"Grow Old With Me" as a song for a Catholic wedding?

[Sarabande]

I was recently hired as a musician for a Catholic wedding at a parish I am not a part of and is in a different diocese than mine. The bride is not Catholic, groom is, but they were granted a full mass with the marriage ceremony. The couple met with the music director of the parish and she helped them choose the music for the wedding. Since it is not my diocese and because I have already signed my contract with the bride and groom, I will have to perform the music. I also have to work with what the director/organist/pianist can play. So although I had provided a repertoire list appropriate for a Catholic wedding mass, I’m at the mercy of the director with whom I’m playing. The following three were not on my repertoire list.

Within their list for the “liturgical music”, they chose “There is Love” (which I thought went the way of the 70s/80s, but I guess not - I mean the words “Rest assured this troubadour is acting on His part” are really corny. I never thought of God being a troubadour.)

They also something by Twila Paris. (I believe she is some sort of Christian pop singer based on her albums that I listened to on-line.) I really don’t know enough about Twila Paris’s music, so I can’t make an educated opinion on her music and lyrics. The lyrics of this particular song she sang seemed ok, even if the music is a bit too sentimental and treads the line of saccharine, but it appears to be a “religious” song . I was able to find music in a key that would be more suitable for how I sing - I’m a classical singer, not a pop singer. The bride is aware of that wants me to sing it in the way I was trained.

Then, they chose John Lennon’s “Grow Old With Me” as a meditation after Communion. Is this song actually supposed to be permitted for Catholic weddings? I know it’s performed a lot for weddings of other denominations, and I also know that it would not be permitted in my diocese. As much as I have always loved John Lennon and the Beatles, I just can’t see using that piece of music in a Catholic wedding mass, even if they have the words, “God bless our love”. It seems to be too secular and wouldn’t fit within the liturgy.

I ask this because almost all of my own liturgical repertoire usually come from actual masses composed throughout the centuries, sacred/religious hymns or sacred/religious text set to classical compositions. I’m not familiar with performing religious music that originally have a secular background in the genre of the writing itself. Also in my diocese and where I normally do weddings, we are not permitted to use the above music. Thanks.

 

[puzzleannie]

if it were me I would call the priest directly, but that is because I have such allergies to that kind of music (leftover from those of us who married in the era of bad pop music at weddings, including 2 you cite). You are a paid employee or contractor, so just sing the songs and rinse you mouth out with listerine when you are done, hopefully no one there will know you, and you don’t have to pass out business cards.

if you really want to take a stand, simply tell the bride or whoever is paying you, these are not appropriate songs for the marriage ceremony in church, you refuse to sing them, offer alternatives, and offer to sing them at the reception. it will probably cost you your fee, however. you could just say “they are not in my repertoire, don’t know them, don’t have the music, and feel absolutely sure I will be unable to locate the music in time for your wedding.”

 

[Phemie]

Within their list for the “liturgical music”, they chose “There is Love” (which I thought went the way of the 70s/80s, but I guess not - I mean the words “Rest assured this troubadour is acting on His part” are really corny. I never thought of God being a troubadour.)

“Rest assured this troubadour is acting on His part”. This is the singer referring to himself, not to God.
I had this at my wedding in '75, long before I knew better. There is a multi-page analysis of this song that made me realize, about 7 years ago, that it is totally inappropriate for the Catholic church.

I don’t think the other two would be appropriate either but you know that many pastors will bend over backwards to not “offend”, IOW many pastors need the noodle replaced with a spine.
.

 

[benedictgal]

Hey, Sarabande! Inasmuch as I am not a huge fan of the USCCB’s new document on music, there are some very specific guidelines for wedding music. Here is the link to the document:

usccb.org/liturgy/SingToTheLord.pdf

You will find that, although the document is rather deficient in many things, it actually does give some good direction as far as wedding music is concerned.

