Grounds for annulment

[AnnulmentHelp]

Hi all,

I really need all the help and advice I can get on this difficult issue. I will give a brief background about our religious situation before addressing the marriage situation.

I was baptized a Catholic but left the Church and ended up becoming an Evangelical. I met my wife and her and I got married in an Anglican Church by our minister. Fast forward, I later became convinced Catholicism was in fact true and so reverted. My wife is now also receiving instruction and hopefully will be entering the Church this Pentecost. We have one child nearly 3 and another on the way.

Now the marriage situation:

The basic problem is that my wife has little to no interest in sex, she does not seem to desire that intimacy with me at all. I have to initiate relations 99.9% of the time and I usually have to ask, something along the lines of ‘can we have…’ or ‘do you want to have…’, or I might say ‘let’s have…’.

When we first met she could barely keep her hands off me, we managed to not go all the way but we did get pretty close’. As soon as we were married she doesn’t want to touch me and nearly all the time she wants it to be over and done with. We used to make out when we were dating, we never make out now and I don’t think we have once since we’ve been married.

There have been (extremely rare) occasions where she has enjoyed the act from the beginning but they have been due to either her watching porn to get in the mood first, or from pregnancy hormones, or less frequently her ovulation cycle. I cannot think of a single instance where simply her desire for me was what lead to intimacy.

Also of relevance, I do not think she is going to submit to the Catholic teaching on contraception/NFP after the birth of our next child and I strongly suspect she is going to use this as an excuse for us to abstain. She is using this lent as an excuse for me to abstain, but also because of morning sickness, but still, she seems to do everything else (housework etc…) fine.

I considered an annulment when we first got married but I thought the situation was improving but then later realised it was just the porn and pregnancy hormones that spiked her interest, very briefly I might add.

I feel completely shattered by all this and I am begging God for Wisdom on what to do. I mentioned this to a priest in confession and he gave me an annulment pamphlet, I didn’t tell him I was thinking of an annulment. To be honest, I would really rather avoid it as I don’t want to miss out on my kids growing up.

Should I just view this as my cross and suffer through this marriage? I did not think marriage was a suitable context for spiritual suffering but I guess it happens with some marriages.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, I do know my way around a woman’s body quite well and I’m not hideous or poorly endowed or anything like that. Sorry to be crude but I just thought I might pre-empt that before it came up. Neither my wife nor I were virgins when we married, we both had non-Christians pasts. This adds another dimension to my pain, I always find myself wondering, did she enjoy it with others and not with me? It’s really affecting me a lot, I strongly resent my wife now and I feel like just crawling into a hole and dying

 

[AnnulmentHelp]

Sorry, I forgot to ask the obvious question, is all this grounds for annulment? Keeping in mind her resistance to NFP.

Thanks for your help.

Also again, I would rather work things out if possible, but I don’t know if it is. I am also leaning towards staying in the marriage and suffering through it (for our children’s sake) even if an annulment is possible.

 

[JK8619]

I am not sure about an annulment, but I have a few thoughts to add.

The first thing I would suggest is that ask your wife directly if she can explain the reason for the changes. She may or may not know depending on the cause.

The pornography issue definitely needs to be addressed. The use of porn makes it impossible to have a completely healthy sexual relationship.

Stress, anxiety, depression, etc. may also be an issue. If you guys are fighting about anything that could cause an emotional state which may suppress sex drive. It sounds like you have young kids. That can be stressful. Maybe try to do some extra housework if your wife feels too busy doing chores and taking care of the kids.

There could be hormone issues. I’ve heard of women having either more or less of a sex drive when on the pill. There can be other causes for hormone problems too. Maybe she could talk to a doctor about it.

Whether you have grounds for an annulment or not, I would suggest sticking it out. Marriages are not easy. Everyone has difficulties at some point. I’ve been married for five years. There have been ups and downs. Whatever happens I’m always glad I didn’t give up. My wife and I have some issues communicating, but together we are working on it constantly.

Hope something here helps. I’m not a doctor of any kind, so I would suggest other sources for help. Maybe some sort of counseling whether its a psychologist or clergyman. I pray things get better.

