Greeting a Kafir

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Yeah, I am more comfortable saying “marhaba”, anyway, since it carries no Islamic connotations. Let them extend peace only to one another…whether or not they say it to us doesn’t matter as much as whether or not they practice it in their relations with non-Muslims, and that is, how shall we say, high variable. :rolleyes:
 
Can I get shirts made up?

Do we need a Yakfur Un-Anonimous group?

Hi, I am Ralph and I am A Kafir?😛

Ok, so assuming that I am a Kafir, does this mean that Muslims are supposed to hate me? Try to convert me one way or another? What is my standing with Muslims at this time?
 
dzheremi said:
Yeah, I am more comfortable saying “marhaba”, anyway, since it carries no Islamic connotations.

t is true that nowadays it carries islamic connotations, but remember that it is in the Bible and many Arab Christians say it, or say salaam al-Masih with you.
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Sister_Amy said:
From the original post

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Zaad al-Ma’aad (2/424), concerning greeting a kaafir first:

A group of scholars said: **It is permissible to greet him first **if that serves a purpose, or for fear of his harm, or because of blood ties, or for a reason that requires that.

I also think it’s worthwhile to point out that “kaafir” does not mean “non-Muslim.” Not every non-Muslim is a “kaafir.”
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Sister,😉 about the red texts,do your Koran and Hadith also think so?
 
This is true. I would have no trouble saying it to Arab Christian friends. We were simply taught that marhaba is the non-religious alternative, in case you don’t know the religion of the person you are talking to. I guess it becomes a reflex from being around the many Saudis here. 🤷
 
Sister_Amy said:
From the original post

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Zaad al-Ma’aad (2/424), concerning greeting a kaafir first:

A group of scholars said: **It is permissible to greet him first **if that serves a purpose, or for fear of his harm, or because of blood ties, or for a reason that requires that.

I also think it’s worthwhile to point out that “kaafir” does not mean “non-Muslim.” Not every non-Muslim is a “kaafir.”
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Do you consider IslamQA a reputable Islamic site? According to them, any unbeliever is a kafir!

See and

Vickie
 
All I can say from experience, is that, knowing full well that I am indeed a Kafir by definition, I also have plenty of Muslim friends, ranging from pretty casual to quite strict, and none of them have ever been hesitant to greet me warmly and familiarly (a few newly come to the US may be shy, but then, they’re also a little concerned with using appropriate language as newcomers…they relax after a little time and practice), and I consider it good form to always return a warm greeting at least as happily and more, to anyone, regardless of faith or lack thereof myself, and to initiate one to the very best of my ability! And that includes salaam alaykum/alaykum salaam regardless of who initiated it.

I can occasionally work in some of the more elaborate, formal greeting in several languages, but hey, among friends, it’s okay, even as when a close friend spots you and says ‘Hey there ol’ pal, so great to see you!’ Arabic is a remarkably poetic, expressive language, and it really is nice to know a few extra ways to express goodwill, but it’s okay, native speakers are very appreciative just with a basic, glad welcome and greeting.

A similar situation would be, perhaps, among French speakers. Yes, they do get a little irked when visitors don’t show a little respect, but if you can even say ‘s’il vous plait’, ‘bonjour’ and ‘merci’, they are amazingly warm and open. People are, by and large, really really nice in my experience (and that’s coming from someone with a big streak of cynicism), but of course, they wish to be treated considerately! And that is wonderful. 🙂
 
Just want to add my 2c worth. Nothing has changed, still the same trolls operating…sad…and for the others I am a Catholic who spends enough time around Muslims to have some idea about their beliefs and also to know that most of what I have read on this forum is Islamophobic and insulting.
I can’t be bothered reading through the entire thread however to respond to the first 2 pages:
Firstly there are some Muslims who do have an arrogant attitude to non-muslims, most don’t.
Secondly, I have never encountered a Muslim who wouldn’t greet me or acknowledge my salams.
Thirdly, some Muslims regard every non muslim as Kufr and it is a derogatory term. Others use it to mean non believer which is NOT synonymous with NON MUSLIM.
Women in Saudi Arabia do not have the same rights as Western women. It is regarded as un representative and moreover an embarassing example of a Muslim majority country. The trolls are trying to get the Muslim respondents on here to defend the indefensible so they can denigrate Islam. There is an Anti-Islam agenda on this forum which has a foul odour and I find embarassing as a Catholic. But heck more than one person on here has questioned whether I am Catholic and one even started a thread about me.
 
Exactly! I’ve read plenty of ridiculous things there, but that does not mean that Muslims find them so. The Muslim mentality is mired in the 7th century and filled with primitive, cruel and draconic teachings, that’s why they continue to advocate to this day, barbaric punisments such as stoning, flogging and cutting off of hands.

