Greek Orthodox Bishops accuse Pope of heresy

[Kts1816]

Yes,Orthodox church is the one that avoids unity…dont like this…but brand them as heretics from nowdays view is very strong…
When will Christ come again…

 

[Vonsalza]

So they are united in their jealousy of Rome?

I genuinely think that’s been the primary binder for wider Orthodoxy for its entire existence as an entity distinct from the Catholic Church.

 

[Kathleen18]

That would explain our fellow CAF’ers Profete’s rant…
But not why he went after Vatican II. As a (?) Orthodox, why would he care about it? And be so concerned over us Protestants joining. Especially if he was saying “The Orthodox Church which prays unceasingly for unity with all.” Or something to that effect.

 

[Kts1816]

I never understood why there are so many independent Orthodox churches even Old style Orthodox church,Armenian church…the problem is not Rome…
All catholic churches are obeying to Pope thats what i like very much

 

[Vonsalza]

I never understood why there are so many independent Orthodox churches even Old style Orthodox church,Armenian church…the problem is not Rome…
All catholic churches are obeying to Pope thats what i like very much

Factionalization is an even greater problem with any organization that lacks a central authority. That goes for Church, government, work, whatever.

The Orthodox Church has tremendous difficulty deciding anything because of their broken structure. There isn’t even an official document that is binding upon all of Orthodoxy that clearly states that Catholics are outside the Church.

It’s a joke, really.

 

[Kts1816]

True
They have other problems,too…
But its a long discussion…Lets pray instead of critisizing

 

[Vonsalza]

True
They have other problems,too…
But its a long discussion…Lets pray instead of critisizing

I agree entirely. I really like Orthodoxy - spent awhile as a Catechumen.

But we need to be aware that when folks like Profete post something Orthodox-Affirming like a snip from the Synod at Crete, folks need to realize that per the leadership structure of Orthodoxy itself, that isn’t a statement on behalf of Orthodoxy as a whole - only the specific Orthodox that attended the Synod - and even then the proclamation might only be binding upon the attendees and not thw wider church they represent.

It’s just telling the other side, too. Which is necessary.

 

[NuclearReceptor]

Perhaps they have a distorted idea of what Petrine primacy, papal authority, papal infallibility, etc actually entail…

Like Protestants, once they find out what is and isn’t actually the Catholic viewpoint, perhaps they’ll be more…amenable…

 

[AlNg]

If you can reform the Liturgy to accommodate Protestants and the world, you could reform papacy to accommodate Orthodox Church. Why not?

Yes. There are Catholic theologians who have written about reforming the teaching on the papacy so as to make the teaching closer to the way it was understood 1500 years ago.

 

[AlNg]

Kts1816:

I never understood why there are so many independent Orthodox churches even Old style Orthodox church,Armenian church…the problem is not Rome…
All catholic churches are obeying to Pope thats what i like very much

Factionalization is an even greater problem with any organization that lacks a central authority. That goes for Church, government, work, whatever.

The Orthodox Church has tremendous difficulty deciding anything because of their broken structure. There isn’t even an official document that is binding upon all of Orthodoxy that clearly states that Catholics are outside the Church.

It’s a joke, really.

You might as well forget about any dialog or ecumenical relations with the Orthodox if you are intent on insulting Orthodox Christians by believing that the Orthodox church is a joke or that its structure is a joke. This is something that was believed by Catholic soldiers in the fourth Crusade as they stormed into the Greek Orthodox churches with their horses, trampled the Eucharist, had sex with prostitutes on the altars of the Church, and looted all the gold and precious jewels that they could find.

 

[Kts1816]

Dont insult the faith of the others.-Pope Francis

 

[guanophore]

Well that is strange, because you have reformed at Vatican II your Liturgy to accommodate Protestants.

What an odd thing to say. What does that mean?

You act like we HAVE to listen to these Greek Orthodox, even though as someone else pointed out, they aren’t even representative of their entire group.

This is part of the problem in seeking unity. The centrality of leadership is geographical, and many of the sui juris churches don’t agree with each other.

So because your Liturgy was not like in the 5th century, you have decided to rewrite it with many Protestant authors? Or was that a pathetic attempt to cope with the youth affected with the sexual revolution? So you thought if you play guitars at parish, youth will choose Novus Ordo Mass over sex?

lol

Can you point me to a source on this? I have no idea what you are talking about here.

If you can reform the Liturgy to accommodate Protestants and the world, you could reform papacy to accommodate Orthodox Church. Why not?