JK

 

[Layp3rs0n]

I’m pretty sure that If you are a baptized Catholic and married in the Anglican church, the marriage should actually be void. Catholics must marry within the Catholic Church. For this reason you must not have the marital act as you are not married.

HOWEVER, I am not a canon lawyer. Check with a priest first. It is better, I think, to have your marriage convalidated in the Catholic Church.

 

[Anglewannabe]

To have an annulment, you need to prove there was an impediment before you married. You can not marry, not like the sex and then decide to have an annulment. If your wife refuses to use NFP, that is a sin but again not grounds for annulment.

Honestly, as a woman, I can totally understand your wife being turned off. The way you describe your relationship it appears you think your wife is an object for your pleasure. You are the one who wants to use NFP and then are concerned your wife will use it as a reason to not have sex

You are concerned she might have enjoyed it more with someone from her past yet don’t try to convince her you didn’t enjoy it more with someone from your past

I think you need to start thinking of her a bit more

Angie

 

[dconklin]

You list all of the problems you are having with her. Is she experiencing any problems with you? Someone once turned me on to a book called the 5 Love Languages. It is written by a Christian and helps the reader identify what their love language is and is best when a couple reads it at the same time so they can compare. When you realize what makes you feel loved and tell your mate/lover/spouse, they can show you love on your level. It is not until we feel loved that we can reciprocate the love.

 

[RPRPsych]

I think there are grounds for a “lack of form” annulment here, but you should consult a priest. As a Catholic, you are bound to marry sacramentally, in a Catholic church.

However, I would also agree with all the posters who state that married love is very much a two-way street. We’ve only heard your side of the story. There may be valid physical or psychological reasons why your wife has trouble with “the marital act”. And the use of pornography is an additional complication. Rather than throwing in the towel, why not try to see a (preferably Catholic) counselor, or discuss things openly? Remember, you made a choice to marry this woman outside the church. Don’t give up too easily. I shall pray for both of you.

 

[AnnulmentHelp]

To have an annulment, you need to prove there was an impediment before you married. You can not marry, not like the sex and then decide to have an annulment. If your wife refuses to use NFP, that is a sin but again not grounds for annulment.

Honestly, as a woman, I can totally understand your wife being turned off. The way you describe your relationship it appears you think your wife is an object for your pleasure. You are the one who wants to use NFP and then are concerned your wife will use it as a reason to not have sex

You are concerned she might have enjoyed it more with someone from her past yet don’t try to convince her you didn’t enjoy it more with someone from your past

I think you need to start thinking of her a bit more

Angie

No offence Angie, but you have no idea what you’re talking about, and I don’t appreciate the eye-rolling either.

If you read my post properly you would see that I don’t actually want an annulment, I want the situation to improve. We have kids and I don’t want to ruin our family, even though I feel I would not be at fault.

I would like you to show me where I have given the impression that I think of my wife as an object for pleasure? The issue is not that we don’t ever have relations, it’s that she’s not interested and most of the time we do it’s quite obvious to me that she’s doing it out of obligation, which is NOT what I want.

Is it wrong for me to want my wife to desire physical intimacy with me? Is that such an abnormal expectation for a husband to have?!

I don’t want to use NFP, I’ve become Catholic so in order not to commit mortal sin we have to use NFP, or is there some other method you know that I don’t? Please don’t say abstinence…

I’m not concerned she might have enjoyed it ‘more’ with someone from her past. I’m concerned that she might have enjoyed it at all with someone from her past. If she did with them, why not with me? I am her husband!

 

[1ke]

You need to talk to your priest about your situation. Being married outside the Catholic Church without a dispensation means your marriage is not currently valid. It would need convalidation or radical sanation. To do that, you would need to be able to give valid consent, I don’t think you can do that right now given that you are asking about a decree of nullity on totally separate grounds.

None of what you describe here, sex related, is really grounds for a decree of nullity. There would have to be something more to it than that. The night/day change in her behavior could indicate that such an issue existed at the time you married.

That is not to say this isn’t a serious issue, it is. Have you talked to your wife about this sudden change in her behavior? Have you directly asked her about this? Has she seen a doctor or a counselor? Does she want it to get better? Does she understand how this hurts you.