I believe that the music must be liturgically appropriate, meaning that it must be suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not secular. They could have the John Lennon song played at their reception, but, not at the Mass. Ditto for the Protestant pop song. The music director should know better, especially since the ceremony will be a Nuptial Mass.

I hope this helps.

 

[Sarabande]

…You are a paid employee or contractor, so just sing the songs and rinse you mouth out with listerine when you are done, hopefully no one there will know you, and you don’t have to pass out business cards.

Yes, I think I will have to do that. I’m technically not in any position to do anything since I’m not part of the parish nor the diocese for that matter. I’m a guest musician and an employee of the bride and groom. I’m hoping this is an older church so that I can sing from a loft in the back and I won’t be recognized. I’m wondering if I should speak with our diocese director of liturgy, though. If someone does recognize me and says something to him (he resides where I cantor and knows me), I hope that won’t look like the music was of my doing. He does know me enough to know that this would not be something I would freely choose.

if you really want to take a stand, simply tell the bride or whoever is paying you, these are not appropriate songs for the marriage ceremony in church, you refuse to sing them, offer alternatives, and offer to sing them at the reception. it will probably cost you your fee, however. you could just say “they are not in my repertoire, don’t know them, don’t have the music, and feel absolutely sure I will be unable to locate the music in time for your wedding.”

I’ve learned my lesson in my early 20s about stepping on the toes of music directors. The director was the one who gave the green light on that music. She also made it so that I couldn’t give any alternatives. Basically said that if I did not know a piece of music, she would sing them. With the tone of voice and wording that she gave in her email to me, I have a feeling she already has made an opinion of me based on my repertoire list. I guess I could tell her that I don’t feel comfortable with a couple of them, but then I’ll feel like that I’m not giving the bride and groom their money’s worth. I’ll have to think about it and pray over it some more. I can’t really say I don’t know the music, because I can read music, so I have no trouble learning it, but I could just say that my voice does not lend well to the genre/style.

 

[jrabs]

You can tell the couple that there is little wiggle room in the mass for secular music.
I am getting married in 3 months and THAT is exactly what my music director told me straight away.

 

[lizaanne]

We had to have our music approved by our priest prior to the wedding. The only “secular” song we had was for my processional - it was Twyla Paris’ - The Body of Christ (How Beautiful). All other songs were from the Gather book (I know, don’t everyone gag at once ).

Our recessional was The Gloria - because it is not used in a Nuptial Mass and I really wanted it, Father said I could use it as the recessional song.

Here are the lyrics:

How Beautiful Lyrics

How Beautiful the hands that served
The Wine and the Bread and the sons of the earth
How beautiful the feet that walked
The long dusty road and the hill to the cross
How Beautiful, how beautiful, how beautiful is the body of Christ

How Beautiful the heart that bled
That took all my sins and bore it instead
How beautiful the tender eyes
That choose to forgive and never despise
How beautiful, how beautiful, how beautiful is the body of Christ

And as He lay down His life
We offer this sacrifice
That we will live just as He died
Willing to pay the price
Willing to pay the price

How Beautiful the radiant bride
Who waits for her Groom with His light in her eyes
How Beautiful when humble hearts give
The fruit of pure love so that others may live
How beautiful, how beautiful, how beautiful is the body of Christ

How beautiful the feet that bring
The sound of good news and the love of the King
How Beautiful the hands that serve
The wine and the bread and the sons of the Earth
How Beautiful, how beautiful, how beautiful is the body of Christ

I would approach the priest and just ensure that he is ok with the music choices. If he is - the just do as was suggested with regard to the use of Listerine.

~Liza

 

[Sarabande]

You can tell the couple that there is little wiggle room in the mass for secular music.
I am getting married in 3 months and THAT is exactly what my music director told me straight away.

Actually, before they went to the music director of the parish, one of the first things I told them was that secular music wasn’t permitted for mass. So I provided them with my repertoire list of appropriate sacred/religious music for Catholic wedding mass. But I also told them to speak with their music director and never thought that a John Lennon song would be permitted for a mass.

