Greek Melkite and Roman attending a Greek Orthodox church

[bpbasilphx]

Seems to me though, whenever the Roman Pope or Bishops have had ecumenical services with oue Greek Orthodox bretheren, they probably shared Communion.

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**Seems wrong.

They didn’t.

Even when the Ecumenical Patriarch visited Rome, he was NOT wearing Eucharistic Vesture, and left the altar before the Offertory and remained there.

When the Pope returned the visit to Constantinople, he sat OUTSIDE the Iconostas and did not receive Communion.**

 

[5Loaves]

At the time my husband’s exploration of Greek Orthodoxy was taking place, I was visiting a Catholic priest regularly for spiritual direction. This priest had a canon law degree and had sat on the diocesan marriage tribunal. He was very much orthodox (in the small ‘o’ sense). I told him all about our situation, but he never mentioned the possibility that I could “count” Orthodox Divine Liturgy as my Sunday obligation. Perhaps he wasn’t as familiar with that part of canon law, or else he didn’t want to bring it up unless or until it became clear there was no other alternative.

I’d have to respectfully disagree with Ghosty that we can fulfill our Sunday and Holy Day obligation in an Orthodox church, unless there truly is no Catholic church available (in which case we are in fact dispensed from the obligation according to canon law.) I would look to a Melkite priest for additional help with this question.

I would very much encourage you to seek out a spiritual father for direction about all of this. There are priests, bi-ritual or not, who have an understanding of these issues. I think having spiritual direction with a priest who isn’t familiar and comfortable with the ECs isn’t a great idea.

We have a daughter, now 13, who is mildly autistic…
As it turned out, however, she did go through a regular CCD class and received her first Communion “on time” (8 years old). Now I have to get her ready for Confirmation, which the DRE at our parish thinks should not be a problem – the fact that she attends Mass every Sunday, knows the Ten Commandments and all her prayers, enjoys praying the rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, and recognizes many of the saints puts her way ahead of a lot of “normal” Catholic kids her age But, I digress.

I’m so glad to hear you’ve had a good experience with this, SPRED or another form of CCD for children with special needs. My daughter is severely multihandicapped and received all her Sacraments of Initiation many years ago. I marvel at her very natural relationship to the Trinity and our Lady. She has tremendous “limitations” but I have seen that in this she has a greater faith than many who are not disabled, and her faith is a powerful force in her life every day, thanks be to God!

Your family is in my prayers.

 

[5Loaves]

Christ is in our midst!

Over three quarters of the Eastern churches returned to the authority of Rome…

Where does that figure come from?

Unless the OP lives in a small village I find it hard to believe that she cannot find an Eastern Catholic Church where her husband could attend and she could legitimately accompany him.

There are 23 Roman rite parishes within 15-20 minutes of my house. There are 35 within a half hour’s drive. Every one of these has mutliple Masses every weekend.

In contrast there are 9 ECC’s within the two local Diocese. All but one offer a single Divine Liturgy on Sunday- and it offers two, neither in English. It takes me an hour to drive to my parish, and then perhaps another 15-20 minutes to find parking and walk to the church. The others are all more than an hour’s drive away, except an Eritrean Catholic Ge’ez community where English is not the vernacular of the Liturgy.

For times, like yesterday’s Feast of the Beheading of St. John the Baptist, when my tiny parish has no Liturgy, I go to an Orthodox parish for the Liturgy, apostolic Christians, not “outside our religion.”

But, I give up. I will continue to pray for the OP so that she will not leave the Catholic faith to attend a church outside of our religion. And in such an important matter, why would she accept the advice of posters on a Catholic Forum instead of discussing this matter with her own Parish Priest?

Hopefully her parish priest would recognize his limitation in this sphere and refer her to a priest or deacon familiar with the ECCs for these important concerns, which indeed do need pastoral support and guidance.

I appreciate your frustration, honestly , but please appreciate the frustration of the EC Catholics who in fact do not live in small villages, I live in a major metropolitan area, but lack access to their patrimony. Please pray that the desire of the Second Vatican Council and of our popes then and since might be fully realized- that the Churches of the East be restored and flourish.

These are very difficult challenges. It is so much more than fulfilling one’s Sunday/Feast Day obligation, which I’m sure you must have some sense of. It has much to do with a different communion, not of the Holy Eucharist but of a sacramental liturgical world view which is unlike the Latin church’s ethos.

God Bless. - Mary

 

[djkane01220]

The Eastern Orthodox churches along with the Oriental Orthodox Churches while in schism with Rome have valid orders and apostolic succession. Pope John Paul the Great compared the orthodox church and the catholic church as the 2 lungs of the world.

While its not acceptable to attend an Orthodox church for no reason and figure that it meets the weekly mass requirements. If the OP’s husband is a Greek Melkite Catholic and there is no other church in the area that follows his Rite then he should maybe be able to get a dispensation from his bishop and the bishop of the Orthodox church to follow his Rite in the Greek Orthodox Church and receive the sacraments, provided that he understands and keeps his communion with Rome.

As for the OP herself while she may be a Latin-Rite Catholic by canon law she should support her husband in any religulous matters as long as they are not heretical in nature. Attendance at the GOC would fulfill her weekly obligation. It is a valid church though in schism with Rome. She may want to also attend a Latin Rite mass though and take communion there.

All good Catholic’s be they Roman, Orthodox, or Oriental are in the grace of God and following a true but divided church.

 

[elizaveta]

Actually, the OP would be covered by the Canon I cited, so she’s clear to attend the Greek Orthodox Church without needing to attend a Latin one (at least by my, and most other Eastern Catholic, interpretations). Remember, it’s not a denial of the Catholic Faith in any way, shape, or form./QUOTE]

Actually it is.