Vickie
 
Salaam/peace
Booklover said:
… barbaric punisments such as stoning, flogging and cutting off of hands.
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why Jesus (p) allowed so many
’ barbaric’ punishments in OT ? Was he cruel at that time but later became kind ?
 
fatma said:
Just want to add my 2c worth.
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yes Fatma…and most Muslim women shake hands with non-Muhram men and spend time with them without a male guarding them. No one said all Muslims do not greet kuffar…we are responding to the teachings/fatwa presented in the OP, and these are not based on any agenda but on Islamic teachings…
 
Christians per islamic theology are going to hell if they die as such: Christians. This is due to shirk, the only unforgivable sin in islamic theology.

Shirk means putting any other beings at the same level as the islamic Allah which is unitarian in the strictest sense.
Therefore, believing that Jesus is God, which is a core-Christian doctrine. is shirk.

When the statement comes that “some Christians do not believe Jesus is God”, I would reply that these are not Christians, but heretics and/or apostates that claim to be what they are not.

Pax 🙂
 
Salaam/peace
inJESUS said:
most Muslim women shake hands with non-Muhram men and spend time with them without a male guarding them.
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Most Muslim women do these ? What’s the basis of your accusation ? U visited all Muslim majority countries & saw that most Muslim women are shaking hands with men & spending time with them ?
we are responding to the teachings/fatwa .
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“And Peace (Salaams) to all who follow guidance”.

[Al-Qur’an 20:47]
 
Salaam/peace

That’s a good idea 🙂 I may start doing it . Sometimes though I try hard to avoid the touch of the salesman , it can’t be avoided . It makes me feel very bad . In UK , those who don’t know about the Islamic rules about avoiding the touch , Muslims should explain to them carefully ; so that they don’t take as an insult.
…spending time alone with a man as a sin to be odd as in many cases they could not have live their life without been alone with a tutor, fellow work colleague, personal friend etc.
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if one has no choice but to spend time with male colleague in a room , she should quit that job . With teacher , I hope she has her classmates there. With boyfriend & alone in a room ??? No way.

Prophet (p) told us , when a man & a woman ( gyaer Muharim …marriage is allowed between these two ) are alone in private , third person comes there & that’s the devil.
 
Salaam, Muslim Woman. I have a question, generated from this exchange between you and Jharek:

Does Allah make no provision for what is essentially incidental to everyday life? I think that’s the big point that (name removed by moderator) made that you did not address.

If you did not willingly engage in contact with a man, but the man in question was not a Muslim and so did not know your code, then who can really be at fault?

And explaining things to him is fine, but there is also a point when, whether as a resident alien or a naturalized citizen in another country, that you have to try to strike some balance between your private, religious beliefs and the community that holds them and the wider world. I recognize that this is difficult, and not just for Muslims but for everyone (for me as a Christian this is also difficult, and now I am talking about life in my home country!), but it is what should be a huge priority if Muslims want to stop being thought of as the “others” and treated with suspicion and skepticism, and non-Muslims want to stop living in fear of their neighbors who most likely don’t have any bad intentions, just different customs, a different religion, different language, etc. This is this concept of pluralism that I am not sure is entirely understood either actively or passively by Muslims, or for that matter some Christians.

Of course if you want to educate people you will need to actually come to a Western country with a relatively open mind so that you too can be educated about why exactly they will find some of your requests and customs offensive or unreasonable. Education is not just a one way street, and frankly non-Muslims (non-Bangladeshis, non-women, non-anything that you are) don’t just exist to conform themselves to your way of life. I know, I know…would that it were so… 😛
 
I don’t shake hands with men.

🤷

I work in engineering–everyone in my group (i.e., under my supervisor) is a man. Everyone in my section (under my supervisor’s supervisor) is a man. In fact there are very few women in the office at all and almost all my work-related interpersonal interaction is with men.

So I cover–I don’t flirt with them or just shoot the breeze, I don’t shake hands

And at school–almost all men in my classes, mostly male professors (engineering as well). In fact, I’ve noticed that it’s easier as a Muslim because I do cover and don’t just chat up my classmates. I feel like I get more respect, strangely.

Just thought I’d point that out. I am a practicing Muslim and I have to interact with men on a daily (hourly) basis, so I do when the need arises, but I do so in a professional context while minding my own behavior.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I don’t shake hands with men.

🤷

I work in engineering–everyone in my group (i.e., under my supervisor) is a man. Everyone in my section (under my supervisor’s supervisor) is a man. In fact there are very few women in the office at all and almost all my work-related interpersonal interaction is with men.

So I cover–I don’t flirt with them or just shoot the breeze, I don’t shake hands

And at school–almost all men in my classes, mostly male professors (engineering as well). In fact, I’ve noticed that it’s easier as a Muslim because I do cover and don’t just chat up my classmates. I feel like I get more respect, strangely.

Just thought I’d point that out. I am a practicing Muslim and I have to interact with men on a daily (hourly) basis, so I do when the need arises, but I do so in a professional context while minding my own behavior.
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I would see this as a totally different issue. This would have more to do with the gender issue than religion. Would you not be the same way with Muslim men?
 
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