And honestly, based on my repertoire and how I sing (they auditioned me before hiring me) it just seems weird that they would choose three songs that were totally out of my genre of singing. But that’s unfortunately the way of a hired musician.

 

[jrabs]

And honestly, based on my repertoire and how I sing (they auditioned me before hiring me) it just seems weird that they would choose three songs that were totally out of my genre of singing. But that’s unfortunately the way of a hired musician.

Man - guess you are in a touch spot. Sorry about that.

Wonder if they really discussed it with the music director?

 

[Sarabande]

Hey, Sarabande! Inasmuch as I am not a huge fan of the USCCB’s new document on music, there are some very specific guidelines for wedding music. Here is the link to the document:

usccb.org/liturgy/SingToTheLord.pdf

You will find that, although the document is rather deficient in many things, it actually does give some good direction as far as wedding music is concerned.

I believe that the music must be liturgically appropriate, meaning that it must be suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not secular. They could have the John Lennon song played at their reception, but, not at the Mass. Ditto for the Protestant pop song. The music director should know better, especially since the ceremony will be a Nuptial Mass.

I hope this helps.

Thank you, benedictgal! This helped a lot. I agree that the music director should know better.

 

[Sarabande]

Wonder if they really discussed it with the music director?

Yes, I believe they did as the director contacted me herself immediately after their meeting.

And BTW - Congrats on your wedding!!! I meant to congratulate in my other post. :extrahappy:

 

[jrabs]

Yes, I believe they did as the director contacted me herself immediately after their meeting.

And BTW - Congrats on your wedding!!! I meant to congratulate in my other post. :extrahappy:

Well, then you are still in a tough spot.

And thanks. We are both excited. Hey ya wanna sing in our wedding…only churchy songs out of the Gather book?

 

[Sarabande]

Well, then you are still in a tough spot.

And thanks. We are both excited. Hey ya wanna sing in our wedding…only churchy songs out of the Gather book?

hahah! Depends on how far the church is from me.

In all seriousness, though, yes, I think I’m still in a tough spot. There’s a fine line as to how to handle a situation like this especially when you are a guest hired musician.

 

[CarrieH]

And honestly, based on my repertoire and how I sing (they auditioned me before hiring me) it just seems weird that they would choose three songs that were totally out of my genre of singing. But that’s unfortunately the way of a hired musician.

BTDT…you have my sympathies. There’s nothing like a voice better suited to Verdi being forced to sing pop music, ugh! At least when I’m hired as a flutist, I don’t have to deal with questionable song lyrics. And gagging and snickering are more easily hidden behind an instrument than when singing.

Re: your other post and the “rest assured this troubador is acting on His part” line from that song, I always interpreted it that the guy singing the song was the troubador, not God? Doesn’t make the song any less awful, though. Why do we have to keep dredging up dreck from the '70’s? What’s next, polyester leisure suits coming back?! http://bestsmileys.com/toliot/13.gif

Hang in there, and good luck getting them to revise the song list.

 

[Sarabande]

BTDT…you have my sympathies. There’s nothing like a voice better suited to Verdi being forced to sing pop music, ugh!

Thank you! Thank you! I know you can totally feel where I’m coming from. You (in general) hire me knowing that I’m a classical singer, then you choose pop music. I’m a lyric mezzo and I give you repertoire that best suits my training and voice. Yes, I can sing the notes of pop music, but it will sound like a classical singer trying to sing pop. I don’t belt.

At least when I’m hired as a flutist, I don’t have to deal with questionable song lyrics. And gagging and snickering are more easily hidden behind an instrument than when singing.

hahaha! Yes!!! How true! Reminds me of one of the first few times I sang a prayer of farewell for the deceased. The text had everything in the male gender, so I had to quickly change it to the female. I accidently crossed out “himself” and placed “herself” because the “h” wasn’t capitalized, and it was “May Christ who called you, take you to himself.” I didn’t realize what I did, but the organist with me started laughing and told me afterwards what happened. I was so embarrassed, yet I had to laugh at myself. I still had to sing the recessional hymn and trying soooo hard not to laugh. I also did that once when I sang the alto harmony line of Danish Mass parts Christ Has Died and the Amen at a wedding.

