Greek specialists help please

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I’m sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but I didn’t see anything anywhere about questions and topics concerning the original language of scripture.
I have a question that I’ve wondered about for a while, but I’ve never really studied the Greek language very much.
(I made the choice to focus on Hebrew instead, because the focus of my study has been the old testament.)

My question concerns two phrases used to describe Mary and Jesus which I’ve seen both translated as “full of grace”.

Mary κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitomeni) Luke 1:28
Jesus πλήρης χάριτος (pliris charitos) John 1:14

They both seem to use the word charit- but with different conjugations, and I sort of recognise pliris as related to “plural” (unless I’m way off).
I used this parallel as a proof text once in a lesson I taught in RCIA years on Mary to show the parallels between her and the lord that are in scripture but I never really understood the exact grammatical difference between the two phrases.
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Basically, one’s a noun and one’s a verb.

Kecharitomene is is the perfect passive form of the verb “grace”, and it literally means “she who has been completely graced.” The perfect tense describes an action that was completed in the past that carries into the present. So in this case, Mary was graced sometime in the past, and because of that she is still graced.

In John 1:14 charitos is being used as a noun in the genitive case. Pleres is just modifying it as an adjective.

I’ve never really thought about the parallels before. That’s interesting. I guess I would just add that the Greek seems to indicate that the grace that Mary has is something she passively received. Whereas that’s not really the case with Jesus. But that makes sense theologically speaking. Mary doesn’t have any grace by her own power, only God has that.

Anyways, not sure if that was any help, but thanks for bringing this topic up. It’s fun to find little things like this in Scripture. 👍
 
Well thank you Robyn, that was very enlightening ^^
Its interesting to see the nuances found in scriptural grammar.
 
Lumdrop said:
I’m sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but I didn’t see anything anywhere about questions and topics concerning the original language of scripture.
I have a question that I’ve wondered about for a while, but I’ve never really studied the Greek language very much.
(I made the choice to focus on Hebrew instead, because the focus of my study has been the old testament.)

My question concerns two phrases used to describe Mary and Jesus which I’ve seen both translated as “full of grace”.

Mary κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitomeni) Luke 1:28
Jesus πλήρης χάριτος (pliris charitos) John 1:14

They both seem to use the word charit- but with different conjugations, and I sort of recognise pliris as related to “plural” (unless I’m way off).
I used this parallel as a proof text once in a lesson I taught in RCIA years on Mary to show the parallels between her and the lord that are in scripture but I never really understood the exact grammatical difference between the two phrases.
Any help would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Re: Mary κεχαριτωμένη,

What that link ( a protestant site) does is refer to tense and voice of the word which is correct, but does NOT link for convenience, to the definition of perfect tense and passive voice of the word used, which is highly important for understanding the full meaning of the word used, and therefore understanding the doctrine in question re: Mary being full of Grace from the beginning.

For convenience, here’s the Greek definitions, just in case you need evidence properly referenced for any future conversations you might have . (all emphasis mine)

Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.
Passive Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is being acted upon, then the verb is referred to as being in the passive voice.
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/verbs1.htm

Re: Jesus πλήρης , χάριτος

Jn 1:14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son,a] full of grace and truth.

accusative noun ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/nouns1.htm

As in, grace freely extended to give Himself away to people
 
Robyn_p said:
Basically, one’s a noun and one’s a verb.

Kecharitomene is is the perfect passive form of the verb “grace”, and it literally means “she who has been completely graced.”
Click to expand...
Actually, it’s a participle. 😉
 
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