How does the Novus Ordo better conform to the “world”?

You even reduced Liturgical robes for the priests. They don’t even wear cossacks.

I found this ironic. I understand it was manner of dress and haircuts that was one of the things that precipitated conflicts between East and West before the Schism.

St. Photius in 9th century, warned the west that even smallest departure from Tradition will lead to doom, or for example Clown Mass.

A just warning, but liturgical abuse does not equate to “doom” or a departure from tradition.

This is something that was believed by Catholic soldiers in the fourth Crusade as they stormed into the Greek Orthodox churches with their horses, trampled the Eucharist, had sex with prostitutes on the altars of the Church, and looted all the gold and precious jewels that they could find.

Let’s not make the mistake of thinking that the majority of the soldiers who participated in the Crusades were good Catholics. These are not the actions of any Catholic of good faith, which reflects that the motives of those who participated in the crusades were anything but holy in many cases.

 

[Augustinian]

Well that is strange, because you have reformed at Vatican II your Liturgy to accommodate Protestants.

What an odd thing to say. What does that mean?

When the vernacular liturgy was introduced back in the day, that’s what a lot of people said.

On a superficial basis, the Latin language was one of the biggest differences that an observer would notice between Catholicism and Protestantism.

 

[boclucky14]

majority of the soldiers who participated in the Crusades were good Catholics

I’d like to point out that the 4th Crusade was a beast of itself, and there are some Crusades that better followed proper protocol (although, no matter the reason behind it, in the end, war is hell). The Pope condemned the actions of the Venetians and the crusaders that attacked Constantinople (which was also done at the request by Alexios IV, who was sent into exile by Alexios III when he staged a coup against Alexios IV’s father, Isaac II).

Also, we also can’t pretend that the Orthodox of the time were a beacon of light either. The Massacre of the Latins is a prime example of that. Having said all that, yes, you are correct. The leaders, at the very least, of this entire situation were very corrupt people. We shouldn’t be attempting to throw blame around, but rather remember that Christians are sinners - Catholic and Orthodox alike - always have been and always will be. We shouldn’t hold the sins of those long dead against those living today.

 

[stavros388]

The triumphalist attitude exhibited here is just one of the many reasons I left the Orthodox Church(es) and became Catholic years ago.

 

[stavros388]

You’re right, of course. I, for one, was triggered.

 

[Vonsalza]

Catholic soldiers in the fourth Crusade as they stormed into the Greek Orthodox churches with their horses, trampled the Eucharist, had sex with prostitutes on the altars of the Church, and looted all the gold and precious jewels that they could find.

Those men that committed those wrongs and those that were wronged are centuries dead. I owe you nothing and you are owed nothing for their actions.

 

[AlNg]

Those men that committed those wrongs and those that were wronged are centuries dead. I owe you nothing and you are owed nothing for their actions.

So it is all right for Catholics to keep the stolen artifacts in their Churches even today? Have you read about St. Mark’s Cathedral?
Anyway, the question I was concerned with was not a question of restitution, although this is a legitimate question. The question I was concerned with is whether or not the Orthodox church or the structure of the Orthodox church is a joke. As mentioned above, I think it is quite insulting to insist such.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Those men that committed those wrongs and those that were wronged are centuries dead. I owe you nothing and you are owed nothing for their actions.

So it is all right for Catholics to keep the stolen artifacts in their Churches even today? Have you read about St. Mark’s Cathedral?

Yes I have. Probably the greatest artifacts they took in the fall of Constantinople were the bronze horses.

Does the Orthodox Church claim to own all property previously owned by Byzantium? That’s quite a radical claim…

Anyway, the question I was concerned with was not a question of restitution, although this is a legitimate question.

No it isn’t because it never stops. If the descendants of the Venetians that sacked Constantinople owe you reparations, how much in reparations do the children of Imperial Byzantium owe the residents of the Mediterranean world? Particularly Egypt?

The question I was concerned with is whether or not the Orthodox church or the structure of the Orthodox church is a joke. As mentioned above, I think it is quite insulting to insist such.

It’s one of the main reasons that sent me “Rome-ward”.

 

[Vonsalza]

You mean the chap who knights and awards pro abortion campaigners, whilst talking about how people in the Falklands have no rights to their own homes and wades in on politics he has no business in - all whilst angering all of the centuries old institutions in the church itself and alienating 99% of the Roman Curia as if they are irrelevant?

Hmm. I wonder why he was accused of anything

Care to elaborate? Are you referring to our present pope? I genuinely wasn’t aware he could knight people…