Greek or Ukrainian Catholic

[Loreen2012]

I’ve posted a couple of threads asking questions about if accepted into the Catholic faith, where I would be accepted.

I found out I am baptized as Greek Orthodox. I know if accepted into the Catholic faith I would be Eastern Rite. My question is, because I was baptized Greek Orthodox, does that mean I would be part of the Greek Catholic Church? I am wondering as my heritage is Ukrainian and would like to be accepted into the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Is this possible and how would I do that?

Thank you all for your time and help in this, and previous, posts.

 

[Domnall]

Hi There. Well, technically you belong to the ritual Church of your father. That is, if I do remember that big correctly.

So, if your father is ritually Ukrainian (based on your heritage) rather than Greek, then you would become Ukrainian Catholic upon acceptance into the Church.

It doesn’t actually matter which church you were baptized in. For example, even if, say a child of Melkite Catholic parents was baptized in a Roman Catholic church, the child would still be Melkite by virtue of the child’s father being Melkite.

Does this make sense?

 

[Terry_Washingto]

Dear Loreen

I admit that I am no theologian but I did have an Ukrainian friend Olga who apparently grew up in Poland. As the Catholics of the Eastern rite( to give them their polite and proper title- “Uniate” is considered to be offensive if not insulting) celebrate Christmas on January 6 or 7 just as thier cousins in the Russian Orthodox Church did, she said that the Poles used to ridicule the Ukrainians). Just remember that the Greek rite Catholic Church may have a different liturgy than the mainstream RC Church but it acknowledges the Holy Father as its head and has its own proud history including martyrs under Soviet Communist rule like Blessed Theodor Romzha and Blessed Grigoryi Lakota- whom I suspect inspired Morris West’s fictional Pope in “The Shoes Of The Fisherman” novel, Kiril Lakota!

Terry

 

[malphono]

I’ve posted a couple of threads asking questions about if accepted into the Catholic faith, where I would be accepted.

I found out I am baptized as Greek Orthodox. I know if accepted into the Catholic faith I would be Eastern Rite. My question is, because I was baptized Greek Orthodox, does that mean I would be part of the Greek Catholic Church? I am wondering as my heritage is Ukrainian and would like to be accepted into the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Is this possible and how would I do that?

Thank you all for your time and help in this, and previous, posts.

Ah, OK, that clarifies a few things. If the parents were Ukrainian Orthodox, the children are also of the same Church. I suspect that it’s likely the case that the only Orthodox church in the area was the Greek one, hence the confusion. I don’t really know the custom among the Orthodox, but there may well be a notation on the baptismal record.

In any case, it appears that you are, in fact, Ukrainian Orthodox, which means that upon your profession of faith, you will be received into the UGCC. If I were in your position, I’d have a chat with the UGCC pastor to make sure everything is clear.

 

[Loreen2012]

Sorry all, I just got clarification from my father. I was baptized as Ukrainian Greek Orthodox, so I think that helps to clarify.

 

[Aramis]

I’ve posted a couple of threads asking questions about if accepted into the Catholic faith, where I would be accepted.

I found out I am baptized as Greek Orthodox. I know if accepted into the Catholic faith I would be Eastern Rite. My question is, because I was baptized Greek Orthodox, does that mean I would be part of the Greek Catholic Church? I am wondering as my heritage is Ukrainian and would like to be accepted into the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Is this possible and how would I do that?

Thank you all for your time and help in this, and previous, posts.

You would be ascribed to the Greek Greek Catholic Church. (don’t worry, I didn’t stutter there…)

You can practice in any church. The ritual transfer would be nearly automatic if desired.

 

[malphono]

You would be ascribed to the Greek Greek Catholic Church. (don’t worry, I didn’t stutter there…)

Since when, pray tell, does Ukrainian = Greek? Last time I checked there was a whole lot of difference.

Since the OP has clearly stated her ethnic lineage is Ukrainian, I highly doubt the OP would be ascribed to the Greek Church. In such case, I continue to hold that, at the time of her transfer, she will be ascribed to UGCC. But, as I said earlier, IK think it would be in OP’s interest to discuss the matter with the UGCC pastor in advance in order to avoid any unnecessary confusion.

You can practice in any church.

Yes, quite true, with the caveat about matrimony (and, for males, Holy Orders).

The ritual transfer would be nearly automatic if desired.

Which “transfer” would be nearly automatic?

 

[theistgal]

Just out of curiosity … have you asked a priest, or someone who’s actually in a position of authority? Because that’s probably where you should start. I doubt anyone on this forum really knows the “final answer”.

 

[Loreen2012]

Yes, I have talked with both a Roman Catholic Priest as well as a Ukrainian Catholic priest. The place that has all records of church baptisms of Ukrainian Orthodox cannot find a record of my baptism. The church I was baptized in was closed a long time ago.

