Greek grammar?

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I will look it up when I have the time.

When did Greek grammar as a disciple develop?

Was the New Testament written with spaces and punctuation?

THANKS!
 
I wanted to say, when did Greek grammar as a discipline develop?

e_c, THANKS!

e_c, if I understood you, the Greek grammar as a discipline did not yet exist.

If it did, it was in its infancy.

THANKS!
 
When did Greek grammar as a disciple develop?

Was the New Testament written with spaces and punctuation?

THANKS!
As I understand it, the monks started with spaces and lower case, mostly in the Latin though.

If by grammar, you mean inflections, I think the Koine version is the one you want.
 
[

There are extensive scholia to the Techne, which have been edited by A. Hilgard in 1901: Scholia in Dionysii Thracis Artem Grammaticam, recensuit et apparatum criticum indicesque adiecit Alfredus Hilgard, Lipsiae: in aedibus B.G. Teubneri 1901. The collections of scholia are the following: Prolegomena Vossiana (p.1); Commentarius Melampodis seu Diomedis (p. 10); Commentarius Heliodori (p. 67); Scholiorum collectio Vaticana (p. 106); Scholiorum collectio Marciana (p. 292); Scholiorum collectio Londinensis (p. 442); Commentariolus Byzantinus (pp. 565–586).

(Greek[di.o.ný.si.os ho tʰrâːɪ̯ks]Koine[di.o.ný.si.os ho tʰrâːks]HellenisticgrammarianAristarchus of SamothraceThraceAlexandriaRhodesGreek*Art of Grammar*Tékhnē grammatikémorphologicalsyntaxArmenianSyriacChristianTékhnēpoetsproseAttic GreekHomeric textsKoine[1]Notes](Dionysius Thrax - Wikipedia)

I am thinking there were earlier remarks and even works on Greek grammar in Athens, and that Aristotle contributed to the discussion in some of his works.
 
THANKS!

I have asked my questions poorly; I apologize!

At the writing of the New Testament, would the writers have been as knowledgeably as our modern exegesis is?

Would St. Paul or those helping him write know of all of the grammar rules that we apply to his texts today?

THANKS!
 
THANKS!

I have asked my questions poorly; I apologize!

At the writing of the New Testament, would the writers have been as knowledgeably as our modern exegesis is?
Hmmm…

There is a lot of material today on how to understand grammar, syntax, vocabulary, etc. Bear in mind that our perspective is from a distance: we do not approach Koine as native speakers or as people who spoke Aramaic and then learned Greek as a second language. We are outside the language, they were inside it. They certainly were aware of what sounded right to their ear, just as a native English speaker today has an ear for the language. They learned Greek at a certain time and place; we look at and compare Greek over time and at differences between say Athens and Alexandria. They knew intuitively what we perceive analytically. So I hesitate to compare who understands the language better.
Would St. Paul or those helping him write know of all of the grammar rules that we apply to his texts today?
I am not sure when they came up with the accents, but I think it was after Paul’s time, so I don’t think he knew those. As I wrote above, I think he could intuitively state what we have to go look up in a paradigm. But probably he had a lot of study, just as you studied grammar in school. Do you consciously recall all the English grammar rules they taught you in grade school when you say or write something? If so, that would be at least unusual…
 
Tomyris

A huge thank you for your time, energy and love.

I am not concerned about who knew more.

I am concerned about exegesis turning into eisegesis.

So, in your judgment, is there a danger for an exegete to read into the texts something that the divinely inspired author were not doing?

THANKS!

It is way over my ability and talent.

If you can help, thanks!
 
Ha! The ancient world was full of Greek language teachers and books about Greek grammar! More, it was full of teachers and books about Greek rhetoric - ie, the appropriate use of Greek figures of speech, as well as how to compose and deliver both oratory and written works. You were supposed to study Homer and the other epics, the classical Athenian tragedies, speeches by guys like Demosthenes, contemporary great writers… on and on. Every young Roman man whose dad thought he needed polish was sent to Athens to learn Greek rhetoric in Greek; and most rich Romans in Paul’s time had Greek slaves (paedagogues) to teach their kids Greek from early childhood. (Sorta like English kids with French governesses, except for the whole slave part.)

So yes, if Paul wanted to study, he surely could.

However… why would he, except for polish? (And he probably did take a bit of rhetoric, because he does use rhetorical figures like an educated man.)

Paul grew up in Tarsus!! It was a Greek-speaking town!! The man spoke Greek like a native (or at least Asia-Minor-style Greek), because he was a native speaker! If anything, Paul’s Greek is difficult to follow because he makes it do things that only a native speaker would make it do.

(Aramaic and Hebrew would have been only his second and third languages, unless his parents spoke Aramaic at home.)

So yes, Paul knows exactly what he’s saying when he is saying it in Greek. He understands the grammatical implications of his words a lot better than a native English speaker understand the implications of English, because that sort of thing was a focus of both classical and rabbinical education - whereas we moderns tend to ignore it.
 
You’re welcome!

Oh, and here are some interesting things about how the Greeks marked scrolls and codices (books with spines and pages):

Re: spacing - No, the ancient world didn’t invent spacing. Monks did that. As late as St. Isidore of Seville, you have him saying that a lector (which of course was a clerical office back then) had to be knowledgeable, so that he “could understand where the paragraph is to end, as well as where the meaning of the sentence should be placed, and where the last statement should be brought to a close.”

You also read in the Fathers about people making mistakes about what is attached to what in a sentence, and thus making doctrinal errors. Spacing and paragraphing helped out a lot.

However, the ancient Greeks and Romans did have chapter headings and numbers (very useful as a finding aid on scrolls!) as well as some other indication markers. Galen the physician talks in his Peri Alupias about the paragraphos marker, the coronis, the period, and the comma. Here’s another post that shows the marks.

There was also a system of “invisible” punctuation in some Greek manuscripts, where blanks of various lengths were used to divide thoughts rather than sentences. Here’s a post about it.

Hope this helped!
 
Mintaka:

I have another question.

When one reads Origen, he regularly establishes the literal text.

Then he goes on to explain the other meanings.

I have always felt that is what he meant by the literal meaning, that is, the actual text. He did for his reader what the lectors did when reading in Church.

So, is the idea of the “literal” getting to the actual sentence structure?

THANKS!
 
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