It is totally normal to desire your wife, want intimacy with her, and want her to desire you in return.

I agree that divorce will devastate your children. So, you do have a decision to make that needs to be made with your wife, with all the cards on the table, and with guidance of your pastor.

The decisions is not whether to seek a decree of nullity, you marriage isn’t valid right now. The decision is whether or not you two can give valid consent at this point going forward to make your marriage valid via convalidation.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Seems you have a get out of jail free card. You aren’t really married to begin with.

 

[AnnulmentHelp]

Just to clarify, my wife and I were both Protestants when we got married outside the Catholic Church. Does that make any difference? I was a baptized Catholic but considered myself Protestant.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Just to clarify, my wife and I were both Protestants when we got married outside the Catholic Church. Does that make any difference? I was a baptized Catholic but considered myself Protestant.

No, that makes no difference. You’re as free as you want to be.

 

[Joan_M]

Just to clarify, my wife and I were both Protestants when we got married outside the Catholic Church. Does that make any difference? I was a baptized Catholic but considered myself Protestant.

You were a baptized Catholic, so you were bound by the rules of the Catholic Church. The fact that you left the church means nothing. You can’t actually become “not a Catholic” once you were baptized, or received, into the Catholic Church. You may have become a lapsed Catholic, or a bad Catholic, but you were still a Catholic. You married in the Anglican church, so your marriage is not a valid sacramental marriage.

 

[AnnulmentHelp]

Wow, I did not know that. Now that I do know that does that mean I would be committing a sin if my wife and I have relations?

 

[Anglewannabe]

No offence Angie, but you have no idea what you’re talking about, and I don’t appreciate the eye-rolling either.

If you read my post properly you would see that I don’t actually want an annulment, I want the situation to improve. We have kids and I don’t want to ruin our family, even though I feel I would not be at fault.

I would like you to show me where I have given the impression that I think of my wife as an object for pleasure? The issue is not that we don’t ever have relations, it’s that she’s not interested and most of the time we do it’s quite obvious to me that she’s doing it out of obligation, which is NOT what I want.

Is it wrong for me to want my wife to desire physical intimacy with me? Is that such an abnormal expectation for a husband to have?!

I don’t want to use NFP, I’ve become Catholic so in order not to commit mortal sin we have to use NFP, or is there some other method you know that I don’t? Please don’t say abstinence…

I’m not concerned she might have enjoyed it ‘more’ with someone from her past. I’m concerned that she might have enjoyed it at all with someone from her past. If she did with them, why not with me? I am her husband!

I genuinely apologize if I have offended you. Out of fear of saying something that will hurt you again, I will not respond further

 

[1ke]

Just to clarify, my wife and I were both Protestants when we got married outside the Catholic Church. Does that make any difference? I was a baptized Catholic but considered myself Protestant.

It does not matter what you considered yourself at the time of your wedding. The reality is that since you were baptized into the Catholic Church, you were bound by the laws of the Catholic Church. The Church allows no exceptions to the marriage laws, therefore, you are not currently validly married.

Again, this can be rectified, but to do so requires that you both be able to give valid consent-- which seems doubtful at the present time. PLEASE talk to your wife about this sex issue, and please talk to your pastor about the marriage validity issue.

 

[1ke]

No, that makes no difference. You’re as free as you want to be.

Please refrain from posting on this thread if you cannot do so without rancor and sarcasm towards the subject of marriage and decrees of nullity. The OP has serious questions and issues, and deserves respect.

 

[AnnulmentHelp]

It does not matter what you considered yourself at the time of your wedding. The reality is that since you were baptized into the Catholic Church, you were bound by the laws of the Catholic Church. The Church allows no exceptions to the marriage laws, therefore, you are not currently validly married.

Again, this can be rectified, but to do so requires that you both be able to give valid consent-- which seems doubtful at the present time. PLEASE talk to your wife about this sex issue, and please talk to your pastor about the marriage validity issue.

Thanks for all your advice 1ke. I will talk to a priest about it, as for my wife, I’m waiting for the right time…