ultimate decision, but I always thought the truth should be exposed. Most of the girls going in to have their abortions are lied to by the PP staff. The baby is called “a blob of tissue” and dehumanized. I feel like the graphic pictures show the truth of the violence of abortion and also show that it is, in fact, a baby and not a “blob of tissue”, as the abortionists would have you believe. The hope is that the girls going in will see this and if they are on the fence, they will decide not to abort because of the violent nature of abortion. The graphic pictures are also for the benefit of the passers-by who will be in the voting booths. After all, it is the politicians and law makers who are to blame. I’m sure you know (after attending Rachel’s Vinyard) that you, too, are a victim in need of healing. Thank God you took the steps to heal. Many do not and are ruined as a result of their abortions.
 
I would like to add: I’ve been to counseling with a Nun and have attended Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat 2 years ago. It has helped me tremendously to forgive myself for aborting my two babies, to accept God’s forgiveness and to be open to God’s plan for me. Before all I wanted was to find a quiet spot to die, today I want to live to be the woman that God always wanted me to be. rachelsvineyard.org/
Alicia & Gabriel will always be in my heart
Hello Beafedor,
those who would want an abortionist or staff killed are not Christians they are a law unto themselves. I am reminded of Jesus saying “Be gone I know you not”

Maybe you Alicia and Gabriel are great friends with Mirian and Joseph my little treasures.
Keep well remember God and our babies love us.
GraceAngel.
 
Hi beafedor,
May I say I admire you for the courageous words you post here.
I will pray for your two babies.
God Bless,
Colmcille.
Thank you so much, even though Courage is the virtue that I lack the most. God Bless you too.
 
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