Re: your other post and the “rest assured this troubador is acting on His part” line from that song, I always interpreted it that the guy singing the song was the troubador, not God? Doesn’t make the song any less awful, though.

Phemie mentioned the same thing. I didn’t look at it that way, but looking at the lyrics again, I believe you are both right. But as you said, it’s still cheesy either way.

Why do we have to keep dredging up dreck from the '70’s? What’s next, polyester leisure suits coming back?!

Well, we’re getting close. My 18 year old cousin and her friends loves to wear these styles that are reminiscent of the early 80s with a modern flare. I’m not that much older than her, but I couldn’t be caught dead in some of those styles. I’m always thankful I was a little girl in the 80s and didn’t have to spend my teen years then.

 

[Guitar]

And honestly, based on my repertoire and how I sing (they auditioned me before hiring me) it just seems weird that they would choose three songs that were totally out of my genre of singing. But that’s unfortunately the way of a hired musician.

Oh, that don’t worry folks none. A musician is a musician is a musician, didn’t you know? We’re forever having this discussion with wedding and reception customers.

And yeah, it’s all very well to tell couples what isn’t permitted for Mass but when you’re on someone else’s patch you can’t enforce anything that the locals won’t. The only fallback is, “sorry, I personally can’t/won’t sing that at a Mass - you were aware of my repertoire list when you booked me” and wear the loss of fee and the bad press. (In my own parish sometimes I’ve told couples what’s acceptable and the priests have then let them choose whatever and I’ve been in your position on my own turf, even.) But then again, that sort of bad press will probably just fend off customers you didn’t want anyway.

I’m another one in the “call it professional attendance, beat a hasty retreat then drown your sorrows” camp.

I think that some priests and directors don’t think it really matters that much and others know they’ll never see the couple again and nothing they say about the Mass will sink in so is it worth having the same contentious discussion for the zillionth time … take the fee and get rid of 'em. Of course that’s not right but I wonder if that isn’t the case sometimes.

Weddings in the last few years for me have become a grind of couples requesting inappropriate music (that usually sits ill with the type of musicians they say they want, into the bargain), me explaining this (to their obvious displeasure) and suggesting what I think will work instead, then a tedious process of steering a middle path between the two. I realised one day I was giving up my Saturdays, having worked hard Mon-Fri and then practiced and written arrangements after I got home, to play music I didn’t want to play for people who didn’t want to hear it. Why am I doing this?!!? So I basically quit and now only play for people I know or on recommendations from priest friends. I guess that’s the up-side of having a day job, which thankfully now pays enough that I don’t depend on the musical income so much anymore.

BTW, have you ever been asked for Steven Curtis Chapman’s “I Will Be Here”?

 

[Guitar]

I’m wondering if I should speak with our diocese director of liturgy, though. If someone does recognize me and says something to him (he resides where I cantor and knows me), I hope that won’t look like the music was of my doing. He does know me enough to know that this would not be something I would freely choose.

I’ve learned my lesson in my early 20s about stepping on the toes of music directors. The director was the one who gave the green light on that music. She also made it so that I couldn’t give any alternatives. Basically said that if I did not know a piece of music, she would sing them. With the tone of voice and wording that she gave in her email to me, I have a feeling she already has made an opinion of me based on my repertoire list. I guess I could tell her that I don’t feel comfortable with a couple of them, but then I’ll feel like that I’m not giving the bride and groom their money’s worth. I’ll have to think about it and pray over it some more. I can’t really say I don’t know the music, because I can read music, so I have no trouble learning it, but I could just say that my voice does not lend well to the genre/style.

If your musical colleagues are anything like mine, they will quite understand the situation you are in and will have been in it themselves many times, at least in their early days.