Please don’t confuse the Orthodox church with the Eastern Rite Catholic church just because they share a form of liturgy. They might look similar on the outside, but they are very different churches. In fact, many Orthodox scholars and theologians consider the Catholic and Protestant church to be more closely related than the Catholic and Orthodox church.

The Orthodox church does not accept any of the dogmatic pronouncements of the RC church after about 800 AD. But Catholics are required to believe them. We do not believe in the primacy or infallability of the Pope, the Immaculate conception, purgatory, and there are numerous others.

It is difficult to believe that for a RC to attend an Orthodox church would fulfill your Sunday obligation. Regular attendance would imply that you believed that the Orthodox teachings are true and would be an implicit ackowledgement that the RC church is in error. It is hard to see how this could ever fulfill your requirement to worship as a RC.

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§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

The important thing here is it must be “physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister”, and that isn’t the case here. It is a matter of convenience from what I can see.

Also, although the RC church “allows” you to go to the Orthodox for the sacraments it is forbidden by the Orthodox church. It is done sometimes for compelling reasons (if you’re dying, for example), but they are exceptions.

Nor would any Orthodox priest that I’ve ever met allow you to take communion in their Church because you decided it would be “better” for you to do so. In fact at every Liturgy I’ve attended where the priest knew that there were non-Orthodox present they always made an announcement before communion that it is only for baptised, chrismated orthodox who have prepared by fasting and confession.

It is the norm when attending an OC other then your home parish to introduce yourself to the priest before approaching for communion. Once while I was on vacation I ended up in the wrong line for communion by accident. Since that priest had no idea who I was he spent a few minutes grilling me. Luckily, one of the parishioners who knew me well came up and vouched for me. It was only then that the priest would commune me.

When I converted from the RCC to the OC it took me a year of study before I was allowed to join and at no time before I was admitted into the OC was I ever allowed to take communion. The priest said that if I was dying that he would give me the sacraments, but only then.

I hope that none of this offends you, that isn’t my desire. II just wanted you to understand the Orthodox position. Also you need to know that many Orthodox Christians (especially the Priests, Bishops etc) will have a much stricter view of what is allowed/proper than many of their RC counterparts.

 

[elizaveta]

There were a bunch of posts while I was composing my last one. I don’t feel the desire to read or answer them all, but there is something that everyone needs to understand from the Orthodox perspective.

As far as the OC is concerned the Orthodox church and the Roman Catholic church are not in communion.

Wanting us to be one church doesn’t make it so - I wish it did, I really do. My life would be infinitely more peaceful and happy if it did. But the reality is that the OC will never accept full communion with the RCC unless the RCC renounces many of the post 800 AD dogmas. Which I can’t see happening.

Also, the OC does not consider the RCC a “sister church” or one of “two lungs” - it considers itself the one and only true and complete Church of God and Christ on earth and that all other churches (including the RCC) are in error when they differ from it.

I’m not saying that I agree with all this, just that it’s the position of the OC,

I really do hope that the differences will be overcome and that there would be, at last, a healing of the 1000 year wounding of Christ’s church, but I just don’t see how.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Of course, we should always keep in mind that there is no universal rule in the Orthodox Churches in regard to Catholics.

There is regular intercommunion among Eastern Orthodox and Catholics in the Antiochian Greek Orthodox Patriarchate, Melkite Catholic Patriarchate, and Roman Catholic in the Middle East. The Syriac Orthodox and Catholics have intercommunion agreement recognized and signed by the Patriarch and Pope John Paul II of blessed memory. The Armenian Apostolic Church and Catholics also have intercommunion agreements. The Malankara Orthodox position is fluid in regard to Catholics and intercommunion may be possible in certain circumstances.

And so it goes…

 

[Cluny]

Sorta makes me think, “What if they gave a schism and nobody came?”

 

[elizaveta]

Sorta makes me think, “What if they gave a schism and nobody came?”

Thanks Cluny - I needed a good laugh!

 

[Ignatius]

Well, in this case they are fed at the Orthodox parish because it is of the Rite the husband practices. It’s not necessarily because of anything lacking in the Latin Church, other than the fact that it’s Latin and not Byzantine; even if they had the most orthodox and beautiful Latin parish, this would still be an issue.

Mullenpm: The Canon does indeed cover the OP’s situation, since it would be spiritual advantageous for her to attend and receive (if allowed) Communion. She’s not indicated any indifference to the Catholic Faith; as Aramis pointed out, the fact that she’s raising the question here indicates that she’s anything but indifferent.

As for her having to attend a Catholic Liturgy as well, there’s no obligation to do so since the Orthodox Liturgy fulfills her obligation. I would even say that making such a double obligation smacks of the Pharisees who were rebuked by Jesus for tying people up with heavy burdens and not lifting a finger to help. I’m not accusing you of doing so, I’m just saying that the approach in general fits the bill, IMO.

Peace and God bless!

Couldn’t this be easily solved by the wife getting the blessing of her own Latin local ordinary to attend the Orthodox Divine Liturgy?

 

[Ghosty]

Couldn’t this be easily solved by the wife getting the blessing of her own Latin local ordinary to attend the Orthodox Divine Liturgy?

It would certainly smooth things over quite a bit, but there would still be those who would claim that the Latin priest is overstepping their authority in the matter. Either way, the blessing of the priest isn’t strictly required.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Aramis]

My advice to the OP would be to make it a part-time praxis… every other week at most… to retain her own Latin Spirituality and visible communion with Rome, and whether communed or not, to attend with her husband the GO parish on the alternate weeks.

Now, if the GO church communes him, great for him. (It’s not really that unlikely.) If not, then he should, at least annually, preferably more often, attend a latin parish to meet the canonical obligation to receive the Eucharist.