 

[Aramis]

Since when, pray tell, does Ukrainian = Greek? Last time I checked there was a whole lot of difference.

Since the OP has clearly stated her ethnic lineage is Ukrainian, I highly doubt the OP would be ascribed to the Greek Church. In such case, I continue to hold that, at the time of her transfer, she will be ascribed to UGCC. But, as I said earlier, IK think it would be in OP’s interest to discuss the matter with the UGCC pastor in advance in order to avoid any unnecessary confusion.

Yes, quite true, with the caveat about matrimony (and, for males, Holy Orders).

Which “transfer” would be nearly automatic?

She was baptized in the Greek church.
Transfer from the Greek to the Ukrainian at translation from Orthodoxy is nigh automatic.

 

[Peter_J]

If I were in your position, I’d have a chat with the UGCC pastor to make sure everything is clear.

I quite agree. While internet forums may seem like the ultimate panacea, they really aren’t.

 

[Peter_J]

She was baptized in the Greek church.
Transfer from the Greek to the Ukrainian at translation from Orthodoxy is nigh automatic.

I myself had thought that Loreen was baptized in the Orthodox Church of Greece. But earlier today she clarified that she is Ukrainian Orthodox.

 

[Loreen2012]

I have found that since the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada can not find my records, and the church I was baptized in is now gone, I am stuck. I am disappointed as I would have loved to be welcomed into the Ukrainian Catholic Church to blend both faiths I have always been taught. At the same time I feel since there is no record of my baptism that I do not really belong to the Ukrainian Orthodox church either, even though I know I was baptized at St. Marys Orthodox Ukrainian church.

I am not sure where to go from here. They said I can fill out a form and get my godparents to verify I was baptized there, but one is passed on and the other we do not know where he is and I cannot recall his name. So I am hoping that they either are able to find it or I will just remain Orthodox and will not be welcomed to the catholic faith. I am disappointed and frustrated.

Does anyone know where I can go from here? I find myself with an insurmountable number of obstacles. Can I still consider myself Ukrainian Orthodox even though my baptism records are lost, and I cannot profess my Eastern Catholic faith without it either. Disappointed.

 

[Peter_J]

Hmmm … I quite sympathize with your predicament – not that I would leave Orthodoxy if I were Orthodox, but I sympathize with the fact that circumstances beyond your control have messed up your plans.

As to your question,

Can I still consider myself Ukrainian Orthodox even though my baptism records are lost,

it seems pretty certain to me that the answer is Yes, but you should probably ask Orthodox about that.

 

[Loreen2012]

Hmmm … I quite sympathize with your predicament – not that I would leave Orthodoxy if I were Orthodox, but I sympathize with the fact that circumstances beyond your control have messed up your plans.

As to your question,

it seems pretty certain to me that the answer is Yes, but you should probably ask Orthodox about that.

Why wouldn’t you want to leave Orthodoxy if you were Orthodoxy? Sorry if that is personal just curious

 

[Peter_J]

Why wouldn’t you want to leave Orthodoxy if you were Orthodoxy? Sorry if that is personal just curious

It’s quite alright, no need to be sorry.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure I can explain it. (I find it’s often hard to explain a negative.)

 

[Aramis]

I have found that since the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada can not find my records, and the church I was baptized in is now gone, I am stuck. I am disappointed as I would have loved to be welcomed into the Ukrainian Catholic Church to blend both faiths I have always been taught. At the same time I feel since there is no record of my baptism that I do not really belong to the Ukrainian Orthodox church either, even though I know I was baptized at St. Marys Orthodox Ukrainian church.

Actually, this makes life much easier… You can be directly received into the UGCC with conditional baptism and chrismation.

 

[Anastasia13]

Actually, this makes life much easier… You can be directly received into the UGCC with conditional baptism and chrismation.

Conditional baptism and chrismation??? If he was baptized Orthodox, he would also be chrismated already and validly according to the Catholic Church, so why not simply on a profession of faith like other Orthodox to Catholic converts?

 

[Peter_J]

Conditional baptism and chrismation??? If he was baptized Orthodox, he would also be chrismated already and validly according to the Catholic Church, so why not simply on a profession of faith like other Orthodox to Catholic converts?

because of:

I have found that since the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada can not find my records, and the church I was baptized in is now gone, I am stuck.

 

[IsidoreOfKiev]

You are not really stuck.

Most of the Ukrainians I know have no documentation of the Baptism or Chrismation because they were baptized during communism, when no records could be kept. After communism, whole parishes just changed over from Moscow Patriarchate to UGCC. There was no documentation done.

You would have to talk to a priest, but if there is no positive doubt that you were baptized you can be received into the Catholic Church by a profession of Faith. The Union of Brest does not require you to insert the Filioque in the Creed either.