The only professional church musicians I know who haven’t BTDT are the occasional elitist snobs for whom music does not serve God, music is God and they’ve never given a thought to how many they’ve wounded with their blunt dismissiveness and face-pulling precious fainting fits along the way. I think we’ve had that discussion before - you only need one to give many professional and classical musicians an undeserved bad name. Sounds like this director a) is maybe a bit insecure and needing to let you know she’s in charge thanks very much and b) possibly has met one or two of these before and is (unfairly) wondering from your repertoire list whether you’re another. (To be honest, I personally have never accompanied a trained singer who said, “I don’t feel comfortable singing in this style” as you have, it’s always been, “this music is garbage, I wouldnt be seen dead singing rubbish like this” and whether or not it’s true, it’s not the most charitable of language and just reinforces the stereotypes.)

:console:

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I would bypass the musical director and tell the couple directly that the songs that they have chosen are not in your vocal range and are not appropriate for the Mass. They hired you based off of your audition and your repertoire. While they are paying you, you still have a say in what you perform.

 

[Sarabande]

Oh, that don’t worry folks none. A musician is a musician is a musician, didn’t you know?

Oh, yes, I know it only too well.

…The only fallback is, “sorry, I personally can’t/won’t sing that at a Mass - you were aware of my repertoire list when you booked me” and wear the loss of fee and the bad press.

Exactly. I’ve been working towards making my living solely as a musician, so I can’t afford to lose a fee. Also, this couple hired me through a site which publishes all client feedback based on talent and professionalism. So far, my feedback has been outstanding with past clients, so I don’t want my overall rating to fall.

(In my own parish sometimes I’ve told couples what’s acceptable and the priests have then let them choose whatever and I’ve been in your position on my own turf, even.)

Ugh!!! I’m so sorry about that. That’s even harder. The priests at my parish are pretty “orthodox”, plus one of the priests there is our diocese director of liturgy, as I mentioned in a previous post. So, we pretty much follow everything to the book as best as we can unless someone above says otherwise.

I’m another one in the “call it professional attendance, beat a hasty retreat then drown your sorrows” camp.

Yes, my music director and other colleagues who have been burned many times as well call it, “Take the money and run.”

I think that some priests and directors don’t think it really matters that much and others know they’ll never see the couple again and nothing they say about the Mass will sink in so is it worth having the same contentious discussion for the zillionth time … take the fee and get rid of 'em. Of course that’s not right but I wonder if that isn’t the case sometimes.

Very sad, indeed. I’ve sometimes wondered that myself as well.

BTW, have you ever been asked for Steven Curtis Chapman’s “I Will Be Here”?

No, but I have been asked to sing other things similar to it, which I’ve either replied that it didn’t suit my voice (which it didn’t) and the couple will choose something else based on what I recommended (Catholic and non-Catholic weddings) or I’ve turned down jobs if the potential client asks specifically for the singer to perform the said song.

In this case, my hands are tied. Contract was signed months ago and the director has made it so that there would be no room for an alternative. So, it is unfortunately a case of “Take the money and run and down a glass of listerene with my friends/colleagues who can sympathise.”

 

[Sarabande]

(To be honest, I personally have never accompanied a trained singer who said, “I don’t feel comfortable singing in this style” as you have, it’s always been, “this music is garbage, I wouldnt be seen dead singing rubbish like this” and whether or not it’s true, it’s not the most charitable of language and just reinforces the stereotypes.)

Oh… yeah. There have been plenty of pieces that I sung which were truly just bits of garbage. But I would never say it to the person who chose the music, especially if I’m being paid to perform it. Now, I have been guilty of commiserating with my fellow colleagues who also had to perform the same piece with me and also couldn’t stand it. BUT we always play it to the best that we can bring out of it. We don’t sabotage the music, as I know some colleagues have done, which I don’t think is right either.

:console:

Thanks for that. Right back at ya!